GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

Rxke · 2004-07-25 05:19:58

Most scientists thinking about terraforming Mars, or growing food there, talk about GMing existing plants, organisms from Earth.

But, given the protests you see against GM crops on Earth, what will te implications be? A total ban for anything coming from Mars, it might contain live spores etc...

Could GM pose a serious risk for life on Earth as we know it? GMing cyanobacteria(say) to grow faster in harsh conditions might give those organisms a serious advantage if they ever got 'spilled' on the much more hospitable Earth, for instance.

Revenge of the killer weeds from Mars?

BWhite · 2004-07-25 17:22:01

Gene-mod http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov/docs/high … .pdf]sweet potato - google "asp-1 sweet potato" and the 2nd link comes http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=179]here for "Booze of the Red Planet"

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n … ato]Google link for those who do not believe NewMars is the 2nd hit for "asp-1 sweet potato"

Dook · 2004-07-25 21:43:03

Food crops can and are genetically engineered to provide more nutrition and better withstand insects and weather. The drawback is that by producing any crop that is entirelly genetically identical can be dangerous if a virus happens to mutate and affect that species. The entire crop can be lost. But the benefits are real and may be the key to eliminating malnutrition in the world.

Another problem is that some African nations will not give donated genetically engineered food to their people. They simply pile it in warehouses and let it waste away because they say they do not have the scientific ability to determine whether it will harm their people. So they let their populace starve instead.

RobS · 2004-07-25 23:04:02

Genetic modification has huge potential to improve agriculture, but also could endanger many native species. As near as I can tell, GM is not dangerous to human health, though it could be if one modified an important crop to make a poison.

Imagine this scenario: fifty years from now you buy a house and you want to plant a tree in the front yard. You have various choices. One is a maple that grows to full adult height in ten years instead of fifty and this is engineered to produce apples and cashews, but the flowers can look and smell like lilacs. An interesting tree; very pretty and useful. But if it gets loose, because it can grow five times faster than native species, it could crowd them out pretty fast.

On Mars one won't have to worry about destroying a native ecology, not inside domes anyway. So genetic modification of species would be a good thing, especially if you can modify species for half as much sunlight as on Earth. It might even be possible to genetically modify a "cactus" to live outside.

-- RobS

Commodore · 2004-07-26 11:09:46

How much would natural mutation be affected by the additional radiation?

RobS · 2004-07-26 19:30:06

We'd need the advice of an expert about this. I remember in the 1960s school kids could buy radiation-zapped seeds. They were put under a lot more radiation exposure than the surface of Mars. I planted a pack and the results all looked normal to me.

-- RobS

Commodore · 2004-07-26 20:30:22

We'd need the advice of an expert about this. I remember in the 1960s school kids could buy radiation-zapped seeds. They were put under a lot more radiation exposure than the surface of Mars. I planted a pack and the results all looked normal to me.
-- RobS

It may take a couple generations. Hopefully the ones on Mars won't have to worry about the lawn mower. :;):

Rxke · 2004-07-27 02:14:03

Anyone remember the MPML (no, that was not it... LDEF, i think, Long Duration Exposure Facility?) anyhow, that big-size of a bus thing STS launched into space, packed with a lot of stuff, to check how it reacted to vacuum, radiation, solar wind etc.?

They had tomato seeds and other seeds, wich they then brought back to Earth looooong after initially planned (the Challenger disaster and subsequent grounding of the fleet)

Only a very very small number of the seeds sprouted into 'freak-plants' and the other seeds, some kind of popular flower, very expensive, small seeds, that are more expensive than gold by weight, BTW, actually turned out to give BETTER flowers! (Business opportunity!)

So seeds seem to be relatively robust. Of course, seeds are not metabolising that much, heh...

Old National Geographic had good coverage of the case. (Can't seem to find it back, though)

MarsDog · 2004-07-27 03:20:21

Interesting from http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleid. … co-founder of Greenpeace

Also: http://www.badmovies.org/multimedia/mov … mpg]Killer Tomatoes

GraemeSkinner · 2004-07-27 05:01:45

Genetic modification has huge potential to improve agriculture, but also could endanger many native species. As near as I can tell, GM is not dangerous to human health, though it could be if one modified an important crop to make a poison.

What about the chance of developing antibiotic resistance from GM foods/seeds? That would be one of my concerns in taking GM stuff to Mars, I'd vote for a GM Free Mars.

Graeme

Rxke · 2004-07-27 05:10:13

The 'Mars-GM' will be totally different than the 'Earth-GM,' though.

When we now have these GM-Roundup-resistant crops from Monsanto (wich i do not like, for you still use broad-scale weedkillers, wich kill everything but the foodcrops, bah. )

The Mars-GM will likely be more geared towards terraforming: splice salt-loving characteristics from slow-growing lichen A into lichen B etc. I think in the greenhouses, with the treated soil, we'll grow pretty mundane stuff...

Are they GMming plants to produce antibiotics?

PS: As long as those killer tomatoes only affect off-road police-cars, we're safe!

GraemeSkinner · 2004-07-27 05:17:27

Are they GMming plants to produce antibiotics?

Not sure about this, but they are GMming drugs for trial use (with side effects that have been worse than the original condition it was treating). Even if they use GM for terraforming plants there could be a chance for contamination of food plants, just think if the gene marker used on a GM-lichen triggered a cancer gene in food plants, or a resistance to antibiotics.

Graeme

Rxke · 2004-07-27 06:57:11

Confused.

you mean carcicogen-producing plants or plants getting cancer, likewise: plants becoming resistant to antibiotics or humans/pests whatever eating them becoming resistant?

Either way, i think that's unlikely, if you stick within the same 'family.'
Now they splice genes from animals in plants etc, that's errr... scary/weird, but if you take 2 strains of lichen, and 'mix' them, i don't see what's wrong with that, it's basically the same as crossbreeding, but faster.

Of course, if you keep mixing, you only have hybrid strains, in the end, so where do you draw the 'family-lines'

Tricky subject, that's why i started it (grin)

Oh, BTW, I'm amazed nobody has started yelling 'ecowhackies,' yet

GraemeSkinner · 2004-07-27 14:15:45

you mean carcicogen-producing plants or plants getting cancer, likewise: plants becoming resistant to antibiotics or humans/pests whatever eating them becoming resistant?
Either way, i think that's unlikely, if you stick within the same 'family.'
Now they splice genes from animals in plants etc, that's errr... scary/weird, but if you take 2 strains of lichen, and 'mix' them, i don't see what's wrong with that, it's basically the same as crossbreeding, but faster.
Of course, if you keep mixing, you only have hybrid strains, in the end, so where do you draw the 'family-lines'
Tricky subject, that's why i started it (grin)
Oh, BTW, I'm amazed nobody has started yelling 'ecowhackies,' yet

Antibiotic resistance is possible from eating GM Maize for one example (not that they are about to start growing on Mars for a while ). A *fairly* recent GM Medical trial resulted in 2 of the 10 trial subjects developing cancer. I've just completed a brief study of the subject and can forward some info if you like Rxke.

Graeme

Edit http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/1 … p/]Medical trial link

http://www.naturlovspartiet.dk/Gensplej … .html]Link to bit of info on antibiotic resitance from B.t. Maize

Rxke · 2004-07-27 15:01:22

Boy.
"Not only has the gene for ampicillin resistance been introduced into the Maximizer and NatureGard maize varieties, but in these maize varieties, the ampicillin resistance gene is still linked to bacterial regulatory sequences, called promoter sequences."

Now that's why i don't like it. Why do such a thing? It's the same as 'bombarding' livestock with penicillins, regardles they're healthy or sick. Idiotic, short-term thinking.

'Bout the gene-therapy: yes, but that's an old case but a very errr... important one. They all but stopped trials after that. IIRC, they now know how it happened, and have better methods. Of course, those people in the trials had virtually no immunity self-defence to begin with, so... Every trigger was bound to set off something awful.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-07-28 01:36:25

Boy.
"Not only has the gene for ampicillin resistance been introduced into the Maximizer and NatureGard maize varieties, but in these maize varieties, the ampicillin resistance gene is still linked to bacterial regulatory sequences, called promoter sequences."
Now that's why i don't like it. Why do such a thing? It's the same as 'bombarding' livestock with penicillins, regardles they're healthy or sick. Idiotic, short-term thinking.
'Bout the gene-therapy: yes, but that's an old case but a very errr... important one. They all but stopped trials after that. IIRC, they now know how it happened, and have better methods. Of course, those people in the trials had virtually no immunity self-defence to begin with, so... Every trigger was bound to set off something awful.

The antibiotic resistance gene is not 'switched on' when inserted as a marker gene into B.t Maize (I'm simplifying sorry) but through a roundabout route - after consumption/digestion it can become active, causing antibiotic resistance.
Yes it was a old case for the gene-therapy, but its fairly important that we understand the risks involved with modifying things genetically. Just because they know what went wrong this time does not mean that they have overcome all the problems in one go.
Carrying something to Mars that could cause more problems than it solves would be a very poor idea to say the least. Food plantations on Mars would likely be grown in a closed environment, with more chance of cross pollination etc., and when the crew come back to Earth they'll have to be very *clean* so as not to carry back anything that was designed genetically for Mars.

Graeme

Rxke · 2004-07-28 02:48:50

The antibiotic resistance gene is not 'switched on' when inserted as a marker gene into B.t Maize (I'm simplifying sorry) but through a roundabout route - after consumption/digestion it can become active, causing antibiotic resistance.

Yes, I omitted that from the article. Seemed obvious (gutbacteria 'solliciting' exraneous gene-sequences)(My English is bad today)

when the crew come back to Earth they'll have to be very *clean* so as not to carry back anything that was designed genetically for Mars.

That was my initial point. We could GM stuff, that then turns out to work good on Mars, but 'too good' on Earth...

SpaceNut · 2015-11-26 15:31:25

Fixed shifting issues and artifacts...

Like I said in the free chat topic the jury is out on genetic modified crops still insufficient data to say one way or the other....

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-04 12:29:59

San Francisco startup ‘Living Carbon’ intends to plant millions of genetically modified trees to help slow climate change.

https://qz.com/living-carbon-geneticall … 1850163716

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#1 2004-07-25 05:19:58

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#2 2004-07-25 17:22:01

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#3 2004-07-25 21:43:03

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#4 2004-07-25 23:04:02

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#5 2004-07-26 11:09:46

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#6 2004-07-26 19:30:06

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#7 2004-07-26 20:30:22

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#8 2004-07-27 02:14:03

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#9 2004-07-27 03:20:21

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#10 2004-07-27 05:01:45

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#11 2004-07-27 05:10:13

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#12 2004-07-27 05:17:27

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#13 2004-07-27 06:57:11

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#14 2004-07-27 14:15:45

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#15 2004-07-27 15:01:22

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#16 2004-07-28 01:36:25

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#17 2004-07-28 02:48:50

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#18 2015-11-26 15:31:25

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

#19 2023-03-04 12:29:59

Re: GM-ing stuff for Mars - Implications for Earth?

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