New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#1 2021-07-10 19:49:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Power deregulation

We have been talking about the payback and time and lots of topics as they relate to earth power and its supply delivery to the consumer.

This is deregulation...

Power companies have off loaded the cost to maintain infrastructure and are now trying to be brokers of power... Since the electrical connection wires are owned buy the power companies, the solar is bought cheaply by them but the reduced levels of cost are not passed on to the consumer...

Power line owners are paid a cost for making the power get to you the consumer.
The bill also includes the cost for your power from the provider of choice.

Offline

#2 2021-07-10 19:50:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: Power deregulation

kbd512 wrote:

SpaceNut,

There are laws in every state that limit the profit margins that public utilities may make for providing commercial electric power, even here on the supposedly deregulated Texas grid.  If they're charging more to deliver the same electrons down the same wires, then it's because it actually costs them more money to provide the power.  The gigantic unmistakable "clue" that something doesn't add up here, presuming you're not ideologically / emotionally / financially invested in the outcome, is that THE POWER COSTS THE CONSUMER M-O-R-E M-O-N-E-Y!  That's a bigger red flag than the Chinese flag, and a lot of people are ignoring it because they either can't count or don't like what objective reality is offering up to them if they can count.

If someone could invent solar panels and batteries that lasts 60 years or more, the fact that we would pay a lot more money and use a lot more energy up-front would be far less of an issue, but the fact of the matter is that we can't.  As with every other technology in life, there are trade-offs to be made.  That guy (the one who owns a battery R&D company) said they know how to make a battery that lasts for 20 years, but then you give up fast charge / discharge rates and the cost goes up dramatically.  If the non-gold-plated / plain Jane Lithium-ion is too expensive, then how much do you suppose the fancy 20 year service life Lithium-ion battery costs, and can any country on the planet afford to make them in the quantities required to power a grid when the Sun disappears over the horizon?

Offline

#3 2021-07-10 19:56:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: Power deregulation

https://www.directenergy.com/learning-c … regulation

Seems NH started this mess...

In 1996, the New Hampshire legislature passed RSA 374-F, beginning the process of deregulation, and it was the first state in the nation to do so.

https://www.maketheswitchusa.com/new-ha … regulation


https://www.electricchoice.com/map-dere … y-markets/

homes and businesses can “shop around” and select the retailer energy provider (REP) of their choice.
DeregulatedMap_Color8_111516.png


https://alexandermackay.org/files/Dereg … Sector.pdf

https://www.electricchoice.com/electric … hampshire/
The average residential electric rate is 9.35 cents per kWh The total average rate is 9.35 cents per kWh.

https://www.electricchoice.com/electric … -by-state/

Offline

#4 2021-07-11 05:42:07

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Power deregulation

For SpaceNut re new topic

If members contribute data, this topic could become useful for study in future ...

SearchTerm:cost per kWh electricity see Post #3 for New Hampshire
SearchTerm:kWh cost of

(th)

Online

#5 2021-07-11 07:01:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: Power deregulation

I would expect those states which lag in the conditions of there wiring grid connections to soon pass that cost of infrastructure upgrades back to the customer as happens with all business in time which even include a cable company of local service area when they went from wire to fiber...
The creation of power from net metering and from solar farms is going to be problematic for some of these grids without the upgrades being done.

Offline

#6 2021-07-11 10:02:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,326

Re: Power deregulation

For SpaceNut re #5 and topic in general ...

This would be a ** super ** time for a US government funded infrastructure bill to fund build out of modern power distribution equipment.

I wonder if such a thing will happen!

(th)

Online

#7 2021-07-11 11:06:41

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,576
Website

Re: Power deregulation

When you look at this issue,  you have to look at the rules the market must operate under.  The free market is the most powerful engine of creation yet devised by humans,  there is no doubt about that!  None!  But 10+ millennia of experience with it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that free markets left to themselves without rules for fair play,  will always (always!!!) devolve into piracy and slavery.  That's the history.  Human greed is just too powerful to be left unconstrained by rules.

It's all about the regulatory requirements,  whether your energy market will operate in the best interests of your people,  or not.  Simple as that,  and just as hard to do right as you might imagine.  We have been having troubles in Texas with our electric grid,  precisely because we have been using ideology instead of common sense,  and thus have inadequate or inappropriate regulatory rules on our electricity grid,  on the electricity generators that feed it,  and on the fuel suppliers who feed those generators. 

And that lack bit us in the cold,  and once again as things got warmer.

Ideology,  whether left or right,  makes lousy public policy!  We've all seen that in action,  for multiple decades now,  all across the country.  I hate one-party rule,  especially here in Texas.  I hated it under the Democrats decades ago,  and I hate it under the Republicans now.  We had better government when there was a balance between the parties,  brief as those years were. 

George Washington may well have been right.  Political parties may be the bad idea he warned us against,  in his farewell speech.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-07-11 11:14:17)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB