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#1 2018-07-07 11:41:29

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 357

China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

China claims progress in new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings
by Andrew Jones — July 6, 2018
Space News

China is claiming progress on a number of reentry and landing technologies for human spaceflight and Mars missions, underlining apparently significant plans for deep space exploration.

The Beijing Institute of Space Mechanics and Electronics (BISME) announced in May that it had performed an airdrop test of a parachute for two new-generation crewed spacecraft, which will be larger successors to the current Shenzhou capsules. The test was reported to have verified the strength and function of the parachute.

One-879x485.jpg

An image accompanying a Chinese Academy of Space Technology announcement of a successful airdrop parachute test in April. Credit: CAST

The new-generation crewed spacecraft, according to previous announcements from the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, will come in two variations – a 20- metric ton version for lunar missions, and a 14-metric-ton version for potential Mars and deep space exploration.

Zhang Bainan, a chief engineer at the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST) which is developing the spacecraft and owns BISME, said in March that the crew capsule will be able to hold four to six astronauts. The spacecraft design will be modularized, allowing adaptation to the specifics of a mission profile.

China carried out the test of a scale return capsule for the new crewed spacecraft in 2016 with the test flight of the Long March 7 rocket, successfully returning the spacecraft to a site in Inner Mongolia. The craft had a flat top and sloped sides, unlike the bell-shaped Shenzhou.

In June 2019, the variant of the Long March 5 rocket for low Earth orbit launches, the Long March 5B, will lift off for the first time from the Wenchang Space Launch Center on Hainan island carrying another test spacecraft for the project.

No indication has been given as to what will be tested next year, but a larger version of the 2016 test capsule could fly if progress on the parachute has been significant.

Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan, head of the Nuclear and Space Policy Initiative at the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi, India, says testing parachutes could be for any number of Chinese missions — a crewed space capsule, lunar or Mars missions.

“China has announced its plans for lunar landings, Mars probe and a space shuttle. China plans for multiple Mars missions including to orbit and land in the first instance and a second probe to bring back samples from the red planet. Manned lunar missions are also very much on the Chinese radar,” Rajagopalan says.

Parachute testing is also important in the context of developing reusable rocket technologies, which the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT) recently announced it was pursuing, Rajagopalan adds.

Targeting Mars

BISME followed this announcement with two more, claiming a breakthrough with tests of a vented airbag system for soft-landing spacecraft, and Inflatable Reentry and Descent Technology (IRDT), similar to the Low-Density Supersonic Decelerator tested by NASA which aims to increase the mass of payloads that can be landed on Mars.

The saucer-shaped IRDT craft aims to integrate the functions thermal protection, deceleration, and landing systems and allow more massive craft to land.

China is claiming progress on a number of reentry and landing technologies for human spaceflight and Mars missions, underlining apparently significant plans for deep space exploration. Credit: CAST
China is claiming progress on a number of reentry and landing technologies for human spaceflight and Mars missions, underlining apparently significant plans for deep space exploration. Credit: CAST

Pang Zhihao, a scientist with CAST, told the Chinese language Science and Technology Daily that IRDT could allow craft with a mass of up to 15 metric tons to soft-land on Mars.

“This looks like China is pumping a lot of effort and money into Mars entry descent and landing systems to land significant payloads, possibly people,” says Alex Ellery, a professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario.

However, some of these developments are in the early stages. From images of the airbag tests, Ellery assesses that it, “looks like they are doing a simple drop test—at early stages of design—of the airbags.”

Commenting on an image released by CAST, Ellery says the IRDT system, “looks rather fragile and tiny in comparison with the bushes – they are designed for large payloads.

“One of the problems the Europeans had in testing this technology over a decade ago was that large IRDT systems can be unstable due to unequal internal pressurization—which is high to impart sufficient rigidity—in a large system.

“It’s a very promising technology if it can be made to work but the picture reveals something tiny which would not tackle the issue,” Ellery continues. While the evidence of progress being made is lacking, the announcements do have some importance.

“I am very skeptical about the pictures – they are staged in such a way that they do not indicate that the Chinese have tackled these technologies seriously yet,” Ellery says. He adds however that the releases indicate that these are technologies that China will be tackling as a matter of priority and could soon lead to see major progress.

The Science article also stated that China plans to launch its first spacecraft using the IRDT technology in 2019.

http://spacenews.com/china-claims-progr … -landings/

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#2 2020-11-23 15:39:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

China's manned presence on orbit must be accounted for in a peaceful steps to going beyond for man to end its wars on its surface or its going to continue long after we are all gone....

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#3 2021-05-15 15:49:44

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

The sonic passenger Jet cost France and Britain money, the Russian "Concordski" didnt fly much a financial failure, a hypersonic shuttle why would they need it? If its about commerical airlines, with Covid then has air travel not been hit with the global Corona lockdowns.

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#4 2021-05-22 14:47:16

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

'Lucas and Babin want assurances NASA won't step back from planetary exploration as it increases $ for earth science, esp  at a time when China is making great strides.'
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/statu … 8490938368

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#5 2022-06-13 07:17:48

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

Space Solar Power Systems (SSPS).

in Chinese language
https://share.api.weibo.cn/share/312010 … 52807.html

Automated Cargo
https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/statu … 2195107841

China Rocket states that progress on key tests for the Jielong-3 four-stage solid rocket has been made.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1535332036378083328

China has released a new comprehensive GeologicMapoftheMoon to a scale of 1:2,500,000, the most detailed to date.
https://twitter.com/wulei2020/status/15 … 8781249537

Test ignition of YF100K 120t LOX-Kerosene rocket engine. YF100K is planned to be used in the upcoming rocket series (921/CZ5DY) for crewed & lunar landing missions.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 1623760897

Yangwang telescopes are coming!
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/statu … 4823650304

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#6 2022-06-30 05:35:10

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

Chinese orbiter Tianwen 1 completes its scientific mission on Mars

https://china-underground.com/2022/06/2 … s-mission/

Detailed Photos of Mars Captured by China’s Tianwen-1 Probe

https://petapixel.com/2022/06/29/detail … n-1-probe/

The uncrewed Chinese spacecraft sent back visuals of various locations of Mars, including its south pole, after it circled the planet more than 1,300 times since early last year

Nuclear-powered 2030 mission to Neptune

https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/29/ … r_neptune/

China aims to construct first Space Solar Power Station in 2028

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-06-22/C … index.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-30 05:38:16)

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#7 2022-06-30 06:46:42

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,008

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

For Mars_B4_Moon re #6

Thanks for all the links you provided.

However! Thanks in particular for the report on Chinese achievements in building an end-to-end ground simulator of a complete SPS system.

The writer of the article did reasonably well in composing English, but it seems clear (to me at least) the writing was done by a native Chinese, so the translation is understandably a bit rough.

What I ** did ** appreciate was the care taken to acknowledge previous work done in this field, including that of rival Japan.

A detail missing from the article was the wavelength of microwave to be used.  If you run across another article about this work, please look for that detail.

If memory serves (and if nothing has changed) I ** think ** the US has reserved a block of spectrum for SPS.

However, if the SPS being built by China is in geosynchronous orbit over China, the US regulations may not apply.

The article mentions gigawatt capability as a stretch goal.  That would certainly be impressive.

it seems to me that if a Nation builds an SPS, and then begins to depend upon it, that Nation would be incentivized to support peaceful uses of near Earth orbits.

(th)

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#8 2022-07-29 04:21:45

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

New Chinese rocket makes debut flight

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/New_ … t_999.html

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#9 2022-07-29 12:30:59

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,952
Website

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

As I have often pointed out (and few choose to believe),  there is nothing at all wrong with using solid rockets to launch for orbit.  You are dealing with a lower Isp,  but also with substantially higher frontal thrust density.  And all (I do mean ALL) modern ICBM's are 2 to 4 stage solids.  There is a REALLY good reason for that,  too!

The old Vought "Scout" was a 4-stage solid a bit smaller than a Minuteman ICBM,  used for a satellite launcher from 1960 to about 1990 or thereabouts.  They had one go astray out of 4 attempts during flight test back in 1960,  then for 3 decades,  never another problem!  That's some track record!  I worked on advanced and one-off configurations for "Scout" in 1974. 

And by the way,  there were a lot of O-ring joints in those motors,  for the forward heads and the nozzle assemblies.  Not a single one of those was anything other than a single O-ring.  Same for the ICBM fleet.  And the SLBM fleet.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2022-07-29 12:33:53)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#10 2022-07-29 14:44:21

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 6,228

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

GW,

What about a solid hybrid booster using LOX extracted from the Martian atmosphere?

We could send a functionally inert "rocket" that only contains a shelf-stable fuel like paraffin wax, then collect the oxidizer over time.  When the samples are collected and ready for return, we add the oxidizer and then have a solid rocket that can throttle its output.  Maybe it's not absolutely ideal, but if we can demonstrate the use of ISRU at a small scale to return samples, then perhaps we have the makings of a more significant ISRU capability for human colonization.

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#11 2022-08-08 15:22:42

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

Not the first Robot or Arm, there were ideas for Skylab and MIR, Dextre by MDA Ltd, there is European Robotic Arm ERA, Strela Russian crane, Kibo and one of the most famous Canada-Arm

but the Chinese Robot Arm is very unique

'Wentian's small mechanical arm completes in-orbit tests'
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Went … s_999.html
'The small arm can also be held with the large arm to form a combined arm that is capable of performing extravehicular operations with greater accuracy at a larger range.'

A new robotic arm carried by Wentian Laboratory Cabin Module

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k21_XU8goCs

CNSA Watcher - Archives

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-08 15:28:06)

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#12 2022-08-09 14:35:06

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

The Rise of China and the Global Space Race

https://spacechannel.com/news-update-th … pace-race/

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#13 2022-08-09 15:00:05

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,008

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

For kbd512 .... just found this while catching up with the topic.

I think this idea is first rate.  It reduces the problem of InSitu extraction to splitting CO2 and keeping the Oxygen cool.

Best wishes for success with this!

kbd512 wrote:

GW,

What about a solid hybrid booster using LOX extracted from the Martian atmosphere?

We could send a functionally inert "rocket" that only contains a shelf-stable fuel like paraffin wax, then collect the oxidizer over time.  When the samples are collected and ready for return, we add the oxidizer and then have a solid rocket that can throttle its output.  Maybe it's not absolutely ideal, but if we can demonstrate the use of ISRU at a small scale to return samples, then perhaps we have the makings of a more significant ISRU capability for human colonization.

(th)

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#14 2022-09-01 01:00:22

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

NASA and China are eyeing the same landing sites near the lunar south pole

https://spacenews.com/nasa-and-china-ar … outh-pole/

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#15 2022-09-13 06:45:51

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

China plans more moon missions after finding new lunar mineral

https://www.mining.com/web/china-plans- … r-mineral/

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#16 2022-09-25 06:37:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

Chinese astronauts go on four-hour spacewalk from new station
https://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-sci … on/article

Tianwen series deep space missions,

Weibo link mirrored

https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/statu … 2171081730
Tianwen-2, 3, 4 and Neptune system mission from the up bottom.


CNSA’s Mars sample return mission. Picture:
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 6155670528


'China is calling for international cooperation over Tianwen series mission'
https://twitter.com/wulei2020/status/15 … 0535089154

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#17 2022-10-03 09:14:59

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

A new image of the surface of Mars has revealed the planet may have experienced episodic flooding millions of years ago
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech … veals.html

Harvest in space. Planting and more experiments conducted by astronauts in Tiangong Space Station (CSS)
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 9160949762

9 engines that CASC plans to develop in 2021~28
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/statu … 0293448706
200t FFSC metholox
500t staged kerolox
220t staged hydrolox
360t staged kerolox
High-thrust staged hypergolic
85t gas-generator kerolox
80t gas-generator metholox
8t staged hypergolic
25t expander hydrolox

China has started selecting the 4th batch of taikonaut candidates.
https://twitter.com/wulei2020/status/15 … 4314451968
Between 12 and 14 candidates will be chosen, including 7 to 8 pilots, 2 payload experts &some engineers.For the first time, the posts of payload experts are also open to applicants from HongKong and Macao SARs

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#18 2022-10-05 04:40:50

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: China's new landing technology for crewed spacecraft, Mars landings

Previous rocket launches and how to recognize them, new and old generations. Podcast - Dongfang Hour. The radio vid broadcasts can be found on player.fm or apple podcats and other websites.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zdfjik5YG2I

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