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#1351 2021-08-03 07:40:56

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

Well that deserves a whoop! What a beautiful sight!!


RobertDyck wrote:

Space.com: SpaceX installs 29 engines on giant Super Heavy Mars rocket (photos)
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/hjRiDWhhuCarJo5Jxynzqj-1280-80.jpg

"Installing Starship booster engines for first orbital flight," SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk said via Twitter yesterday (Aug. 1) in a post that included a photo of the rocket, with himself holding his young son nearby. And today (Aug. 2), Musk tweeted a close-up photo of Super Heavy's base, which is now bristling with Raptor engines.


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#1352 2021-08-03 07:47:48

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

Is it just me or does the orbital launch platform look too far distant from the launch tower?  Can the tower be moved? Or am I just being stupid/taken in by an optical illusion?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#1353 2021-08-03 07:49:18

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

And Musk has some real engineering knowledge doesn't he? Not sure, but don't think that's true of Bezos.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

The difference between Musk and Bezos is level of commitment and being there on site.


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#1354 2021-08-03 08:50:27

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,063

Re: Starship is Go...

For Louis ... if you have the time, please consider performing Wikipedia lookups on Jeff Bezos, and then report your findings to the group.

Items that might be of interest would include the college where he studied, and his papers from that time if any are available.

(th)

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#1355 2021-08-03 10:18:16

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 2,252

Re: Starship is Go...

Musk has 2 degrees; one is in Physics, the other in Business.

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#1356 2021-08-03 12:20:23

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

Nah. Not interested in Bezos. Flying rings are not my thing.


tahanson43206 wrote:

For Louis ... if you have the time, please consider performing Wikipedia lookups on Jeff Bezos, and then report your findings to the group.

Items that might be of interest would include the college where he studied, and his papers from that time if any are available.

(th)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#1357 2021-08-03 19:36:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,888

Re: Starship is Go...

Real hard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos
Education: Princeton University (1982–1986)
B.Sc. degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Jeff Bezos founded e-commerce giant Amazon in 1994 out of his garage
Which really does not tell the complete story...

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#1358 2021-08-03 21:09:33

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,063

Re: Starship is Go...

For SpaceNut re #1357

Another key part of the story is that Jeff Bezos is reported to have been a protege of Dr. Gerard O'Neill, who I got to hear in lectures during the years he was heading the Space Studies Institute and running Space Development conferences.  People came from all over the country to attend those multi-day events, whichg were held at Princeton.

Dr. O'Neill wrote a number of books, many of which are still available in libraries.

He was an inspiring leader who died too young of a form of cancer.

(th)

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#1359 2021-08-03 21:59:11

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

louis wrote:

Is it just me or does the orbital launch platform look too far distant from the launch tower?  Can the tower be moved? Or am I just being stupid/taken in by an optical illusion?

E5ZcuHcXEAYqIwI.jpeg?resize=768,574

Photoshopped image of Starship SN20 & Super Heavy on SpaceX’s Orbital Launch Mount. RGV Aerial Photography/Twitter

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#1360 2021-08-04 05:05:31

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

That (photoshopped) image has me scratching my head even more! I thought the idea of the tower was you had arms that reached across and stabilised the rocket on the launch platform as per Saturn V launches.

RobertDyck wrote:
louis wrote:

Is it just me or does the orbital launch platform look too far distant from the launch tower?  Can the tower be moved? Or am I just being stupid/taken in by an optical illusion?

https://observer.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/07/E5ZcuHcXEAYqIwI.jpeg?resize=768,574

Photoshopped image of Starship SN20 & Super Heavy on SpaceX’s Orbital Launch Mount. RGV Aerial Photography/Twitter


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#1361 2021-08-04 16:14:11

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

More tweets from Elon: "All 6 engines mounted to first orbital Starship"
E7663rjXoAUPP5V?format=jpg&name=small

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#1362 2021-08-04 16:16:31

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

Also from Elon: "Moving rocket to orbital launch pad"
E7-oZsRWUAISuIU?format=jpg&name=small E7-oZsRXMAI72cS?format=jpg&name=small E7-oZsSWQAExz6x?format=jpg&name=small

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#1363 2021-08-04 16:26:45

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

I hear thunder coming!

Wow! What phenomenal photos!

This is quite an emotional moment, the culmination of a lot of thinking and dreaming for people here.

Will Kamala let the thing fly? We will see.

Once we have a successful orbital flight we are already half way to Mars! More than that really - we are 99% of the way to Mars since a little rocket fire will get you there once refuelled.

We are really on the threshold of that new period in history when humanity is no longer a single planet species. It's a long way from the struggle for survival on the Savannah to Sagan City but I think we are almost there.


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#1364 2021-08-06 08:16:46

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,695
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

From AIAA’s “Daily Launch” for 6 August 2021:

Starship SN20 Rolled Out In Boca Chica, Texas

The Daily Mail (UK) (8/5) reports that SpaceX has moved Starship Serial Number 20 to the testing facility in Boca Chica, Texas, one day after the Super Heavy booster was set up on the launch pad. SpaceX has not announced a date for the launch, but a Federal Communications Commission filing suggests a six-month period as of June 20. SpaceX is currently awaiting a FAA environmental review before Starship is permitted to launch.

        SPACE (8/5) reports Starship’s orbital flight plan “calls for Booster 4 to splash down in the Gulf of Mexico, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) offshore, a few minutes after launch. SN20 will continue into orbit, make one circuit of Earth and then come down in the Pacific Ocean roughly 90 minutes after liftoff, near the Hawaiian island of Kauai.”

My take on it:

This pretty well confirms what I have said about the delay:  the environmental impact statement update that EPA must approve before FAA can approve a license to fly.  The words in the release “FAA environmental review” point to this,  just in a misleadingly oversimplified wording.  Do not expect quick approval,  and do not blame FAA for the delay.  Spacex has to satisfy the EPA about this,  an agency notorious for its lack of flexibility on rules.  This has nothing to do with politicians,  and everything to do with bureaucrats.

I am surprised,  but pleased,  that Spacex thinks they are ready to make their first attempt at orbital flight with this vehicle.  I would have flown a couple more fully-hypersonic suborbital missions with Starship-only first.  I do think when this orbital mission does fly,  that the vehicle will probably be lost.  That would be consistent with the track record getting up to this point.  It would also be consistent with Spacex’s “fly it,  break it,  build another” approach.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1365 2021-08-06 08:34:29

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

Elon Musk twitter, 1:42pm Aug 5: "Aiming to stack ship on booster today"

Elon Musk, 4:14pm Aug 5: "Winds are too high today. Looks like wind speed will be low enough to stack early tomorrow morning."
E8DErhlVUAAORur?format=jpg&name=small

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#1366 2021-08-06 09:55:58

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

Stacked!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2_dfvRZ4M

And then de-stacked...


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#1367 2021-08-06 09:57:45

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

It's naive to think bureaucrats don't respond to political direction.

GW Johnson wrote:

From AIAA’s “Daily Launch” for 6 August 2021:

Starship SN20 Rolled Out In Boca Chica, Texas

The Daily Mail (UK) (8/5) reports that SpaceX has moved Starship Serial Number 20 to the testing facility in Boca Chica, Texas, one day after the Super Heavy booster was set up on the launch pad. SpaceX has not announced a date for the launch, but a Federal Communications Commission filing suggests a six-month period as of June 20. SpaceX is currently awaiting a FAA environmental review before Starship is permitted to launch.

        SPACE (8/5) reports Starship’s orbital flight plan “calls for Booster 4 to splash down in the Gulf of Mexico, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) offshore, a few minutes after launch. SN20 will continue into orbit, make one circuit of Earth and then come down in the Pacific Ocean roughly 90 minutes after liftoff, near the Hawaiian island of Kauai.”

My take on it:

This pretty well confirms what I have said about the delay:  the environmental impact statement update that EPA must approve before FAA can approve a license to fly.  The words in the release “FAA environmental review” point to this,  just in a misleadingly oversimplified wording.  Do not expect quick approval,  and do not blame FAA for the delay.  Spacex has to satisfy the EPA about this,  an agency notorious for its lack of flexibility on rules.  This has nothing to do with politicians,  and everything to do with bureaucrats.

I am surprised,  but pleased,  that Spacex thinks they are ready to make their first attempt at orbital flight with this vehicle.  I would have flown a couple more fully-hypersonic suborbital missions with Starship-only first.  I do think when this orbital mission does fly,  that the vehicle will probably be lost.  That would be consistent with the track record getting up to this point.  It would also be consistent with Spacex’s “fly it,  break it,  build another” approach.

GW


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#1368 2021-08-06 10:04:20

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

Elon Musk, 9:56am Aug 06: "Starship Fully Stacked"
E8HaippVIAEsnIG?format=jpg&name=small E8Haio0VkAIDTJW?format=jpg&name=small E8HaippVIAUZag7?format=jpg&name=small E8HaippUYAUqcHA?format=jpg&name=small

Last edited by RobertDyck (2021-08-06 14:55:17)

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#1369 2021-08-06 10:53:14

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

Brilliant!

And this is a good video of the moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-uqwCTvGgA


RobertDyck wrote:

Elon Musk, 9:56am Aug 06: "Starship Fully Stacked"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8HaippVIAE … name=large


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#1370 2021-08-06 14:56:58

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

Elon Musk, 11:39am Aug 06: "Minus the lifts"
E8HyI--UUAUctaZ?format=jpg&name=small

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#1371 2021-08-06 15:11:21

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

You had one thing to get right and you forgot the lifts, Elon!

RobertDyck wrote:

Elon Musk, 11:39am Aug 06: "Minus the lifts"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8HyI--UUAUctaZ?format=jpg&name=small


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#1372 2021-08-06 15:13:06

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

I think the UK used to have a rocket called Black Arrow.

So the booster doesn't need tiles because it will be a powered descent once it hits the atmosphere?


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#1373 2021-08-06 15:52:47

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,911
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

louis wrote:

You had one thing to get right and you forgot the lifts, Elon!

smile The lifts (articulating boom lifts) are for assembly. This test launch will not have payload, and certainly no passengers. Intended to crash in the ocean. The tower is configured to recover Super Heavy, although this test launch won't do that. The tower for Saturn V held propellant lines to load the rocket. It'll be interesting to see how they load propellant here.

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#1374 2021-08-06 15:57:23

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Starship is Go...

Nice timelapse vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG6CV3-LBCk

I find this so inspiring.

There is now the real hope humanity can escape Earth and start anew.

Given the dark, dystopian times we are living through, the promise of that seems to burn all the more brightly.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#1375 2021-08-06 16:19:42

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,911

Re: Starship is Go...

Louis,

Interplanetary transport is a technological innovation to expand our reach into the solar system, not an escape mechanism.  Humanity's problems are caused primarily by humans, not the Earth itself.  All the problems humanity has will be brought with us, wherever we go, and anyone who thinks otherwise is beyond naive.

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