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#51 2022-06-13 12:43:59

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Video: Gaia data release 3: exploring our multidimensional Milky Way

https://phys.org/news/2022-06-video-gai … milky.html

Starquakes and star DNA: Why the ESA's giant data dump is huge for astronomy
https://interestingengineering.com/star … -astronomy

Gaia Data Release 3: New space data serves as 'complete step change' in understanding of our Universe
https://sciencex.com/wire-news/41658383 … chang.html

Data reveals a 'super Jupiter' companion

Observations of exoplanets orbiting white dwarfs is notoriously difficult. White dwarfs are the core remnant of stars not massive enough to become a black hole or neutron star.

However, by analysing the motion of the metal-rich white dwarf WD 0141-675 and noting a 'wobble' in its orbit, researchers inferred the existence of a companion object with a mass around nine times that of Jupiter. Too small to be a star, this must be an exoplanet.

This 'super Jupiter' is only the third known exoplanet to orbit a white dwarf, and makes WD 0141-675 the closest white dwarf to Earth to host a planet.

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#52 2022-07-04 10:23:07

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

NASA Rockets Launch from Australia to Seek Habitable Star Conditions

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 … conditions

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#53 2022-07-12 17:04:28

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

James Webb Space Telescope images: Dying stars, distant galaxies and water on an exoplanet

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/james … exoplanet/

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#54 2022-07-12 19:10:26

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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Sure, would like to see some near field views of stars much closer to see if the lensing clouds the planets from view.

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#55 2022-07-26 05:49:08

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

3,794 possible systems found

Over 5,000 Worlds and still nothing like Earth?

One of the smallest found Kepler-37 e a terrestrial exoplanet that orbits a G-type star, mass is 0.0275 Earths, it takes 51.2 days to complete one orbit of its star, and is 0.246 AU from its star.

Star-mapping Gaia spacecraft spots a pair of Jupiter-like planets
https://www.space.com/gaia-star-spacecr … en-planets

more alien worlds unlike our own

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-26 05:52:37)

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#56 2022-07-30 18:15:24

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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Scientists discover "first of its kind" triple star system

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/30/space- … -astronomy

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#57 2022-08-08 07:11:00

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

A cosmic tango points to a violent and chaotic past for distant exoplanet
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/A_co … t_999.html
If you close your eyes and imagine a system of planets orbiting a distant star, what do you see?

For most people, such thoughts conjure up systems that mirror the Solar System: planets orbiting a host star on near-circular orbits - rocky planets closer in, and giants such as Jupiter in the icy depths.
However, the more we study the cosmos, the more we begin to realise planetary systems like our own might be more of an exception than a rule.
Imagine a system with one gaseous planet, a little larger than Saturn, skimming the surface of its host star on an extremely fast orbit. It's hellishly hot and glows a dull red, baking in stellar radiation.
Then imagine another giant planet farther out, larger than Jupiter, moving on a distant and highly elongated orbit which makes it look more like a comet than a traditional planet.
It doesn't sound much like home, does it? Yet that's what we found.

Introducing the HD83443 planetary system
The story of the HD83443 system begins in the late 20th century, when astronomers began obsessively observing stars similar to the Sun. They were looking for evidence of those stars wobbling back and forth under the influence of unseen planetary companions.

Using the 3.9 metre Anglo-Australian Telescope at the Siding Spring Observatory near Coonabarabran, researchers discovered a planet orbiting the star HD83443. This planet, HD83443b, was as massive as the gas giants Saturn and Jupiter.
But that's where the similarities ended. HD83443b is a "hot Jupiter": a giant gas planet skimming the surface of its host star (which is a little smaller and cooler than the Sun), and completing each lap in less than three Earth days!

For two decades since its discovery, we have continued to monitor the HD83443's movements. In recent years, we've been conducting this work at the University of Southern Queensland's Mt Kent Observatory.

By combining our observations with others, we discovered a strange new planet in the system, which we describe in a paper published last month.

This world, HD83443c, takes more than 22 years to orbit its host star, and is some 200 times more distant than its hellish sibling. Since HD83443c's "year" is so long, we needed more than two decades of observations to confirm its existence - by tracking a single lap around its host star.

But what's really unusual is the eccentricity of its orbit. While the planets in the Solar System follow near-circular orbits, HD83443c follows a much more elongated path reminiscent of comets in our Solar System.

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#58 2022-08-08 18:25:23

Void
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

An Eccentric Terrestrial might be very interesting.

For Antarctica to have photosynthesis under ice in certain dry valley lakes, all it takes is a couple of weeks a year where surface water runs.

So, for certain cases a short excursion into the habitable zone, and perhaps closer than that to its star, could give the gift of life to the planet.

Oceans might be almost always ice covered but melt water for a few months out of a several year orbit, could technically render the planet "Habitable" even though it would spend most of its time outside the habitable zone and perhaps even have a short excursion inside the habitable zone.

I would not rule out short summers where annual plants might bloom.  For tundra, I think 60 days might be enough.  And then even more hardy life such as Lichens would not even need that, perhaps not even need above freezing weather for even 2 weeks out of say 10 years?

Something to think about.

I would wonder about humans eventually inhabiting such a world.

And would its atmosphere freeze out at some point in its year?

An interesting sci-fi story perhaps.

To terraform for such a world might be to have orbital mirrors, and when near the sun melt lots of ocean ice, and when away from the sun, just keep certain spots on the planet powered up.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-08-08 18:32:07)


Done.

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#59 2022-08-11 01:16:26

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

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#60 2022-08-14 07:01:55

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Discovery Alert!
https://twitter.com/NASAExoplanets/stat … 7362044931
A recently discovered exoplanet skims in and out of its star's habitable zone. It's 37 light-years from Earth and about four times our planet's mass, making Ross 508b a super-Earth. A year there, one orbit, takes just 10.8 days!

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#61 2022-08-24 13:27:20

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

An extrasolar world covered in water?
https://phys.org/news/2022-08-extrasolar-world.html

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#62 2022-08-26 02:25:28

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Possible water world spotted orbiting an alien star

https://www.space.com/ocean-world-habit … -detection

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#63 2022-09-01 09:34:39

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

NASA’s Webb Takes Its First-Ever Direct Image of Distant World

https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/2022/09/01/ … ant-world/

For the first time, astronomers have used NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope to take a direct image of a planet outside our solar system. The exoplanet is a gas giant, meaning it has no rocky surface and could not be habitable.

The image, as seen through four different light filters, shows how Webb’s powerful infrared gaze can easily capture worlds beyond our solar system, pointing the way to future observations that will reveal more information than ever before about exoplanets.

Since HIP 65426 b is about 100 times farther from its host star than Earth is from the Sun, it is sufficiently distant from the star that Webb can easily separate the planet from the star in the image.

Webb’s Near-Infrared Camera (NIRCam) and Mid-Infrared Instrument (MIRI) are both equipped with coronagraphs, which are sets of tiny masks that block out starlight, enabling Webb to take direct images of certain exoplanets like this one. NASA’s Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope, slated to launch later this decade, will demonstrate an even more advanced coronagraph.

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#64 2022-09-01 11:57:20

Void
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

I have been wondering what happens to the plasma when a yellow dwarf star becomes a red giant.  I have wondered if the planets that would not be destroyed, can accrete the output of the reg giant star.  Perhaps the plasma is too hot for that.

But I have wondered if certain gas giant stars might then become stars themselves, if the absorb enough of the expelled materials.

Not that I should care, but perhaps an advanced civilization might arrange for that using "Star Lifting". 

But of course, I don't know.

Advanced civilizations might just want to Brouse on the materials of the created nebula.



Done.


Done.

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#65 2022-09-07 08:09:21

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Astronomers discover two “Super-Earth” planets about 100 light-years away

https://www.space.com/exoplanet-discove … dwarf-star

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#66 2022-09-13 15:13:07

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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Scientists find potentially habitable planet, where1 year is 8.5 days

https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/12/scientis … -17355358/

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#67 2022-09-15 08:57:58

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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

There Could be as Many Water Worlds as Earths in the Milky Way
https://www.universetoday.com/157595/th … milky-way/

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#68 2022-09-15 19:50:13

Void
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

A very wonderful article Mars_B4_Moon.  I think that it will be found that while there are not that many planets resembling Earth very closely, there will be alternate pathways to achieve a biosphere.

I choose to discuss one possibility for some of the worlds like those in the trappiest system.

http://www.trappist.one/#
Image Quote: http://www.trappist.one/images/t1-sys.jpg

Nice: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/new-cl … tmospheres

https://earthsky.org/space/trappist-1-p … s%20oceans.
Quote:

Pinning down the planets’ masses in turn pins down their densities. The study suggests that some TRAPPIST-1 planets could have up to 5 percent of their masses in the form of water. By comparison, Earth has only about 0.02% of its mass in the form of water. Thus some TRAPPIST-1 planets could have about 250 times more water than in Earth’s oceans.

Quote:

The study suggested the hotter planets closest to their parent star are likely to have dense steamy atmospheres, and the more distant ones probably have icy surfaces.

In terms of size, density, and the amount of radiation it receives from its star, the fourth planet out is the most similar to Earth. It seems to be the rockiest planet of the seven and is one of those with liquid-water potential.

Many more theoretical results came from this study. Read more about Grimm et al.’s modeling study here.

Thus TRAPPIST-1 and its planets continue to fascinate. And astronomers are also working hard to search for more planets around faint red stars similar to TRAPPIST-1.

So, that would be 'E', I guess.

But I will make an argument that 'F', 'G' and 'H' have hope, as if they do have thick glaciation over much of the planet, there could be dry land or open water at the sunward side, to some degree.

If somehow the ice sheets were grounded on the rocky surface, it might be that the atmospheric density of the hole facing the sun would be so much greater than the average of the planet, that life sustaining conditions might exist per temperature.   It would depend on how much ice.  Of course, the thicker the ice the more glacial flow to fill the sunward "Hole".  Such a thing also could exist, if the bottom of the hole was on average below freezing of water.  If it is like Antarctica, then there may be an oscillation which would cause periodic catabatic winds, that would both bring snow from the high altitudes down into the hole, and even then, perhaps melt it by the speed of the compression of the air as the wind flows down a large distance.  And those winds could be very fast.  Very, very fast on a tidal locked world.

At the very least, if these had some dry valleys like those of Antarctica, they might have dry valley lakes as well, even if as cold as Antarctica.

So, it is not impossible in my opinion that some of the needs for life could be satisfied on 'F', 'G' and 'H' by such a method.

This is also why I don't so much like the portrayal of snowball Earth as it is popularly presented.  I anticipate that "Dry Valleys" would come into existence by blockage of ice with land features, and evaporation of ice into the atmosphere.  Such holes might have an atmospheric pressure well above our current sea level value.  Maybe even dry land with open water lakes, or ice-covered dry valley lakes.

Done

Last edited by Void (2022-09-15 20:15:37)


Done.

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#69 2022-09-15 20:31:42

Void
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Posts: 7,195

Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Building on the last two posts, consider Mars if it were in the Trappist system.

The Tharsis Rise might very likely point at the Star.

It might have up to 5% water, but I would prefer it to have less.

Glaciation might push at the edges of the Tharsis Rise, and push regolith into a pile.  So, in some cases of planets tidal locked, it may be that a planet wide glacier may push rock ahead of it, and so create its own dam that may help to hold it in place.  On such a world, we might see most of the planet covered by ice pack, possibly with water under very thick ice.  The created Moraine may help to dam the ice flow to some extent.  The Tharsis rise might be covered in malt water, possibly covered with transparent/translucent light.  Depending on the thickness of the ice of the non-sun centric land of the Tharsis, may be high enough to displace much of the atmosphere of the planet to the sunward side, if the ice is higher than the Tharsis.  And then the mountain peaks would also present a possibility of dry land.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gl … RE&first=1

Many worlds with more water than that, may be completely covered with water or ice-covered water.

Done

Last edited by Void (2022-09-15 20:40:07)


Done.

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#70 2022-09-21 11:50:23

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

'Super-Earths are bigger, more common and more habitable than Earth itself – and astronomers are discovering more of the billions they think are out there'

https://theconversation.com/super-earth … ere-190496

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#71 2022-09-21 11:52:30

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Void wrote:

I think that it will be found that while there are not that many planets resembling Earth very closely, there will be alternate pathways to achieve a biosphere.

There might be life found on those Waterworlds, we must also take notice of our own Extremophile examples surviving crushing depts, acid conditions, extremes of hot and cold, perhaps Europa will have life or we will yet find life on Mars.

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#72 2022-09-22 11:03:44

Void
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

Yes, I agree very much.

Done


Done.

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#73 2022-09-27 11:43:09

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

TESS mission, Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite part of NASA's Explorer program.

TESS Finds a Super-Earth and two Mini-Neptunes in a Single System
https://www.universetoday.com/157775/te … le-system/

The field of extrasolar planet studies continues to grow by leaps and bounds. Currently, 5,090 exoplanets have been confirmed in 3,816 systems, and another 8,933 candidates are awaiting confirmation. The majority of these have been Neptune-like gas giants (1,779), gas giants comparable to Jupiter or Saturn (1,536), and rocky planets many times the size of Earth (1,582). The most effective means for finding exoplanets has been the Transit Method (aka. Transit Photometry), where periodic dips in a star’s brightness are seen as an indication of a planet passing in front of its star (transiting) relative to the observer.

Using data from NASA’s Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS), an international team of astronomers has discovered a three-planet system orbiting a Sun-like star (HD 22946, or TOI 11) located about 205.5 light-years. Based on size estimates yielded from their transits, the team theorizes that these exoplanets consist of a rocky planet several times the size of Earth (a Super-Earth) and two gas giants smaller than Neptune. Given its proximity, this system could be ideal for follow-up studies and characterization with the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST).

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#74 2022-09-28 09:48:47

Void
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Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

I have been pondering some about other worlds, and the speculative portion is excessively large, but until better information shows, up, I guess my guesses are perhaps as valid as many other guesses.

Query: "Red Dwarf Planet atmospheres"
General Response: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Red+Dwarf … d5d94a24a7

I want to try to seek guidance from those who appear to be more advanced than me, on this, so here is one article that is not too old: https://manyworlds.space/2017/10/26/red … 0habitable.
Quote:

The other found that these red dwarf exoplanets could have atmospheres that are always heavily clouded, but could still have surface temperatures that are moderate.

The new studies also enlarge the size of the habitable zones in which exoplanets could be orbiting a red dwarf or other “cool” star, making more of them potentially habitable.

Isaac Arthur has said that Red Dwarf worlds should likely be broken into several categories, as they are the majority of stars, and are really of vastly different relative sizes.  I will take a pause to view a video of his again to get more in alignment: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Is … M%3DHDRSC3

--------
Further references of my materials are available from post #516 backwards, for topic "Index» Terraformation» Worlds, and World Engine type terraform stuff."

Of course, that is the reader's choice.

--------

There really is so much material that could be posted here..............

I am interested in energy sources for life, and how those may interact with each other.

On our world photosynthesis is dominant, and the eating of one creature by another is also dominant.

It appears likely to me that at its root, photosynthesis is electro-chemical, and very likely was preceded by chemosynthesis.

Any other life method is less represented, and likely cannot compete, as it is not the optimal method for this planet, or for much of it.

For other worlds where the light is not as usable, I wonder if other offspring from chemosynthesis, might dominate?

I think that some candidates for an alternative to photosynthesis might include Protons from the solar wind of a star, and perhaps kinetic energy.  Maybe electrical currents as well.

Phobos might suggest something about electric charge: https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/ … ght%20side.
quote:

Phobos, however, absorbs the solar wind on its dayside, leaving a void over its night side.

Because the electrons are lighter than the ions, they rush in to fill the void.

This creates a field of negative electric potential over Phobos and statically charges its night side.

I don't know if a tidal locked planet can do this, unless it's atmosphere can absorb the protons on the day side.  If it could, then one side of the planet, the dark side, would tend to be at a (-) potential.  I don't know if electric currents would flow from that or not.  If they did, then life could exploit it.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn … re-energy/
Quote:

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Meet the electric life forms that live on pure energy
Unlike any other life on Earth, these extraordinary bacteria use energy in its purest form – they eat and breathe electrons – and they are everywhere

LIFE 16 July 2014
By Catherine Brahic

New Scientist Default Image
Geobacter – a current favourite

Derek Lovley/SPL

STICK an electrode in the ground, pump electrons down it, and they will come: living cells that eat electricity. We have known bacteria to survive on a variety of energy sources, but none as weird as this. Think of Frankenstein’s monster, brought to life by galvanic energy, except these “electric bacteria” are very real and are popping up all over the place.

Unlike any other living thing on Earth, electric bacteria use energy in its purest form – naked electricity in the shape of electrons harvested from rocks and metals. We already knew about two types, Shewanella and Geobacter. Now, biologists are showing that they can entice many more out of rocks and marine mud by tempting them with a bit of electrical juice. Experiments growing bacteria on battery electrodes demonstrate that these novel, mind-boggling forms of life are essentially eating and excreting electricity.

That should not come as a complete surprise, says Kenneth Nealson at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles. We know that life, when you boil it right down, is a flow of electrons: “You eat sugars that have excess electrons, and you breathe in oxygen that willingly takes them.” Our cells break down the sugars, and the electrons flow through them in a complex set of chemical reactions until they are passed on to electron-hungry oxygen.

“Life’s clever. It figures out how to suck electrons out of everything we eat and keep them under control”
In the process, cells make ATP, a molecule that acts as an energy storage unit for almost all living things. Moving electrons around is a key part of making ATP. “Life’s very clever,” says Nealson. “It figures out how to suck electrons out of everything we eat and keep them under control.” In most living things, the body packages the electrons up into molecules that can safely carry them through the cells until they are dumped on to oxygen.

“That’s the way we make all our energy and it’s the same for every organism on this planet,” says Nealson. “Electrons must flow in order for energy to be gained. This is why when someone suffocates another person they are dead within minutes. You have stopped the supply of oxygen, so the electrons can no longer flow.”

Video: Electric bacteria connect to form wires
The discovery of electric bacteria shows that some very basic forms of life can do away with sugary middlemen and handle the energy in its purest form – electrons, harvested from the surface of minerals. “It is truly foreign, you know,” says Nealson. “In a sense, alien.”

Nealson’s team is one of a handful that is now growing these bacteria directly on electrodes, keeping them alive with electricity and nothing else – neither sugars nor any other kind of nutrient. The highly dangerous equivalent in humans, he says, would be for us to power up by shoving our fingers in a DC electrical socket.

To grow these bacteria, the team collects sediment from the seabed, brings it back to the lab, and inserts electrodes into it.

First they measure the natural voltage across the sediment, before applying a slightly different one. A slightly higher voltage offers an excess of electrons; a slightly lower voltage means the electrode will readily accept electrons from anything willing to pass them off. Bugs in the sediments can either “eat” electrons from the higher voltage, or “breathe” electrons on to the lower-voltage electrode, generating a current. That current is picked up by the researchers as a signal of the type of life they have captured.

“Basically, the idea is to take sediment, stick electrodes inside and then ask ‘OK, who likes this?’,” says Nealson.

Shocking breath
At the Goldschmidt geoscience conference in Sacramento, California, last month, Shiue-lin Li of Nealson’s lab presented results of experiments growing electricity breathers in sediment collected from Santa Catalina harbour in California. Yamini Jangir, also from the University of Southern California, presented separate experiments which grew electricity breathers collected from a well in Death Valley in the Mojave Desert in California.

Over at the University of Minnesota in St Paul, Daniel Bond and his colleagues have published experiments showing that they could grow a type of bacteria that harvested electrons from an iron electrode (mBio, doi.org/tqg). That research, says Jangir’s supervisor Moh El-Naggar, may be the most convincing example we have so far of electricity eaters grown on a supply of electrons with no added food.

But Nealson says there is much more to come. His PhD student Annette Rowe has identified up to eight different kinds of bacteria that consume electricity. Those results are being submitted for publication.

Nealson is particularly excited that Rowe has found so many types of electric bacteria, all very different to one another, and none of them anything like Shewanella or Geobacter. “This is huge. What it means is that there’s a whole part of the microbial world that we don’t know about.”

“This is huge. What it means is there’s a whole part of the microbial world that we don’t know about”
Discovering this hidden biosphere is precisely why Jangir and El-Naggar want to cultivate electric bacteria. “We’re using electrodes to mimic their interactions,” says El-Naggar. “Culturing the ‘unculturables’, if you will.” The researchers plan to install a battery inside a gold mine in South Dakota to see what they can find living down there.

NASA is also interested in things that live deep underground because such organisms often survive on very little energy and they may suggest modes of life in other parts of the solar system.

Electric bacteria could have practical uses here on Earth, however, such as creating biomachines that do useful things like clean up sewage or contaminated groundwater while drawing their own power from their surroundings. Nealson calls them self-powered useful devices, or SPUDs.

Practicality aside, another exciting prospect is to use electric bacteria to probe fundamental questions about life, such as what is the bare minimum of energy needed to maintain life.

For that we need the next stage of experiments, says Yuri Gorby, a microbiologist at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York: bacteria should be grown not on a single electrode but between two. These bacteria would effectively eat electrons from one electrode, use them as a source of energy, and discard them on to the other electrode.

Gorby believes bacterial cells that both eat and breathe electrons will soon be discovered. “An electric bacterium grown between two electrodes could maintain itself virtually forever,” says Gorby. “If nothing is going to eat it or destroy it then, theoretically, we should be able to maintain that organism indefinitely.”

It may also be possible to vary the voltage applied to the electrodes, putting the energetic squeeze on cells to the point at which they are just doing the absolute minimum to stay alive. In this state, the cells may not be able to reproduce or grow, but they would still be able to run repairs on cell machinery. “For them, the work that energy does would be maintaining life – maintaining viability,” says Gorby.

How much juice do you need to keep a living electric bacterium going? Answer that question, and you’ve answered one of the most fundamental existential questions there is.

Leader: “Spark of life revisited thanks to electric bacteria”

Wire in the mud
Electric bacteria come in all shapes and sizes. A few years ago, biologists discovered that some produce hair-like filaments that act as wires, ferrying electrons back and forth between the cells and their wider environment. They dubbed them microbial nanowires.

Lars Peter Nielsen and his colleagues at Aarhus University in Denmark have found that tens of thousands of electric bacteria can join together to form daisy chains that carry electrons over several centimetres – a huge distance for a bacterium only 3 or 4 micrometres long. It means that bacteria living in, say, seabed mud where no oxygen penetrates, can access oxygen dissolved in the seawater simply by holding hands with their friends.

Such bacteria are showing up everywhere we look, says Nielsen. One way to find out if you’re in the presence of these electron munchers is to put clumps of dirt in a shallow dish full of water, and gently swirl it. The dirt should fall apart. If it doesn’t, it’s likely that cables made of bacteria are holding it together.

Nielsen can spot the glimmer of the cables when he pulls soil apart and holds it up to sunlight (see video).

Flexible biocables
It’s more than just a bit of fun. Early work shows that such cables conduct electricity about as well as the wires that connect your toaster to the mains. That could open up interesting research avenues involving flexible, lab-grown biocables.

This article appeared in print under the headline “The electricity eaters”

More on these topics:

MICROBIOLOGYBIOLOGYENERGY AND FUELSELECTRICITYBACTERIA

Protons themselves, might power life, if they could enter an atmosphere, and become Hydrogen.  This apparently exists in Antarctica at low temperatures.  https://theconversation.com/antarctic-b … rvest%20it.
Quote:

Antarctic bacteria live on air and make their own water using hydrogen as fuel
Published: November 14, 2021 8.31pm EST

It is not clear, how much of the Hydrogen that these things eat may come from the solar wind.  Hard to say.  But it might be possible that the Earth's South Magnetic pole might allow the entry of some protons from the solar wind into the atmosphere.  If this is real, however, much of the Oxygen these organisms would use would come from Photosynthesis.  That might not be true on another planet, there could be other sources of Oxygen, or chemicals that do similar to Oxygen.

Well, here is something:  Query: "Protons enter the Earth's atmosphere at the south magnetic pole" https://www.solutioninn.com/study-help/ … %20uniform.  Quote:

Protons and helium nuclei from the Sun pass into the Earth’s atmosphere
Protons and helium nuclei from the Sun pass into the Earth’s atmosphere above the poles, where the magnetic flux density is 6.0 × 10−5 T. The particles are moving at a speed of 1.0 × 106 m s−1 at right angles to the magnetic field in this region. The magnetic field can be assumed to be uniform.

Not exactly what I wanted, but something.........

A little more of similar: https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/que … -q66570290
Quote:

Transcribed image text: ou 3. Electrons and protons from the sun enter the earth's magnetic field high above its surface and undergo circular motion (See picture.) Eventually they spiral their way along the magnetic field lines to come down near the north or south poles. As they descend, they ionize the air, causing the colorful auroras or "northern lights" (and southern lights too). PROBLEM: An electron from the sun enters the earth's magnetic field and undergoes circular motion as described above. At this elevation the earth's magnetic field is about 3 x 10" T. The electron's speed is 2 x 10 m/s. a) Derive the equation relating the electron's circle radius to known constants. Find R(B, v. 9. m.) b) Calculate the radius of the electron's circle. SOLAA WIND

Granted, they might often simply Oxidize and create water.  But maybe not always. Maybe Hydrogen or fuel compounds can result.

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It looks like some others have been working on this: "Kenetosynthesis".
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/concept … -t902.html
I have considered it from time to time myself.

This possibly might exist hidden in a corner somewhere, but the probability is that if such a thing tried to evolve here, it would be consumed and competed out of existence by Green Plants and also Animals.

One possibility for it might involve Piezoelectric components that would generate electricity in a life form in response to the motion of a fluid in a planetary environment.

Red Dwarf worlds are considered to have a less friendly photo environment.  Less visible light that our plants like and possibly harsher radiation during flares.

Wind and waves might propagate to the dark side of a tidal locked planet.  This energy source might be much larger than for a planet like Earth.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc … ts/582661/
Quote:

Her computer models show that a tidally locked planet might have two strong wind jets, one in each hemisphere, that might act a bit like the jet stream here on Earth. But if the planet is too close to the sun, it might have only one wind jet, directly over the part closest to the sun. In that scenario, heat could be trapped on the dayside.

I would expect the wind and waves in places and at times, to be very excessive relative to what humans might like.

It is also possible that they would be periodic like the Katabatic winds of Antarctica.

This might be true, if there is an elevated ice mass on the dark side: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katabatic … lso%20used.

It might be an alternate method to return moisture towards the day side.  While flowing glaciers might do that, also blowing snow might do that.  Typically very cold snowfalls are like a dust.

Falling air can heat up and also evaporate ice at lower altitudes.

I would also note that winds creating waves, might also help to heat the water with turbulence.  Of course, it might also cool it with evaporation, but then that would help to distribute moisture to warmer areas.

That's enough,

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-09-28 11:19:01)


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#75 2022-09-28 19:15:56

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 7,195

Re: Extrasolar Habitable Planets

In this I have some fun with the imagination.

Quaking Aspens: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Qu … &FORM=VIRE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus_tremuloides
Image Quote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus_t … _map_2.png

So, it has motion with the wind that is very interesting.  The motion is said to benefit the tree by reducing the amount of sunlight on the leaf, which somehow makes photosynthesis work better.  I suppose winds are more likely on a sunny day.  It is also considered that it may allow the plant to get more CO2.

So, it uses wind energy to achieve some assistance.  I have wondered if on the dark side of tidal locked worlds something like this might evolve to have piezoelectric generators at the flex of the Leafs.  In reality such worlds might be so windy that they would rip the Leafs off.
But I see it as perhaps possible.  Most likely if permanently in the dark, these would be of a light pigmentation like many cave creatures.

I have often imagined living on the dark side of a tidal locked planet where it was warm enough, at least at some locations for a sea to exist.
I have imagined that you would have windmills on the shore that would generate power to illuminate LED's, to grow plants with photosynthesis as their method.  But since these could not displace plants that fed on wind energy, except where the LED's were you could also perhaps have alien forests probably white in color.

Sort of an interesting dream world.

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Another interesting version of a water world might involve a planet too cold for surface life, but it might have life in its oceans.  It would have to be around a small Red Dwarf, or it would not be tidal locked and very cold.  If it could prevent the Nitrogen and Argon from condensing on it's dark side, the day side might have value to a civilization.  Perhaps very future humans even.

The day side being ice pack, even so there should be lots of wind resources, and since the sun is more or less always almost in the same overhead location all the time. Concentrating mirrors, could heat your habitats.  Solar flares might make for a bad day on the outside, so that would be a downside, but I would think that most of the day side could be a collection of habitats.

If the atmosphere is of Nitrogen, Argon, and perhaps artificially of Oxygen, a multi bar pressure might be possible.

A 2 bar atmosphere of that mix on Mars would make it as warm as Earth, with the greenhouse effect.  But that would be too warm for the day side of the water world to be frozen over.

I believe I may have read that a maximum of 10 bar might work, any more than that would have too much mist in the atmosphere, to let sunlight through.  But perhaps a cold planet would be different.  A think atmosphere would be good for wind power.  Of course get too far from the star, and the atmosphere might freeze out on the night side, and the winds also might not be as vigorous as might be wanted.

But even with 1/10th of what Earth daylight is, if the skies were clear, you could use concentrating mirrors for heating and electricity.

So, it is possible that there may be some worlds in this path that could be useful to humans and/or aliens.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-09-28 19:41:22)


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