New Mars Forums

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Euler Postings

This is a quote from Euler in 2004...

This is perfectly consistent with a "law enforcement" approach, but it involves an implied admission that government can't protect us given that law enforcement almost invariably takes place after the fact.

You can't protect everyone all the time from every threat.  It just isn't possible.  Instead you have to concentrate on reducing the biggest threats by as much as possible in an efficient and economical fashion.

Terrorism is a very minor threat.  The average American is many times more at risk of things like domestic crime, Aids, car accidents, pollution, etc. then they are at risk from terrorism.  However, while we are spending enormous resources in an ineffective fight against terrorism, we are neglecting these other much more serious dangers.  If we saved the money that we are spending on the “war on terror” and instead used it to work on a cures for AIDS, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, etc., it would be a much better investment.

Because of my duties repairing posts, I am often brought into contact with the writings of forum members from 18 years ago.  This one caught my eye, and it caused me to reflect.

While not wanting to appear to take a position one side of the argument or another, I would like to point out the simple fact that Euler is comparing Apples and oranges ...

Funds spent on terrorism were then, and are now being spent to combat human behavior.

All the worthy expenditures Euler listed, and many others beside, are ** natural ** "opponents".

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Re: Euler Postings

I noticed that Euler was discussing internal combustion engines back in 2005.

He did not have Calliban as a resource, to help him, as we do today.

SpaceNut was saying pretty much the same thing then as he has recently.

One suggestion that someone offered at the time, was to test a CO2 engine under water.

That way, the input of oxygen mixed with CO2 could be tested without interference by Earth's atmosphere.

That seems to me like a really practical suggestion.

The discussion back in 2005 was about methane, but in 2022 we've made a bit of progress.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Euler Postings

The water jacket is for fire arresting issues like a hydrogen sourced fuel might have. Of course this an issue for inside a habitat area use.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,263

Re: Euler Postings

For SpaceNut re #3

Your suggestion of using a bath of water as a fire suppression system is interesting, and quite novel in the Mars context.

The suggestion from Euler's correspondent was for a different purpose, although it would most certainly have been effective as a fire suppression method.

Instead, the suggestion from Euler's correspondent was intended to isolate the working engine from the atmosphere, for the purpose of insuring accurate test data. The proposal under discussion was how to use an internal combustion engine on Mars, with oxygen supplied by the operator since there is none available on Mars.

In the year's since, with the arrival of Calliban, the NewMars forum members have become aware that CO2 itself can be used as a buffer gas in an internal combustion engine on Mars.  While it's a shame it would take 20 years for that insight to become available, better late than never!

The solution for IC engines on Mars (as it stands today) is to use a fuel (eg, CO or methane or similar gas) with a diluent (CO2) and oxygen carried along with the fuel in a separate container.

The system could be tested on Earth, which was the point that Euler's correspondent was trying to make.

It is NOT necessary to immerse the engine in water to carry out the experiment, but doing so would certainly eliminate data collection errors that might occur if Earth's atmosphere were to somehow enter the flow.

I hope that ** someone ** on Earth decides to design a complete IC engine for Mars, and performs the fine tuning with gas mixtures to achieve optimum performance along with optimum efficiency.

I expect that the CO fuel and CO2/O2 combination will prove most energy efficient in the long run, because the inefficiencies of production of methane or other hydrocarbons will detract from the overall performance of the solution.  It is worth remembering that water must be extracted and separated into it's constituents before the hydrogen can be used to make methane.  Every step introduces inefficiency, and those inefficiencies compound themselves.

The same considerations may turn out to apply equally well on Earth ....

(th)

clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: Euler Postings

With the arrival of Caliban.

With the arrival, we accepted racism and fascism, should also be stated out loud.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,825

Re: Euler Postings

clark,

Act as if you're a full grown man who can't be mortally wounded by angry comments left on an internet forum.

That really did need to be stated out loud.