Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

tahanson43206 · 2020-02-10 22:19:07

For Louis re #124

Thanks for picking up on the question I've posed.

You've asked an interesting question, and (at this point) I don't know the answer.

Your question assumes that a ski moving across a layer of ice will cause it to melt.

We humans have several centuries experience moving objects across ice.

During winter on Earth, lakes and rivers in Canada freeze over, and truck traffic carries great quantities of material over the frozen surfaces.

It seems worth investigating to see if a layer of ice (water or carbon dioxide) can be maintained in tunnels under the Martian surface. If they can, and if any heating caused by traffic can be removed by dissipating that heating into the Martian regolith around the pipe, then the speed of transit should be quite high.

The principle of operation of Elon Musk's Hyperloop is to move pods through evacuated tunnels, so a Martian atmosphere might well qualify as "evacuated" for transportation purposes. Relatively little energy would (presumably) be needed to keep pods moving along an ice layer inside a tunnel, and that could be provided by overhead magnetic fields.

Another advantage of an ice layer transport system is that the engineering crew does not need to worry about keeping the pipe perfectly level for its entire length, as would be the case for a water borne transport system. A bit more energy would be required to move a pod up a modest incline, but then less energy would be required to move it on the down trending incline.

I notice this topic is about Power Distribution and not about Transportation of Goods by pipelines on Mars.

It might be time for someone to start a new topic to allow for continued development of this branch, while the original is allowed to continue developing along its original path.

Edit#1: A quick Google search seems to support the supposition that no measurements of temperature under the surface of Mars have been carried out. The most recent lander included a temperature probe, but it was driven only a short distance under the surface.

The most recent report I found was from October of 2019, and the heat probe was still at the surface, so it would appear we humans have no direct knowledge of temperatures under the surface.

Thus, we have no way of knowing if temperatures under the surface are low enough all year long to support an ice based transport system.

Edit#2: The article at the link below provides a short introduction to the mechanics of ski interaction with snow. It discusses the effect of pressure on snow, melting to water and then freezing to ice.

http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/ … s/why.html

Edit#3: This is primarily for Lewis, in (partial) answer to your question about a ski melting ice.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/ … 1fc41f4973

The author appears to have investigated the physics of sliding on ice to some depth. I was interested to learn that although melting does occur when a ski interacts with a layer of ice, the temperature drop is only (about) 1 degree. Sliding is still observed in arctic expeditions with temperatures of -40. The key take-away for me is the idea that there exists a state of water at the boundary between ice and atmosphere which is disordered, and allows or enables low friction interaction of the ice with a surface such as that of a ski.

I am coming away from this preliminary investigation thinking that there may be a range of temperature of an ice passage that would be optimum for ski transport on the Earth or on Mars.

The freezing temperature of carbon dioxide is so much lower that that of water that I find it difficult to imagine a transportation tunnel based upon dry ice is practical for Mars, but perhaps there are some permanently cold regions where the physics of sliding on dry ice would be favorable for transportation.

Edit#4: Here is some actual research done with dry ice. The focus is a question: Could blocks of dry ice be making tracks on Mars.

The answer is (apparently) that is possible, but since the experiments were done on Earth, they are not conclusive.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … n-gullies/

What I'm picking up from the article is the idea that the direct sublimation of dry ice may provide a frictionless surface, since the support material is a gas rather than a liquid.

Research would be needed to discover if there is a combination of dry ice and sled material, and temperature of the environment, that favors low friction sliding of a transport pod.

A warning appeared on a nine year old thread about skiing on dry ice, that a ski made of "normal" material might simply freeze to the dry ice. However, I took that as mere speculation, since the thread itself appeared to be of a lighthearted bantering nature.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-02-10 23:46:27)

SpaceNut · 2020-02-11 16:53:35

The energy of mars, gasses and so much more are being transport and with the purposes brodened to include people not just goods we are looking at the means to connect all of the my Hacienda to gether.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-19 20:14:59

Just goes to show that we have a topic for just about everything.

tahanson43206 wrote:

The article at the link below is about study of the use of existing natural gas pipelines for shipment of green hydrogen.
https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/e … wwse100286
A detail from the article that I thought might be interesting to the NewMars community is that shipment of hydrogen through a pipeline that was designed for natural gas has the same energy throughput, if the pumps are changed.
While the energy density of hydrogen (at the same pressure and temperature) is smaller than that of natural gas (about 1/3), by increasing the pressure in the pipeline the energy delivery is about the same.
Where I see this as of possible interest for Mars is the potential to ship hydrogen via pipeline to human settlements from locations where water is found, which otherwise may be unsuitable for settlement.
As I understand the article, shipment of energy by pipeline is on the order of 14 times more efficient than shipping the same energy by high energy electric lines.
(th)

Void · 2020-10-20 13:17:22

It's white out there, and I am playing sissy today. First snow, all sorts of bad driving happens.
I liked this reconnection. Places like Europe could do some things with this that I sort of like to speculate on. And perhaps there is something for warm places as well.
I am thinking of massive storge tanks on the bottoms of Oceans for Hydrogen. Of course maybe salt domes as well.
Um....The thing about big storage tanks in deep water is they will get cold. When you withdraw the Hydrogen it will get even colder if you expand it.
I suppose this could as well then be a way to get cold out of the deeps of the sea, as well as to distribute Hydrogen to a need.
I am thinking windmills again. In this case, if you are in a warm moist climate you may use the cold expanding Hydrogen to flow through your windmill blades to condense water from the atmosphere. Then you could have jet engines on the ends of the blades. I guess you then have your choices. Electricity from wind and jet engines, or do you want the water more. Maybe some times you can have it all. But don't blow up your windmill!
For icy climates, I guess you burn the Hydrogen first and then flow it through the blades, if you can keep it from freezing up. I guess you might be able to have rocket thrusters, sort of on the ends of the blades.
Efficient? Effictive? Cow Should I know
Done.

Void · 2020-10-21 13:13:59

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I think it is fairly obvious that the petrochemical industry off shore is well situated to work with deep sea Hydrogen. And we should not waste their skills, or let them vanish. The desert locations of the planet may well figure into this as well, per various types of solar.
The main goal is to keep technological/industrial humanity alive, and to keep slave traders from owning them. This, in my opinion is the path to a technological future for humans on Earth and space. Hopefully the "On Earth" line can be held as well against the slave traders and owners. And yes, I believe we are approaching that time phase again, but with better chances this time. I think this time is early still, but we need to get ready to repulse what I consider to be evil, the notion that people can own people, and dispose of them as they like.
Now then, on to more cheerful things. A hydrolox economy in support of a metholox economy on many worlds.
Earth and Mars are very interesting for these things, I feel.
For Earth, of course very deep oceans, for Mars mostly very shallow seas and such that have to be thawed, and will most likely need a covering, often involving ice.
The energy implications are obvious. But we can also have food production methods in both cases. There are many micobes that can consume Hydrogen and CO2 in a situation where water exists, and they might produce organic mass and Methane.
Filter feeders? Well many creatures do such. Brine Shrimp, Whales, why not humans with their machines? So, then doing that on both planets, a food source. In the case of Mars, we would have to liberate Oxygen to get the Hydrogen from water.
The motabolism of the microbes will then also help to melt seas and lakes on Mars.
As per appatizing, I guess the short life spans of microbes indicates a better posibility to engineer them to nutrition and appitite. 3D printing suggests to make texture and visual needs.
And so, then we eat things as we always do. If someone can figure out how to make humans run directly on electricity, then good, then we don't have to eat other organisms. Untill then we remain corpse eaters.
Sorry, but that is real.
Done.
OK, then maybe Hydrogen and CO2?
But in the end, if you make an omnipotent successor to Humans with full moral responsibility, understanding everything in the snap of a finger, will it enjoy life?
I think I will settle for less.
Something I recall from an incedent where my mind completely got warped is an answer to the question of what is life about. The answer was "The phone rings and you answer it".
Done Done.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-21 19:50:16

The pipelines can have any mix of ethane based gases in any ratio but to make use of them for specific applications may require a seperation piece of equipment before pure gasses can be used.

https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/pr … chmura.pdf
Existing Natural Gas Pipeline Materials and Associated

https://www.croftsystems.net/oil-gas-bl … important/

https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Gas_ … ations.php

So after the material for the piping is selected we then need equipment to be able to lay them under ground between terminal locations that are until a base build up is unknown.

Void · 2020-10-23 17:04:15

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Yes Spacenut, pipes on Earth or Mars for various purposes will need reference to past practices and experts in the field as a start.
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Query: "Is there Oil on Mars? with Dr. John Mcgowan"
Hydrocarbons?
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Is … M%3DHDRSC3
And there is this:
https://oilonmars.blogspot.com/#:~:text … es%20Mensa.
And no, I am not asserting that "There are Hydrocarbons on Mars in quantities". However there are detected small amounts of Methane emissions.
My purpose in this post is to speculate on the subject either way yes or no, and then to suggest that we should be prepared to adapt to either situation. If there are significant petroleum deposits on Mars, then that is going to be a great treasure. If not, then we have to adapt to that situation of Hydrocarbon absence.
If we are not adaptive then we have wasted a great part of the efforts to attain Mars.
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I am particularly interested in both possibilities in relation to "Plasma Manipulations of organic chemicals on Mars'.
While I am ok with "Moxie", I also am interested in a family of potential methods for Mars.
Extracting Oxygen from Martian atmosphere with plasma. Actually it seems that under Martian conditions you might do this very efficiently. The pressures and temperatures are favorable to it. Reference:
https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/ … 0separated.
The above could possibly be very useful on Mars, as you might inject the output of Oxygen and CO into a bioprocessor, and allow microbes to consume the CO and some of the Oxygen. I do not think they would consume all of the Oxygen, as they need to incorporate Carbon into their bodies. This should leave behind a dissolved mixture of Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Argon and maybe trace gasses.
Then you may process the biomass for Methane.
Extracting Hydrogen from Methane with plasma.
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/extract … 0emissions.
There are various ways. The output can be dominantly Hydrogen with some CO. This is said to be an excellent fuel for many industrial processes. Perhaps metal refining.
Of interest is that you may "Sink" Oxygen into a Carbon source, such as sewage, and obtain Hydrogen from water.
It is just mind boggling. Very important for Mars, I think.
If you had Methane and Petroleum fields, then you can get lots of Hydrogen and CO.
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One part that is somewhat discouraging is they don't seem to have made enough progress in getting both Oxygen and Hydrogen from water. That seems harder. If you investigate however, I believe you will be surprised at what plasma processes might offer.

Done

SpaceNut · 2020-10-23 19:03:47

The more we have a quantity of hydrocarbons the more of a problem having the oxidizer becomes as there is very limited water unless its underground in large reservoirs to extract the oxygen from as the atmosphere is quite trouble some to acquire to the very low pressure level.
The starship shows just how hard its going to be for quantities that we are going to need.

Void · 2020-10-23 19:45:10

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An interesting way to pose the analysis of the situation Spacenut. I have looked down these pathways as well. However whatever turns out to be real is what would need to be worked with.
For Earth excessive emissions of Hydrocarbons would be a concern, and for Mars as well. However Mars has a very deep permafrost layer that probabbly separates a very Oxidized surface from what may or may not be a Hydrocarbon enriched deep regolith.
For now, we have a very thin atmosphere, which can allow a fair amount of aerobrakeing, and which will not strongly prohibit Mars from being a platform for going out into the solar system. It can be that some day an atmosphere of 330 millibars may give a living but glacial planet where humans can in favorable conditions go outside without excessive protection. But as Nitrogen is likely to be dear to get, that is the extent of my projection of a maximum living Mars.
However, if you use hyper greenhouse gasses or somehow procure 770 mBar of Nitrogen, then you melt the permafrost, and all that Methane, (If it exists), sucks down all your atmospheric Oxygen.
It would be a good problem to have, all that is needed is to not be silly about wanting to have a tropical rain forest system on Mars. Our kinds do well with temperate and even perhaps low Arctic anyway.
And before terraforming in a massive way, it could be wonderful to have an overyly Oxidized surface, (Perchlorates), and a petrochemical deeps of the regolith.

However it is determines what a rational method might be.
Done.

Void · 2020-10-25 10:11:33

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I found this yesterday, chemical tricks with basalt.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/0 … n-dioxide/
Quote:

An untapped opportunity
Mineral weathering is one of the main mechanisms the planet uses to recycle carbon dioxide across geological time scales. The carbon dioxide captured in rainwater, in the form of carbonic acid, dissolves basic rocks and minerals—particularly those rich in silicate, calcium, and magnesium, like olivine. This produces bicarbonate, calcium ions, and other compounds that trickle their way into the oceans, where marine organisms digest them and convert them into the stable, solid calcium carbonate that makes up their shells and skeletons.
The chemical reactions free up hydrogen and oxygen in water to pull more carbon dioxide out of the air. Meanwhile, as corals and mollusks die, their remains settle onto the ocean floor and form layers of limestone and similar rock types. The carbon remains locked up there for millions to hundreds of millions of years, until it’s released again through volcanic activity.

In the past I suggested putting dune grains into the bottoms of bodies of water. My intention was to generate Hydrogen for microbes to consume. The process would be slow, might be speeded up with a stratified lake where the bottom could be fairly warm. I believe PH also would matter.
If Mars is terraformed, it is almost certain that those dunes will weather away anyway. That might make you unhappy, as they might absorb atmosphere. Not sure.
Anyway the dunes are mostly Olivine, and a little Fieldspar from what I have read. Igneious rock, but already ground down for Martians to use.

But I really want to ponder if it would be possible to use a plasma arc to speed the process. You can do similar with carbon rods.
This is a demonstration:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ge … 1300E1428B
The output of the above process could be useful, as you can also generate Carbon from CO2, with a Plama arc method.
Other interesting plasma methods:
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/article … ivAbstract
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 9406014816
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/article … ivAbstract
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45JdxSyGZLo
How Mars is a good place for treating CO2 with plasma methods:
https://www.newsweek.com/living-mars-se … sma-688603
The other day I read an article that indicated that solid Carbon can be extracted from either CO2 or Methane, using a plasma method including "A Plasma Centrifuge". But I havn't find that article yet again.
So, lots of chemestry with plasma.

I think using basalt will need some work. For Earth you have to grind basalt. On Mars the basalt dunes are at least partially ground to the optimal size.
And of course I am looking for methods to get supplies of fluids to pass through pipelines on Mars. That gets me enough on topic I think.

Done.

SpaceNut · 2020-11-02 20:10:49

tahanson43206 wrote:

I'm intrigued by your prediction in this post:
Calliban wrote:
One idea that does intrigue me is the possibility of transporting water at low pressure as brine, flowing through a long plastic pipe, buried in the regolith. A small diameter plastic pipe, maybe a foot in diameter, between a harvesting facility at the poles and a base or colony closer to the equator. Friction in the pipe would reduce flow rate to a trickle. Maybe it wouldn't matter if that trickle was maintained 24/7, some 365 days a year.
There may be resources readily available to help a reader to understand the forces at work inside pipes. I would have thought that pressure would overcome resistance to fluid flow inside a pipe, but perhaps the bursting strength of the pipe is a limit.
(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-11-02 20:11:25

Being under ground the pipe would not see the searing heat of day and the nights cold but at what depth must we dig to isolate and insulate the pipeline for the effects.

Southern Ocean surrounding Antarctica are said to have a temperatures ranging from −0.8 to 2 °C (35 °F), salinities from 34.6 to 34.7 psu.

https://edptoolbox.org/documents/Pipeli … -Cover.pdf

https://www.hunker.com/12460059/require … ater-meter

pipe size for water flow rate
https://www.constructionknowledge.net/p … design.pdf

SpaceNut · 2020-11-02 20:11:45

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut re
You are on a roll today, with the (to me amazing) links you've provided in several topics!
The water flow rate calculations (with multiple charts) was really something (for me at least) to see!
Regarding Calliban's original concept ... it occurred to me to ask Google how the engineers who designed the Alaska pipeline (I'm not sure which one the quote below is for) planned to deal with the issues Calliban raised ...
Alyeska Pipeline - TAPS - Pipeline Operations - Pump Stations
www.alyeska-pipe.com/TAPS/PipelineOperations/PumpStations
The Trans Alaska Pipeline System was originally designed to operate with 12 pump stations. Only 11 were built due to overall pumping efficiency. With today’s throughput and pump station upgrades through the Electrification & Automation project, only four pump stations are in use today. Pump Stations 1, 3, 4 and 9 currently pump oil through TAPS. Pump Stations 3, 4 and 9 have been retrofitted with new E&A pumps …
I am amazed to see how much technology has improved from the time the original design was finalized, to today's four pumps able to perform the entire job.
In the context of a Mars pipeline, I would expect there would be planning for similar in pipeline pumps to maintain pressure against the inevitable losses. I'm pretty sure that oil is heated for transfer through the Alaska pipeline, but would have to go back to be sure. However, in the case of the Mars brine pipeline, I would think that heating (using solar panels for input) would make sense, to ease the burden on the pumps.
I noticed that the charts SpaceNut found reached all the way up to the 12 inch diameter that Calliban had mentioned.
Brine may well have different characteristics that plain water.
The article with the charts mentioned smoothness of the pipe as a factor determining losses.
(th)

Void · 2020-12-04 19:34:46

I feel that this article has importance to this topic. This topic and the ice covered bioreactors notion along with it.

https://phys.org/news/2020-11-tech-oxyg … salty.html

Not Done.......

Last edited by Void (2020-12-04 19:36:48)

tahanson43206 · 2020-12-04 21:32:13

For Void re #139

It is good to see this report in this topic!

It had appeared previously in another topic, but since it was missed there it has another chance for visibility here!

I looked for the earlier post but did not find it, so your presentation of the research is clearly needed.

The claim of efficiency of 25 times improvement (relative to MOXIE) is remarkable.

The system developed in Ramani's lab can produce 25 times more oxygen than MOXIE using the same amount of power. It also produces hydrogen, which could be used to fuel astronauts' trip home.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-12-05 09:14:43

Water is a concentrated form which contains oxygen gaseous co2 is not and that is why you get the change number.

Edit
Void is correct as they are an apple and orange comparison and are not performing the bond breakdown in the same manner.
Also brine water will have many minerals with in it if found free standing to make use of which is a whole new problem for the electrolysis equipment.

When computer is up we can make a new topic.

tahanson43206 · 2020-12-05 11:45:51

For SpaceNut re #141

Your observation about water being concentrated as compared to the atmosphere of Mars is interesting (to me for sure!).

The system developed in Ramani's lab can produce 25 times more oxygen than MOXIE using the same amount of power. It also produces hydrogen, which could be used to fuel astronauts' trip home.

Some of that 25 times greater energy may be consumed trying to compress the gas mixture before it is processed.

I'll have to go back to the MOXIE source materials to be sure.

However, the article about the new technology very clearly points out the critical difference that MOXIE uses "high temperature" electrolysis.

I would expect to find that heating the material to be processed is a significant contributor to the energy difference.

Edit#1: A search using Google did not turn up a specific analysis of how power is consumed in MOXIE.

However, one of the articles did remind readers:

The net reaction is thus 2CO2 [longrightarrow] 2CO + O2

MOXIE delivers ** both ** components of a propellant combination that could be used to leave Mars.

Now I'd have to go back to the improved water/brine experiment to see what it's outputs were at 25% energy improvement.

MOXIE can be set up anywhere on Mars.

The brine system would (of course) have to set up where brine is available.

Bringing the discussion back to the topic:

Brine ** can ** be shipped around Mars via pipelines.

(th)

Void · 2020-12-05 12:15:50

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Good observations (th).
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Spacenut,
Yes, the machine that can use cold brine at Martian temperatures and pressures.
I did work in Metrology, and on in the use and maintenance of various types of measuring devices. I am aware of what specsmanship is. You often compair apples and oranges and try to make sense of what the specs really mean.
So, for now I will accept their claim of 25 times as much Oxygen as for Moxie for amount of energy consumed, but with reservations. I presume the Hydrogen produced will be in the expected proportions.
If it is even partiall true it is exciting. If true it would also indicate that Starship will need much less effort to refuel, which will be very important.
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The article, if it measures to the numbers they give on energy efficiency, changes calculations on many thing.
In this case I am thinking agriculture. There are 3 that I can think of direct solar, artifical lighting, and chemosynthesis.
Because it appears that the Oxygen and Hydrogen production device is 25 times better than Moxie, at least for producing Oxygen, I now give much greater weight to chemosyntheis.
Methanogens are what I am interested in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanogen

Methanogens are microorganisms that produce methane as a metabolic byproduct in hypoxic conditions. They are prokaryotic and belong to the domain of archaea. They are common in wetlands, where they are responsible for marsh gas, and in the digestive tracts of animals such as ruminants and many humans, where they are responsible for the methane content of belching in ruminants and flatulence in humans.[1] In marine sediments, the biological production of methane, also termed methanogenesis, is generally confined to where sulfates are depleted, below the top layers.[2] Moreover, methanogenic archaea populations play an indispensable role in anaerobic wastewater treatments.[3] Others are extremophiles, found in environments such as hot springs and submarine hydrothermal vents as well as in the "solid" rock of Earth's crust, kilometers below the surface.

As some of these dwell in the ocean debths, I anticipate that they can be tollerant of colder temperatures.
Generally their diet can be Hydrogen and CO2. The outputs are Methane and biomass.
Of course I am thinking of an ice slab, per Arcadia Planetia. The aproximate size of Californian and Texas, having a depth of 130 feet or 40 Meters.
So, a vast area, and if it was decided to cover it even in part with solar panels as an energy souce. Using that electricity primarily to generate Oxygen and Hydrogen, then a chemical energy source is a reasonable plan.
As for the Oxygen, I guess that could be transported by various means to a location for use. I suppose a pipeline, but I would be afraid of it burning the pipe. So, I offer the notion that it could be diluted with another gas(s). Prefered would be a N2/Argon mix as a remnant from injecting Martian atmosphere and supplying H2 to the critters.
The Methanogens would be very sensitive to Oxygen, so in initiating an ice covered pool, it would likely be necessary to "Scrub" the Perchlorates out, perhaps with microbes that like to consume it.
As for the Martian air injected, it also has a small amount of Oxygen, so microbes suitable will be needed to consume it before the other components of the atmosphere are exposed to the Mathanogens.
I have provided a paint diagram of a Diving Bell / Egg Shell structure to immerse in the cold water. It should explain itself.

So in this scheme I am thinking Solar, but it can be adapted to also use Nuclear, either and/or Fusion. So, it will be updatable as technology advances.
In the solar mode, I would plan to cover vast sections of the ice with "Sheds" which would include solar pannels on the roofs. This would collect energy, and also shade and cool the ice.
The water below would be heated both by the metabolic actions of the Mathanogens, and from the habitats that would be immersed in the water.
If in the future it was desired, then energy could be gathered 24/7, by rejecting excess heat from the water, into the universe, using compenents of the "Sheds" as the heat rejection devices.
The interior of the "Sheds" would be relativly clean of Martian dust contaminants, and could contain large amounts of automation and robotics to produce goods.
As for the methanogenic archaea, they could be filtered out of the cold water as biomass. Brine Shrimp can consume them, so I presume that they could be used as feed for other livestock.
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While I see that much of the ice slab(s) could be delt with this way, there is no reason that in places you could not have other installations such as greenhouses and domes that directly use sunlight.
Also in places it might make sense to make a polder, with berms or regolith and drain water out of them so that you could build structures that could have good foundations on bedrock.
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So, I think this is pretty good.
Concerns would be conditions where the underlying permafrost might melt from under the cold water. So, then it is desired that the water be cold. If the permafrost floor were to melt, then perhaps the water would drain down to the aquifer, which it thought to exist about 2500 feet / 750 meters down. That would most likely not be desirable. But the permafrost on Mars is extremely thick so it should be possible to deal with that potential.
As for the brines presumed to be in that aquifer, they could be extracted and the materials mined from them.
So, this could be a very prosperous way to deal with what Mars has to offer in many places, it seems.
Done.

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#126 2020-02-10 22:19:07

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#127 2020-02-11 16:53:35

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#128 2020-10-19 20:14:59

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#129 2020-10-20 13:17:22

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#130 2020-10-21 13:13:59

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#131 2020-10-21 19:50:16

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#132 2020-10-23 17:04:15

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#133 2020-10-23 19:03:47

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#134 2020-10-23 19:45:10

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#135 2020-10-25 10:11:33

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#136 2020-11-02 20:10:49

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#137 2020-11-02 20:11:25

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#138 2020-11-02 20:11:45

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#139 2020-12-04 19:34:46

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#140 2020-12-04 21:32:13

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#141 2020-12-05 09:14:43

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#142 2020-12-05 11:45:51

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#143 2020-12-05 12:15:50

Re: Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

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