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Astronauts chosen for a manned Mars mission will probably be away from Earth at least 2 1/2 years.
It occurred to me that it will probably be necessary to surgically remove the appendixes and gall bladders of astronauts prior to the mission even if healthy.
Because as far as I know, even a perfectly healthy appendix can go bad in less that a year or so. And gall bladders are just one more thing waiting to go wrong. With painfull gall stones.
Tonsils might have to be removed although thats less common these days.
Kidney stones could develop and of course, a healthy kidney should never be removed so astronauts would have to make sure they drank plenty of water and watched their diets.
But do you agree that the appendix and a few other potentially problematic but unnecessary body parts might have to be removed prior to leaving Earth just as a precaution?
I doubt even the most lavishly equipped early Mars Missions would have the facilities for major surgery.
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hmmmm . . . . . . .I never thought of that. I think that having surgery before going to mars is probably quite a risk in itself, especially if done twice. If anyone knows enough, can it be done at the same time?
"I am the spritual son of Abraham, I fear no man and no man controls my destiny"
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I have two thoughts about that. One, the Gall bladder is not vestigal. It is used for Temporary Storage of Bile. Gall Bladder issues are not that common. Secondly. I don't see appendicitis being a big issue either, same with tonsilitis. I am personnally against removing organs that are thought to be vestigal, simply on the basis we haven't found a purpose for them.. I feel the Human Body, or Inner Space, still has many Secrets hiding in wait for discovery. I believe this is also the current Medical opinion of Late. Also, I do know that people with Gall bladder removal have to adjust their diet, in lieu of the lack of bile storage. I am not sure in what ways though. Basicly over two to three years there will be plenty of chance for sever health issues. Bringing a qualified PA, NP who is a scientist in another field might not be a bad idea.
A full blown surgeon might not be a bad idea either.
We are only limited by our Will and our Imagination.
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Heads and bellies, if eliminated, would go a long way towards reducing many problems: eg. boredom, and food storage requirements, on long space voyages.
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Seriously though, do you really expect early manned Mars missions to be anywhere nearly equipped to do an appendectomy or other surgery? Even IF a fully trained surgeon was a member of the crew.
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Seriously, yes ... and much more. The philosophy of backups-for-everything on voyages lasting years, is the name of the game--beyond Lunar orbit. That's why the whole thing is so challenging, and exciting, and entertaining (?) for the rest of us in-the-know, who are left behind...!
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Bile, also known as gall, is stored in the gall bladder. Bile is a surfactant (surface acting agent) similar to soap or detergent. Without it you cannot dissolve fat or grease in water. That means you cannot digest fatty or greasy foods unless you have bile. Vitamin E does not dissolve in water; it only dissolves in fat or oil, so you need fatty foods to absorb that vitamin. Although the liver produces bile, it does not produce it quickly enough to digest a fatty meal. You need the gall bladder to store up enough bile to digest something like a greasy hamburger. By the way, your intestines absorb bile back into the blood, and the liver filters bile out of the blood to store it back in the gall bladder. Without a gall bladder for storage your liver must make new bile. That puts a strain on your liver because it must make a lot of new bile rather than just recycling. That means any one meal must have small quantities of fat, grease, or oil.
Tonsils are the body's laboratory to develop new antibodies. Without tonsils and adenoids you will have difficulty fighting off a new cold or other disease. Tonsillitis, in the vast majority of cases, can be cured with penicillin. When you do get an infection there is the danger of infecting your tonsils because your body deliberately concentrates germs there to develop antibodies to fight them.
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*Actually, this topic has been touched on before at these message boards. I refer you all to the thread entitled "Crime & Insanity" from June 2002, in the "Civilization and Culture" folder.
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
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Gosh, RobertDyck: I was only half-serious...! When they took out my tonsils as a kid, I let 'em do it because they promised me all the ice cream I could eat. (Not much, as I remember.) Ether was used to put me to sleep back then, too ... imagine that inside a spaceship!
So, to expand on my reply, above: The crew capabilities should include redundant medical treatment/surgical skills, and miniaturized surgery facilities included, on any vehicle bound for Mars. I've always assumed that the ISS should be available--as a base of operations--for training and rehearsals, vehicle-assembly, and refueling the Marship in LEO--so size and volume shouldn't be the controlling factor that launching directly from sea-level would necessarily be.
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I've generally assumed that the first few Manned Mars Missions would end up closely following Dr. Robert Zubrins Mars Direct plan one way or another.
With a crew of four, at most six on those missions.
I don't think with such a small crew and limited supplies and equipment that you could be expected to do any really invasive surgery during the mission. How many trained people would it take to do surgery?
I would say three at least.
And unless your trained surgeon is cross trained in numerous other scientific or engineering disciplines, he/she is likely to be pure deadweight on the mission if no medical emergencies arise.
For that matter, I doubt any signficant dental problems could be treated during a mission. I suspect that all astronauts departing on a manned mission to Mars will have their teeth very thoroughly cleaned and any problems taken care of before hand.
A crewmember can probably be trained to do routine cleanings and checkups during the mission, but any serious tooth problems would probably have to be handled by extraction.
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And unless your trained surgeon is cross trained in numerous other scientific or engineering disciplines, he/she is likely to be pure deadweight on the mission if no medical emergencies arise.
I agree fully. The surgeon could double as a biologist to look for life on mars, and determine once and for all if it is there!
"I am the spritual son of Abraham, I fear no man and no man controls my destiny"
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And unless your trained surgeon is cross trained in numerous other scientific or engineering disciplines, he/she is likely to be pure deadweight on the mission if no medical emergencies arise.
I would argue that. In reality you would need one surgean, then have two or three other crew member trained as either a nurse or paramedic. Probably a Paramedic would od, they can do many things a Nurse can do, and the training is approximately 1200-1300 hours. It can be accomplished in 30 weeks. It only has about 400 hours in the Class the rest is Ambulance ride along and ER/ICU time.
Also. Surgeons have an advance graduate degree based on pre-med, which is a combination of Biology and Chemistry to a medium level. The spot for a Surgeon could be made competitive so you could get a Surgeon who is a medical scientist. Also, Scientific theory is universal. So, he or she could assist with the crew. The iterations are endless. A surgeon would not be dead weight. two more of the crew could be trained as paramedics, LPNs or RNs. etc..
We are only limited by our Will and our Imagination.
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And unless your trained surgeon is cross trained in numerous other scientific or engineering disciplines, he/she is likely to be pure deadweight on the mission if no medical emergencies arise.
I agree fully. The surgeon could double as a biologist to look for life on mars, and determine once and for all if it is there!
I, of course, take issue with the "once and for all" statement, regarding the efforts of one person--Mars being a whole planet to be explored for lifeforms. But once on Mars, this medical/explorer individual would have the whole of Earth's experts to consult. Trouble is, with getting about and digging/drilling and sifting soils/ices would be pretty taxing for him/her, quite aside from doing checkups on the rest of the crew. I'd say, better to have redundant medical expertise via medical minor degrees, per crew member ... as well as surgical expertise with minor mineralogy/hydrology minor degrees. You know--multifacited persons, every one!
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Aye, I agree with you very much dicktice.. as we deviate from the subject though, my opnion has been clearly stated, and I am glad someone else has a similiar view point as me or vice versa.
We are only limited by our Will and our Imagination.
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excellent viewpoint...and one that happen to agree with as well
"What you don't realize about peace, is that is cannot be achieved by yielding to an enemy. Rather, peace is something that must be fought for, and if it is necessary for a war to be fought to preserve the peace, then I would more than willingly give my life for the cause of peace."
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Generally speaking, I suspect the only issue would be areas where large ammounts of bodily fluid was allowed to freely float. Say we needed to operate on a stomach which had been punctured. It would necessarily need to be pumped before we could go at it (though that may be how it's done in any case). Same with other organs (which I don't think is actually possible in the case of some organs). I mean, think of the uncontainable (well, with current technologies) mess an open heart operation would be...
Basically, I don't think this is a human thing, but more a technological thing. We could potentially be operating in a rainstorm of blood...
Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
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The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.
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*Having been excused from jury duty I now rejoin New Mars discussions...
I'd love to have an M.D.'s take on the issue of surgery in zero gravity. Most of you know I'm a medical transcriptionist; I've typed zillions of surgical reports, but I certainly am no authority on the subject of surgery.
A patient's blood pressure is always important, even more so in the surgical suite. I have no idea how zero g might effect a person's blood pressure. Another aspect which springs immediately to mind is the fact that all surgeries in history have, of course, taken place with gravitation pull. Think of an intra-abdominal procedure: The "lay" of all organs (stomach, intestines, etc.) are affected by gravitation pull (towards the back). Now think of how the abdominal organs are more "suspended" in a zero g environment. Of course, many formerly "open" procedures (large incisions) can now be done via ports and microscopic instruments (small incisions), but still the body tensions would be different.
And that's just for starters.
There'd also be the added health hazard (to the surgical team) of stray bits of blood floating around and being contacted, whereas in gravity blood always flows downward.
I dunno...can we get an M.D. to address this? I for one would love to read his/her input on this.
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
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so do you know any MDs who are also Mars enthusiasts?
"What you don't realize about peace, is that is cannot be achieved by yielding to an enemy. Rather, peace is something that must be fought for, and if it is necessary for a war to be fought to preserve the peace, then I would more than willingly give my life for the cause of peace."
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so do you know any MDs who are also Mars enthusiasts?
*I was going to answer "No, I don't" but just now recalled that a physician here in New Mexico, in the Albuquerque area, has been involved, including heading up a chapter. He was formerly -- last year -- in charge of bi-weekly (or roughly so) newsletters, but I think he handed over responsibility for the newsletter to someone else and I can't remember his name. Sorry for the lack of name recall, but my work exposes me to names of hundreds of physicians...
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
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