A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

Palomar · 2003-09-06 12:42:16

*It just occurred to me:

I was answering in the "Space Industrialization" thread of the "Other Space Advocacy Organizations" folder concerning mining on Mars.

I was about to go back to that thread, and insert (edit) a few comments about mining asteroids. I'll make that comment now: Contrary to Mars, I don't have an issue with mining asteroids: They are essentially space junk.

However: Many asteroids have been NAMED for persons [which I honestly don't think is much of an honor, but that's just my opinion of course. Little ol' me {bats eyelashes}]. Imagine the furor which would develop should someone want to do a bit of mining on the asteroid named for Anne Frank. Suppose that particular asteroid is abundantly rich in a certain ore? Good luck!

And most craters and other geographical features on the moon and Mars have been named for famous people, inventors, scientists, philosophers, etc. There will be cries of indignation from some people whenever said crater/whatever is trifled with (regardless of purpose; and again, I believe we should tread lightly and carefully on Mars).

Will names get in the way?

Comments?

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-09-08 19:15:24

Cindy:-

Will names get in the way?

A very interesting point, Cindy.
Knowing how illogical and parochial people can be, you may very well be right about this. What was a piece of space debris before being called "Asteroid Muhammad' or 'Planetoid Solomon', or whatever, suddenly becomes a major political and cultural bone of contention after it's named!!

Once we humans name something, it's like it's suddenly endowed with a life of its own and becomes somehow sacred. Your 'Anne Frank' suggestion was a particularly emotive one for obvious reasons.

[You know, Cindy, your down-to-Earth insights into the basics of human nature are very valuable here at New Mars. You often see things in a way which would certainly never occur to some others here (me included) but which, when you enunciate them, seem so patently clear and self-evident
Maybe it's that old 'feminine touch' thing that does it!
But, whatever it is, I appreciate it. I'm quite capable of being a little pedantic in my thought patterns ("Really? Never would have noticed!", says Cindy.) but reading your comments on various things is often a grounding and sobering experience.
Thanks for all your input. ]

Palomar · 2003-09-09 08:47:22

Shaun: "Thanks for all your input."

*Well...thanks for all YOUR input, and for responding to this. I was beginning to wonder if maybe I'd made a mountain out of a molehill. It could potentially become a difficult situation, especially with the 'politically correct' crowd. If a named asteroid were mined into shards, that'd be considered an affront to the person for whom it was named; and if mined to the point of oblieration, well of course there's nothing there now to bear the name. Of course, there are lots of the little boogers floating around out there...hopefully only a small fraction has been named, and especially that it won't become an issue.

Shaun: "You often see things in a way which would certainly never occur to some others here (me included) but which, when you enunciate them, seem so patently clear and self-evident
Maybe it's that old 'feminine touch' thing that does it!"

*These compliments are making me blush!! Well, hopefully it's that ("feminine touch") and not any abject weirdness on my part, teehee.

Shaun: "But, whatever it is, I appreciate it. I'm quite capable of being a little pedantic in my thought patterns ("Really? Never would have noticed!", says Cindy.) but reading your comments on various things is often a grounding and sobering experience."

*No, I don't think you're pedantic. And thanks for the compliments; the sentiments are absolutely mutual (sans feminine touch of course, teehee).

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-09-09 13:19:21

For every named asteroids, there are tens of thousands unnamed (or just basically catoluged ones). So what if people want to preserve an asteroid?

What if there existed an asteroid that looked like elvis? Would people be inherently wrong to protect it? Perhaps they're 'illogical' but I see no inherent harm in doing so.

Asteroids are property. If someone wanted to mine Ann Frank, they could as long as someone else hasn't already gotten there and staked their claim.

People would be devestated if their family asteroid was destroyed (ie, my great grand dad discovered a certain asteroid, and it's been followed by our family for centuries). But is there really anything they could do about it? Perhaps asking the mining people not to mine it would work, but other than that there's really nothing you can do (unless you had a space ship or an, um, automated gun that would shoot at anything which approached within a few km of it, heh).

One would hope that the popular asteroids were left alone given the utter abundence of the regular ones, but there are certain utilitarian humans who lack things like 'illogical' sentimentality.

Perhaps it would be profitable to set up gun turrets on peoples asteroids. Sort of a 'stake claiming' service.

One time only charge, though. With perhaps a maintenance fee every few decades.

Tree-sitters of the 21st century!

dickbill · 2003-09-09 13:39:15

If Mars is terraformed one day, major features such as craters and canyons might disapear, flooded or eroded by a thicker and humid atmosphere. If that happens, maybe the name of their beholder coud be translocated to new geographic features. Unfortunatly, without tectonic, Mars can only become flatter and flatter in these future wet conditions. So no future montains to expect.

Josh Cryer · 2003-09-09 13:48:13

Wow, you have a very good point, dickbill! Of course, we're talking eons, in which time humans could quite easily replinish whatever materials which have eroded.

Never thought about that before, though.

Palomar · 2003-09-09 13:57:21

Josh: "So what if people want to preserve an asteroid?"

*Actually, that's not precisely what Shaun and I have been talking about.

Josh: "What if there existed an asteroid that looked like elvis? Would people be inherently wrong to protect it? Perhaps they're 'illogical' but I see no inherent harm in doing so."

*Josh, I understand the point you are trying to make, but not how you are relating it to anything already discussed by Shaun and I. We must be on a different wavelength. My POV has been a) I don't care if asteroids are mined but b) some folks probably will, thanks to proper names being applied to some asteroids.

Josh: "Asteroids are property."

*Hmmmmm. I'm not sure I want to get into a long-winded discussion and/or debate, but: Whose property? And on what basis? Just curious.

Josh: "Perhaps it would be profitable to set up gun turrets on peoples asteroids. Sort of a 'stake claiming' service."

*What's in that can of soda by your computer? I hope you're joking.

dickbill: "If Mars is terraformed one day, major features such as craters and canyons might disapear, flooded or eroded by a thicker and humid atmosphere. If that happens, maybe the name of their beholder coud be translocated to new geographic features. Unfortunatly, without tectonic, Mars can only become flatter and flatter in these future wet conditions. So no future montains to expect."

*Really?! Geez, that'd be like living in northern Iowa...oh crud. I hope you're wrong. Flat land is boring land, ugh.

:;):

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-09-09 14:14:47

Actually, [preservation is] not precisely what Shaun and I have been talking about.

I know, I'm just playing devils advocate here and turning it on you guys. You're talking about exploitation.

Josh, I understand the point you are trying to make, but not how you are relating it to anything already discussed by Shaun and I. We must be on a different wavelength.

By no fault of your own, I assure you, I'm just trying to put it into perspective. The only thing that really says who can do what with a given resource is the ablity to enforce it. If some mining company wants to take out a few asteroids, there's really nothing anyone can do about it. And so when we complain about people venting their frustrations, we're not really achieving anything except stereotyping and just being silly.

My POV has been a) I don't care if asteroids are mined but b) some folks probably will, thanks to proper names being applied to some asteroids.

Not even neceesarily due to the names. It could be due to the orbits, or due to who discovered it. Objects have a sentimental nature to humans. This is unavoidable. What about the asteroid with the moon? It's the only one that's known, and a lot of people wouldn't want to destroy it on that basis alone, this doesn't mean that they're wrong or that there's an big issue here.

Either it will be mined or it won't.

And... don't think that people are going to suicide bomb because someone mins an asteroid that is named after some prophet. I simply don't see it happening. I mean, damn, that's just absurd.

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure I want to get into a long-winded discussion and/or debate, but: Whose property? And on what basis? Just curious.

I know, and that isn't my intention, either. I think property belongs to whoever can enforce it (moral and legitimacy issues aside, this is how it works out). This is why I mentioned gun turrets or something, this way you can guarantee no one will touch it.

If anyone responds to this comment about property, I won't be responding, it's not necessary to devolve into another discussion about property.

But really, in the end, the worst you can expect from some conflict about asteroid minding, is a boycott.

And who is to say that asteroid moving can't be done without anyone even knowing? I need to mine Ann Frank, but I'm at risk of a huge boycott because of the Ann Frank Society or something. What do I do? Oh, well, I just nudge X881 or something into Ann Frank's orbit, and nudge Ann Frank somewhere else. It's not like anyone could notice.

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#1 2003-09-06 12:42:16

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#2 2003-09-08 19:15:24

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#3 2003-09-09 08:47:22

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#4 2003-09-09 13:19:21

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#5 2003-09-09 13:39:15

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#6 2003-09-09 13:48:13

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#7 2003-09-09 13:57:21

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

#8 2003-09-09 14:14:47

Re: A Crater/Rock by Any Other Name - ...Uh Oh!

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