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#26 2020-09-27 10:34:20

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

Just saw that Saudi Arabia was sending that blue ammonia to Japan. Sounds interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets … li=BBnbfcL

Quite a large amount to be used in power production.

For Mars .at first will be a low use as nitrogen is not plentiful but is worth looking at for long term storage.

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#27 2020-09-27 10:53:57

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

Following up with SpaceNut re #26

Thanks for the reminder nitrogen is in short supply on Mars.

It definitely would need to be supplemented from outside sources to support significant growth of the Martian economy.

This is a business opportunity for those who can manage the challenges of setting up a complex process to operate in free space.  There are many materials that should be of value to future Martians, and the free traders are sure to be present as the Solar System economy grows.

(th)

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#28 2020-11-06 06:07:10

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

Here is an update on the theme of using Ammonia as an energy storage medium ...

In this case, serious (ie, well funded) research is under way to establish feasibility of powering large ocean going vessels with Ammonia.

There is a useful charge showing energy content of various fuels (per liter) ... I hope it shows up here ...

By early 2024, Man Energy Solutions plans to install an ammonia-ready engine on a ship. The first models will be dual-fuel, able to run on traditional marine gas oil as well.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/foul-smellin … 28485.html

a1b902af754903dad126ab4af6bd70f6

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#29 2020-11-06 15:36:52

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,154

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

The problem with using ammonia as fuel is that we must first use electricity to carry out electrolysis of water, yielding hydrogen.  We must then combine the hydrogen with gaseous nitrogen and heat it to 500C in a chemical reactor (Haber-Bosch process).  Both steps consume energy.  In order to assess the practicality of ammonia as fuel, someone would need to crack the numbers for net efficiency (from first electricity to final mechanical power) of storing energy this way.

On the plus side, it is liquid at low pressures at typical Martian temperatures.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-11-06 15:45:56)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#30 2020-11-07 14:08:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

The cold of mars seems a good fit for the use of ammonia as a working fuel storage method other nitrogen uses....

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#31 2020-11-08 00:06:28

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,615

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

Calliban,

Whereas Lithium-ion batteries are 350Wh/L, LNH3 is 3,500Wh/L.  LNH3 doesn't decompose as rapidly as gasoline or diesel or kerosene and the chemical constituents are easily recyclable, unlike Lithium-ion batteries.  LNH3 is much easier to store than LH2 or LNG, and a regenerative fuel cell can be used to both create Hydrogen and consume it, so long as it can be stored indefinitely, as LNH3 can.

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#32 2020-11-30 18:15:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

tahanson43206 wrote:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/scot … 51696.html

Scottish homes will use 100-percent green hydrogen in world first

I was glad to see this report of a trial in 300 homes for four years.

It seems to me this is a much more practical way of heating homes on Mars than traditional methane would be.

The efficiency of production of hydrogen from Martian water would be superior to the net efficiency of trying to make methane.

The output of the consumption of hydrogen in Martian homes would be water vaper, which would be desirable in any case.

Wind power is not in the cards for Mars, but nuclear and PV power seem like reasonable options.

(th)

64896520-32fe-11eb-bada-8189e507c1e7

The only difference is decomposition where the energy for electrolysis comes in with the remaining system still the same.

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#33 2021-06-09 13:43:11

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/100- … 00278.html

How A 100 Year Old Science Experiment Helped Create The Fuel Of The Future
Editor OilPrice.com
Tue, June 8, 2021, 7:00 PM

The article at the link above is about Ammonia.

It ** should ** be similar in outlook to some of the posts of kbd512 on the subject.

(th)

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#34 2021-06-09 16:19:54

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,154

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

On Earth, wind power is at least a better technological option for producing hydrogen than is solar power.  Compared to thermal plants (coal and nuclear), a MWh of wind electricity, requires rough ten times more steel.  For solar PV the factor is closer to 100 tines more.  And wind turbines have capacity factor of 20-40%, dependent upon siting.  That has strong cost impacts, because the capacity factor of the electrolysis stack is an important cost driver.  To make ammonia from hydrogen, process heat is needed ~500°C in the presence of an iron oxide catalyst.


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#35 2021-07-18 13:37:39

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage

https://www.intelligentliving.co/ammoni … he-future/

Experts Hail Ammonia As The Fuel of The Future
by Andrea D. SteffenJune 24, 2021
SHARE2
A lot of the clean energy movement’s early attention was focused on lithium-ion batteries because of the electric vehicle markets. However, lithium alone might not provide enough power to support a complete transition of heavier industries.

But all sectors need to convert to clean and sustainable energy sources if the world is to meet zero carbon goals. So, that’s why many of the heavy industries (like shipping and maritime) are searching for alternatives to lithium-ion batteries.

This is a general-public level article, but I thought it might be worth adding to the mix at NewMars.

The link came from FriendOfQuark1, who checks in from time to time to see what the forum is up to.

(th)

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