New Mars Forums

BWhite

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From: Chicago, Illinois

Registered: 2004-06-16

Posts: 2,635

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

http://www.biodezl.com/biodiesel_from_algae_ps.pdf]Link

It seems algae in closed systems grows very, very fast, if there is plentiful CO2. Mars has CO2.

Now we need pressurized diesel Hum-vees for our rovers.

= = =

It also appears that the algae can be harvested simultaneously for

methane;
ethanol;
biodiesel;
animal feed stock (for rabbits?)

Edited By BWhite on 1112898443

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Give someone a sufficient [b][i]why[/i][/b] and they can endure just about any [b][i]how[/i][/b]

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Interesting how some times thoughts in one thread leads to another.(peak oil discusion)

Now are these salt water or fresh and what is the amount of sunlight for proper growth?
Next would be has the ISS done any such experiments with algea growth?

srmeaney

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From: 18 tiwi gdns rd, TIWI NT 0810

Registered: 2005-03-18

Posts: 976

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

How about biodiesel from Bacteria. Far more energy efficient. Unfortunatly Biodiesel corrodes the engine and forces the need for continuous maintenence.

That reminds me, Most non Australians will have heard nothing of the problem we were having with our Petroleum production. Apparently a number of Light Aircraft were falling out of the Sky because the Fuel lines were being clogged by a clear white gel. They were also finding increasing amounts of fine black powder in the Aviation fuel. It turned out to be Ethanol Polymers and Carbon debris as a result of financial cut backs and cost savings by the Shell. They had been overcracking their oil at higher pressures to reduce electricity consumption. Mobil were also up to something similar. Too much pressure in their plant ruptured storage tanks and pipes resulting in the total destruction of the facility.

They both blamed it on inattentive workers.

Dook

Banned

From: USA

Registered: 2004-01-09

Posts: 1,409

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

What are you going to use to burn the bio-diesel?  You need a LOT of oxygen.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

If my memory has not failed me was there not a problem with algae growing in the waste water tank on the ISS. That it had played a part in why the oxygen generation unit had failed at one time.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Biodiesel: A New Way of Turning Plants into Fuel

The paper details a new way to produce biodiesel fuel, which is made out of plant matter. Traditional biodiesel refining uses only the fatty acids of a plant, which typically make up less than 10 percent of the mass of dried plants. Rather than converting only the fat, this new method promises to turn all of the dried plant material, including roots, stems, leaves, and fruit, into biodiesel or heat energy.

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Darn. Bill's link is dead...

Sounded like a good biomass-reactor, beside biodiesel reactor.

Something like that would be needed to bind CO2 fast to mix it with regolith, to get a minimally liveable soil for primitive flora...

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Bill's link is back up must of been a temporary problem.

Rxke

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From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Not here, in Belgium 

BWhite

Member

From: Chicago, Illinois

Registered: 2004-06-16

Posts: 2,635

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Not here, in Belgium 

Alternate link:

http://govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2 … 150010.pdf

My original link posted above is a copy stored by this guy:

http://www.biodezl.com]http://www.biodezl.com

Edited By BWhite on 1118437269

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Give someone a sufficient [b][i]why[/i][/b] and they can endure just about any [b][i]how[/i][/b]

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Ooh, aah, a 320-ish page pdf, yay!

Thanks, Bill!

(Did a VERY quick glance, looks interesting in places... inspiring me to fantasize in wild tangents yet again...)

... CO2, bioreactor, hmmm... direct power for rovers...? Oxygen, darn...

OKaaaay, make mental note not to forget that last exam on monday

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Growing Spirulina:
http://www.spirulinaacademy.com/grow-yo … spirulina/
Food value of Spirulina:
http://www.livescience.com/48853-spirul … facts.html
As for Spirulina, I suggest that it could be in stationary, "Wall Gardens" where desired.  It is possible that sunshine passing through such spirulina wall gardens would still be sufficient for the plants which would be in the cylinder wall gardens. Again the wall Spirulina tanks (Not on the cylinders) would also double as a cooling system.  It is even possible that this system could  be used to generate electricity, but that would  be a further challenge.

High protein source, that being Spirulina.
http://www.antioxidants-for-health-and- … ulina.html

Spirulina would be in plastic pouches distributed as desired (The amount of shade you wanted) along the inside of the walls, you also have a method to extract heat (Cool the greenhouse as well), and at night from the tank(s) add heat to the greenhouse with water circulation.  Perhaps there are better methods, but it is a possibility.

Void I have no idea what Spirulina, so me being me I did look it up and while all the literature sound great its not something that is serve on the dinner table. A simple vegetable as blue green algae Spirulina grows so fast, it is harvested every 3 days.  http://www.superfoodsforlife.com/page/103407

http://ag.arizona.edu/hydroponictomatoes/nutritio.htm

There are sixteen elements which are generally considered to be essential for good plant growth. The macro elements are those required in "high" concentrations: Carbon (C), Hydrogen (H), Oxygen (O), Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), Potassium (K), Calcium (Ca), Sulfur (S), and Magnesium (Mg). Carbon must be supplied to the plant as carbon dioxide gas (CO2). In a small operation or one with large amounts of fresh air movement, additional CO2 may not be required.

The micro elements are also essential for growth, but required in smaller concentrations. There is still some disagreement, but generally the micro elements are thought to be: Iron (Fe), Chlorine (Cl), Manganese (Mn), Boron (B), Zinc (Zn), Copper (Cu), and Molybdenum (Mo). Certain plant species may need others for good growth: Silica (Si), Aluminum (Al), Cobalt (Co), Vanadium (V), and Selenium (Se).

• Table 1. Fertilizer salts (adapted from Jensen and Malter, 1995)

  Fertilizer Salts element supplied grams of fertilizer needed per 1000 liters of water to provide 1 mg/l (ppm) of the nutrient specified
  Boric Acid [H3BO3] B 5.64
  Calcium nitrate [Ca(NO3)2·4H2O] (15.5-0-0) N 6.45   Ca 4.70
  Cupric chloride [CuCl2·2H2O] Cu 2.68
  Copper sulfate [Cu(SO4)·5H2O] Cu 3.91
  Chelated iron (9%) Fe 11.10
  Ferrous sulfate [FeSO4] Fe 5.54
  Magnesium sulfate [MgSO4·7H2O] (Epsom salts) Mg 10.75
  Manganese chloride [MnCl2·4H2O] Mn 3.60
  Manganese sulfate [MnSO4·4H2O] Mn 4.05
  Molybdenum trioxide [MoO3] Mo 1.50
  Monopotassium phosphate [KH2PO4] (0-22.5-28) K 3.53   P 4.45
  Potassium chloride [KCl] (0-0-49.8) K 2.05
  Potassium nitrate [KNO3] (13.75-0-36.9) N 7.30   K 2.70
  Potassium sulfate [K2SO4] (0-0-43.3) K 2.50
  Zinc sulfate [ZnSO4·7H2O] Zn 4.42

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Algae … s_999.html

University of Nebraska-Lincoln has provided the first direct evidence that an algae-infecting virus can invade and potentially replicate within some mammalian cells. Known as Acanthocystis turfacea chlorella virus 1, or ATCV-1, the pathogen is among a class of chloroviruses long believed to take up residence only in green algae. That thinking changed with a 2014 study from Johns Hopkins University and UNL that found gene sequences resembling those of ATCV-1 in throat swabs of human participants.

Something to consider....

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

From old newmars forums friends elsewhere....

In the Democratic republic of the Congo is a lake called Kabuno bay it is an Iron rich environment and an ancient microbe that utilises iron in photosynthesis is present.

Iron Eating Microbes

a very useful microbe

Something I noticed in the article:

According to University of British Columbia (UBC) research published this week in Scientific Reports, 30 per cent of the microbes in the Democratic Republic of the Congo's Kabuno Bay grow by a type of photosynthesis that oxidizes (rusts) iron rather than converting water into oxygen like plants and algae.

I don't know whether this represents a deliberate effort on the part of the scientists at UBC to leave carbon dioxide (CO2) out of the equation, or whether it's the journalist's doing, but the photosynthesis of plants and algae isn't just "converting water into oxygen". 

It may not be politically-correct to acknowledge it but the inconvenient fact remains that CO2 is what plants use to make the carbohydrates that keep them alive.
The chemical equation is as follows:

6CO2 + 6H2O --> C6H12O6 (glucose) + 6O2

While it's true that the oxygen expelled by plants does indeed come from the water, rather than the carbon dioxide, the FOOD the plant needs - the carbohydrate, specifically the glucose - depends on the availability of CO2.
You can't have carbohydrate without carbon.
Plants get their carbon by splitting CO2 they get from the atmosphere..
CO2 IS PLANT FOOD.

Plants use the glucose to make starch (for storing nutrients) and cellulose.
Cellulose is what forms the structure of the plant - such as the wood in trees.
Everything a plant is, or does, depends on atmospheric CO2.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

When ever we talk about these so far off in the future topics we tend to forget that we need  lots of oxygen to make these fuels work......

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

bump

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,175

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

BSBios to build Brazil's first big wheat ethanol plant as crop expands
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodi … 022-07-14/

Brazil to discuss meat, sugar and ethanol trade with the United States
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/14/br … ted-states

87%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcNFOcD4r2I

There are no longer any light vehicles in Brazil running on pure gasoline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

some other Algae threads in other discussions

Algae based solid propellant? https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10001 ,  Utilization and Issues of Algae for Martian Colonization https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8799
,  Algae https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9947

SpaceNut wrote

The algae, micro algae and seaweed are not the same things....some can under fast growing are toxic...now if we are looking for fast grow to convert to fuel then that is good as we need that most of all for the energy levels of mars being by far less than earths.
Man needs food as well as other things from these types of organisms.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-15 04:09:29)

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,413

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

GW Johnson mentioned something interesting in has experimentation with plant-derived biofuels.  Using Ethanol or Methanol, he could generate equivalent power for similar fuel weight (or at least this was my understanding), as compared to gasoline, by virtue of high knock-resistance of these fuels when used in spark-ignited engines, relative to the most common grades gasoline, allowing them to run very high compression ratios of 16:1.  Compression ratios that high would be atypical for gasoline, where even specially blended stocks have Octane ratings near 100 without a significant percentage of the fuel being additives to increase knock-resistance while detracting from thermal power output, whereas pure Ethanol is around 115, IIRC.  GW can correct me if I'm wrong.  You still get less total thermal power output from Ethanol as compared to gasoline or diesel, thus burning through more fuel, but running a much higher compression ratio is one way to get more total power output from a given quantity of fuel.  If the difference is relatively minor but the fuel base stock can literally be grown on a farm, then it may still be worth it.  Beyond that, Ethanol can be upgraded to gasoline using the Socony-Mobil developed catalysts and methods.

A higher compression ratio generally leads to greater thermodynamic efficiency in internal combustion engines.  This is why diesel engines are or can be more thermodynamically efficient than spark-ignited engines and use less fuel as a result.  Spark-ignited engines are universally more efficient than compression ignition engines in terms of power-to-weight ratio, often dramatically so.  Virtually all modern diesel engines are turbocharged or "boosted", meaning their intake manifold pressure is typically some multiple of ambient atmospheric pressure, but if you were to run equivalent boost pressure into spark-ignited engines, power output would be inordinately higher because spark-ignited engines can rev much higher since they're not reliant upon compression to ignite the air-fuel charge.

This is not to assert that you can't create higher-revving diesel engines producing more power as a result of increased rpm, but relative to spark-ignited engines their power output per unit weight tends to be very pedestrian.  For ultimate durability, keeping engine rpm relatively low is highly desirable.  Between two different engines that generate the same rated power output and are equally well-regulated, if one engine makes its rated power at half the rpm of the other engine, then the lower-rpm engine will tend to last significantly longer before major overhaul is required, and also suffers lower power losses from friction.  That said, the engine producing twice as much torque at half as much rpm will also need to be more sturdily constructed to withstand the stresses applied to the rotating assembly and block, so it must weigh more to survive the applied stresses.  As with everything else in engineering, it's a trade-off.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Ethanol gets added to new England's fuels during the winter months, but it's not very well burned, and you end up using more fuel.

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,413

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

SpaceNut,

Unless you can run much higher compression ratios that are only practically achievable using pure Alcohol-based fuels or Lead-based additives, then it makes very little sense to mix Ethanol or Methanol to gasoline.  It doesn't burn any worse, but as you stated, it's no cleaner and you only end up consuming more fuel.  Alcohols are hygroscopic, so they tend to have the unwanted effect of accumulating water in the fuel unless the entire fuel system is well-sealed and the fuel is consumed on a regular basis.  Most passenger cars are used frequently, thus fuel is regularly consumed, and modern fueling systems are well-sealed when maintained correctly, so water accumulation isn't a serious problem.  Adding Ethanol or Methanol to aircraft fueling systems can be much more problematic if the fuel isn't completely consumed on a regular basis.  It'd be better to burn pure Ethanol and run much higher compression ratios.

ANALYSIS OF DESIGN OF PURE ETHANOL ENGINES - University of Ballarat, Ballarat, Victoria, Australia

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,820

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

The conclusion of the link content.

Direct fuel injection and turbo charging are the key features pure ethanol engines should have to take full advantage of ethanol’s higher research octane number and higher heat of vaporization.

Sounds like a federal requirement to sell a vehicle

The proposed direct injection, turbo charged engine differs in the direct injector operating pressure and the piston shape and compression ratio to efficiently run with E100 and gasoline. The E100 has an increased injection pressure (300 bar vs. 200 bar) and an increased compression ratio (13:1 vs. 9:1).

Sounds like a safety concern

Improvements in power and torque vary from 20 to 28% over the range of engine speed, while the fuel conversion efficiency increases 17 to 23%, or 5.70 to 6.25 points, up to values about 40%.

sure everyone would love the lower cost to fill up but what was the cost of a tank of ethanol versus gasoline?

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,175

Re: Biodiesel from algae - Diesel trucks on Mars?

Could Algae Be the Next Big Crop?
https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farmin … 13e39.html

Midwest lawmakers ask Biden to make ethanol-heavy fuel available year round
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir … ear-round/