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#1 2020-02-02 20:14:16

Ancient Mars
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2020-02-01
Posts: 8

Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

Dramatic title, I know, but I was just thinking how crewed space missions in general seem to follow a chain of command, with positions like "Commander" and "Spaceflight Participant." This chain of command culminates with whatever organization is funding/directing the mission, e.g. SpaceX or NASA. In the case of a mars colony, this organization will ultimately lay down the law and serve as the de facto government of the mars colony.
This may be necessary during the early stages of colonization, but at what point will a different government, a democracy where the people of mars rule, be established? Or will it ever, dooming the martian settlers to eternal enslavement to Earth?

Just my thoughts of course. Tell me what you think! smile

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#2 2020-02-03 04:35:47

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

I hope that Space X will lay out a road map to a self-governing society, in accord with democratic principles. In my view the "road map" should be related to the number of long term residents (maybe staying more than two years will qualify you as an LTR). So to begin with the Mars Government would comprise only appointees from say companies and other organisations e.g. universities with a significant presence on Mars. But as each milestone is reached the number of elected representatives increases. So maybe for 1000 it's 10% of the governing council are elected, rising in 10% stages until you get to 100% for a population of 10,000.

I think the inhabitants of Mars should declare themselves a self-governing republic for the whole planet as soon as possible and adopt a democratic constitution.

Ancient Mars wrote:

Dramatic title, I know, but I was just thinking how crewed space missions in general seem to follow a chain of command, with positions like "Commander" and "Spaceflight Participant." This chain of command culminates with whatever organization is funding/directing the mission, e.g. SpaceX or NASA. In the case of a mars colony, this organization will ultimately lay down the law and serve as the de facto government of the mars colony.
This may be necessary during the early stages of colonization, but at what point will a different government, a democracy where the people of mars rule, be established? Or will it ever, dooming the martian settlers to eternal enslavement to Earth?

Just my thoughts of course. Tell me what you think! smile

Last edited by louis (2020-02-03 08:03:27)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#3 2020-03-07 10:49:52

Dayton3
Member
Registered: 2002-06-03
Posts: 137

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

Strictly my opinion,  but "self governing" won't come until Mars becomes "self supporting" which means it is largely a question of economics rather than one of politics and governance.

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#4 2020-03-07 11:51:09

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

Sorry - was repeating myself there!


Ancient Mars wrote:

Dramatic title, I know, but I was just thinking how crewed space missions in general seem to follow a chain of command, with positions like "Commander" and "Spaceflight Participant." This chain of command culminates with whatever organization is funding/directing the mission, e.g. SpaceX or NASA. In the case of a mars colony, this organization will ultimately lay down the law and serve as the de facto government of the mars colony.
This may be necessary during the early stages of colonization, but at what point will a different government, a democracy where the people of mars rule, be established? Or will it ever, dooming the martian settlers to eternal enslavement to Earth?

Just my thoughts of course. Tell me what you think! smile

Last edited by louis (2020-03-07 11:52:39)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#5 2020-03-07 12:01:46

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

It will certainly help. But even more important I think is whether the sponsors of settlement really want self-government on Mars. Musk has certainly suggested he does.

Dayton3 wrote:

Strictly my opinion,  but "self governing" won't come until Mars becomes "self supporting" which means it is largely a question of economics rather than one of politics and governance.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#6 2020-03-07 12:58:04

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,905
Website

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

Ancient Mars: welcome! I see you're from Canada. I have posted about this before. Could I propose an answer to your question? My same old idea. I'll try to keep it short.

First: St. John's, Newfoundland, as the historical model. It wasn't founded by any government, it started as a fishing camp; to fish the Grand Banks. Fishermen from many countries. The camp grew to a village, then a town, then a city. It was founded almost a century before any government colonies. Government colonies were abject failures, most or all people died. But St. John's succeeded and thrived. So I don't think the first Mars settlement will be by government at all, it'll be private business. That means free of Earth governments right from the start.

Second: my proposed organization. Corporate government. My vision is a national government for all of Mars, with minimum authority and minimum regulation. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steel, other than that you're pretty much on your own dude! Of course lawyers will make it more complicated: assault, battery, attempted murder, theft, robbery, extortion, embezzlement, etc, etc. But you get the idea. And the national government will run the land title registry, so you have to buy land from them. So Mars will not be separated into different countries, there will be one "country" for all of Mars and both moons. No countries, no states, no provinces, no counties, no shires, etc, etc. There will be municipalities: villages, towns, cities. And a city will only be granted as much land as a city; they will not be allowed to establish themselves as a state or county (no loop-holes). Municipalities will not be allowed to maintain a military, and will not be allowed to possess military weapons: tanks, fighter jets, mortars, missiles, etc. However they will have a police force, armed with regular police weapons: pistol, taser, etc. One role of the national government is to ensure municipalities do not go to war with each other. But since national laws will be minimal, that means cities will effectively be city states. They can decide how they're organized, they can decide their own bylaws, etc. A lot of things that are federal or state/provincial law in Canada and the US, will be city bylaw on Mars.

I use the Australian word "outback" for land outside any municipality. There's no wildlife so you can't call it "wilderness". Any homestead established in the outback will not be part of any municipality. There will not be any "rural municipalities" on Mars. So that means any homestead will only be subject to national laws, nothing else.

How's that?

Last edited by RobertDyck (2020-03-07 12:58:26)

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#7 2020-03-07 17:57:33

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

My concern is that if Space X don't move fast to create a self-governing colony China will put in a huge national effort to establish what will be, in effect, military bases. This is not Sinophobia on my part - if it was democratic Taiwan seeking to establish bases on Mars that would be a wholly different matter. But the PRC has been implicated in over 50 million political deaths, aggressive military action (against India, Vietnam, South Korea, Russia and now its neighbours in the South China Sea), eugenics, racial discrimination, cultural genocide and the worst political repression seen on Earth. Is that what we really want on Mars? I say no.

I don't disagree with your idea of self-governing settlements or provinces within a single Mars Republic. But I think the central government has to be strong enough to prevent unapproved bases being set up by Earth powers. That might be easier than you would think. The advantage will always be with the people of Mars, even a small community of say 10,000 could see off an attempt to set up a base.

I would recommend a law be passed that no energy system can be used to supply power to more than 10 people without approve of the Mars government. The central government could cut cables at an unauthorised base.


RobertDyck wrote:

Ancient Mars: welcome! I see you're from Canada. I have posted about this before. Could I propose an answer to your question? My same old idea. I'll try to keep it short.

First: St. John's, Newfoundland, as the historical model. It wasn't founded by any government, it started as a fishing camp; to fish the Grand Banks. Fishermen from many countries. The camp grew to a village, then a town, then a city. It was founded almost a century before any government colonies. Government colonies were abject failures, most or all people died. But St. John's succeeded and thrived. So I don't think the first Mars settlement will be by government at all, it'll be private business. That means free of Earth governments right from the start.

Second: my proposed organization. Corporate government. My vision is a national government for all of Mars, with minimum authority and minimum regulation. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steel, other than that you're pretty much on your own dude! Of course lawyers will make it more complicated: assault, battery, attempted murder, theft, robbery, extortion, embezzlement, etc, etc. But you get the idea. And the national government will run the land title registry, so you have to buy land from them. So Mars will not be separated into different countries, there will be one "country" for all of Mars and both moons. No countries, no states, no provinces, no counties, no shires, etc, etc. There will be municipalities: villages, towns, cities. And a city will only be granted as much land as a city; they will not be allowed to establish themselves as a state or county (no loop-holes). Municipalities will not be allowed to maintain a military, and will not be allowed to possess military weapons: tanks, fighter jets, mortars, missiles, etc. However they will have a police force, armed with regular police weapons: pistol, taser, etc. One role of the national government is to ensure municipalities do not go to war with each other. But since national laws will be minimal, that means cities will effectively be city states. They can decide how they're organized, they can decide their own bylaws, etc. A lot of things that are federal or state/provincial law in Canada and the US, will be city bylaw on Mars.

I use the Australian word "outback" for land outside any municipality. There's no wildlife so you can't call it "wilderness". Any homestead established in the outback will not be part of any municipality. There will not be any "rural municipalities" on Mars. So that means any homestead will only be subject to national laws, nothing else.

How's that?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#8 2020-03-07 18:16:41

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,905
Website

Re: Keeping future mars colony from becoming slaves to Earth

louis wrote:

I would recommend a law be passed that no energy system can be used to supply power to more than 10 people without approve of the Mars government. The central government could cut cables at an unauthorised base.

I'm not comfortable with that restriction. The national government controlling power? Instead, my proposal would establish a land title registry. Anyone trying to establish a base on Mars without authorization from the national government will get a nasty visit from the Mars national police. And the national government will have to establish a military at some point. Before there is a military, the national police SWAT team (aka Tactical Team) will have access to military weapons that municipalities will not be allowed to possess. But yea, cutting power cables to an unauthorized base would be one tactic they could do.

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