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#26 2012-10-30 01:23:46

From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: 2005-11-21
Posts: 223

Re: Newmars Users

Thanks for the input Frank.  I went and joined Marsdrive just because of it.  Another thing that I think would help is to do away with the silly user names.  Real names and a little biography, especially from the people who run the site, would lead to more confidence, and more and more responsible posting. 

I am disappointed that the site does not get more support, input and direction from the Mars Society.  Another element of disclosure would be to discuss the relationship, if any, between the Mars Society and this site.  Why is there not a link on the Mars Society site to this forum? 

On this site, there is little about the Mars Society conventions, no links to the videos of the various speeches, no information about buying videos or other items, and no information about the 2013 convention, nor when to expect it.


#27 2012-10-30 18:26:02

Registered: 2005-08-30
Posts: 146

Re: Newmars Users

There are currently 6 main Mars groups (and their chapters) that are working towards trying to get humans on Mars asap. They are:

1. The Mars Society: Started in 1998, The first and largest, but with Zubrinholding fast to Mars Direct and a big focus on trying to get government funding for it, they have lost their appeal over the years and although they do discuss private alternative ways to Mars, most of their leadership do not believe in their hearts that private ways are THE way, so they tend to stick with government lobbying route, and most members feel rather powerless waiting around for something that will never come.
2. MarsDrive:Started in 2005 from out of the Red Colony forums and growing into a worldwide group working on mission designs and alternative funding plans, have presented at conferences and are constantly evolving and changing as new political, social, technological or financial developments happen. We have a clear path forward now.
3. The Mars Foundation: Started in 2005 out of the Mars Society, and with a big focus on settlement designs. From what I can see they don't have a big outreach push going on and are closer to being an academic group.
4. Explore Mars: Started in late 2010/early 2011, were a big offshoot from the Mars Society and their leader is Chris Carberry who was formerly the Executive Director of the Mars Society U.S. Obviously it was a falling out over methods and ways to reach their goals, although this group still reflects the old Mars Society line of hoping in government funded missions "way in the future" sometime. Good outreach ability, but they still miss the point- People want to feel like they are a part of something meaningful and real, not just sitting around waiting on government funded missions to appear. Lot's of potential here, but not realizing it yet.
5. The Mars Initiative: Started in mid 2011 as an idea from a frustrated Mars Society member, to set up a simple transparent fund to literally fund the first human mission to Mars. They have so far raised $1600 towards that goal, and I have helped as an advisor where I could. They feel that online outreach will get them to their goal but I feel they are missing real world aspects and need much more substance before people will trust them with millions or billions in donations. MarsDrive is a partner group with them.
6. Mars One: Started mid 2011 from a frustrated ex Mars Society member in the Netherlands, as a private company but have now become a non profit. They plan to send humans one way to Mars in 11 years time but when you peer through the smoke and mirrors, their substance is thin, and they are lacking in resources although have done well with online outreach so far. Many legal, technical and financial issues remain unclear which is their weakness at this time. They only reveal these details to potential sponsors, but what they fail to realize is that potential sponsors can come from anywhere, so locking out the general public is hurting their push forward.

As you can see, these groups all have their issues and challenges, all of them (including mine), struggle with lack of funds and volunteers and all think that their way is the best. The Mars Society was once looked at as the main group to do this, but after 15 years of habs and more habs, members are leaving, leaders are leaving and some very talented people as well. All of us have problems of public perception, after all, how can any small group like this expect to rival NASA and send humans to Mars? It seems unbelieveable.

But there are many talented, qualified and expert people in all of these groups, and often they have advisory boards who have had real experience with NASA missions such as Buzz Aldrin, Don Rapp and others. I don't think we lack the people or contacts to get to our goals, what I think is that the academic types who run the main groups are so strong minded that we must accept only government funded "official" ways to Mars or that science must be the main focus that they don't realize that most average members are frustrated and want to see action, not words. They want to also know that they might also have a chance one day to go to Mars, and government missions don't allow for that.

They are fairly divided and secretive because they are trying to convey the impression that they have what it takes to get their goals, but year after year of nothing kind of trumps all the smoke and mirrors stuff anyway. We can't explain away our lack of real progress. So people lose interest. That is why MarsDrive and myself are so engaging and I do come to forums etc. I want to know what the people think and engage with them. We all share the same dream after all. The leaders of these other groups need to stop being so aloof and do the same. If they want powerful growing member bases, they need to get real, get engaged and work on alterntive ways to Mars than government funding. This forum here is a small reflection on the dysfunctional nature of Mars groups, but it can improve if we work together more instead of all pulling in opposite directions. In the end, the above 6 groups are the only real people concerned with sending humans to Mars, so it's time we banded together for real and made some progress.


#28 2012-10-31 14:57:48

Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 48

Re: Newmars Users

I second. Space organizations will get no where unless they bind together.
Personally, I go to MarsDrive to learn about funding mars, technical details, and everything else about REALLY getting there. Newmars is much better for the latest new on lets say, curiosity. (Thanks Vincent)


Lets terraform today!


#29 2013-02-11 01:14:51

James Burk
Executive Director
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 155

Re: Newmars Users is owned by the Mars Society; we pay for the hosting and domain registration. New Mars started in 1998 as the New Mars Journal and later morphed into our forums system. The web team for the Mars Society is currently responsible for keeping the forums updated and secure. We are completely open to suggestions on how to improve these forums and make them more integrated with our website and other space groups' efforts.

James L. Burk
Executive Director, The Mars Society
+1 (206) 601-7143


#30 2015-10-12 07:03:36

From: EU
Registered: 2014-03-29
Posts: 146

Re: Newmars Users

falkor wrote:

Marsman yes good comments and correct, for me being a member of a forum takes greater effort and commitment than being a Facebooker or a Twitterer

to me - we have a new generation of people, the vast majority of whom are used to sending a txt on their mobile phone, that is fast, brief and requires a minimum of effort

FAST and minimum of effort now seems to be the "test" and Facebook and Twitter can be seen for that

where are the posts on FB and Twitter that were made 1 year ago? where are the discussions on FB and Twitter that were made 1 MONTH AGO?

because Forums "demand" slightly more effort/ time and commitment than all other "popular" social media - they have dropped to the bottom of the pile hmm there's no going back it seems

I work in IT - setting up a forum is not really that difficult anymore. I did for another topic - in fact, it's a lot of fun to design and get the community started.

I am guessing that for this forum, the issue is that the owner hasn't found a good way to migrate the old posts to a more stable platform. Understandable that he/she wants to hang on to the material since there are some top class posts here. Information that it would be practically criminal to lose.

Another issue is time. Somebody who works full time and /or has a family may struggle to find the time to do maintenance and build up the community through regular participation.
Perhaps it would make sense to have an admin team, so that there are always a few backup people to fill in, as people's avaialbility go up and down.

Personally I much prefer forums of this type over Facebook, twitter etc.

1) Anything you write on Facebook is snooped on by NSA, GCHQ and others. If they wanted, they could build up a profile on you. On a forum, you can choose to access with a proxy and don't give up identifying information, thereby staying anonymous. People who may have inside information are more likely to share it. Inhibitions go away.

2) On Facebook people self censor, or try to seem smarter than they are when posting against their real life identities. 

3) Perhaps you don't want all your friends to know that you are a space-geek!

4) The format of traditional forums are more inclusive, open, efficient and easier to access than the same information on Facebook. The information can be tagged and better organised.

Traditional forums are better and I hope they will not be replaced by dumbed down social media.


#31 2022-04-19 10:00:42

Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,008

Re: Newmars Users

For SpaceNut .... I have inquired about sending email to older members who might be interested in knowing the forum has survived and is active.

The topic I am bringing back into view is about that idea ... there was talk (by James Burk and others) of sending email to previous members.

I see no evidence that ever happened.

In the mean time, under your direction and supervision, the Administrators/Moderators have acquired the ability to send email to recipients you recommend by UserName.

It has been proposed that you compose an email you would like to send, and nominate yourself as the first target recipient.

A lot of work needs to happen to produce the result, but nothing will happen if you do not activate the request.

Perhaps you are waiting until the current Post Repair procedure is finished, later in 2022.  If that is the case, thanks! The current pace (of 300 posts per day) is just about maxing out the local resources.

Never-the-less, a single test email to yourself as a test target seems achievable, within some relaxed time frame, such as a month.



#32 2022-04-19 18:56:22

From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Newmars Users

Ya its been on the back burner so will give it some attention.


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