Hydrogen Production Moving to Mainstream Green solution

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-17 21:10:27

For SpaceNut ... I checked for this title all the way back to 2005 and did not find it.

Hopefully this topic will win some updates in the current period.

The article at the link below reports on industry efforts to learn how to use hydrogen for heat intensive processes that until now have relied upon fossil fuels.

Apparently there is a level of stockholder and stakeholder pressure that is incentivizing some industries to look for ways to make hydrogen without generating CO2.

The connection I see to the Mars enterprise is that increased production of hydrogen and reduced costs may help to reduce costs to launch payloads to LEO and beyond.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/fuel … 28443.html

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-18 10:37:20

The green creation of hydrogen has been an ongoing for a couple of decades now wit the cost of CO2 being the issue for why do it as the global warming has been said to be not real by many that make no money from going against its alternative energy sources. The fuel cell topics contain materials on where we have gone with the regulations, handling and explosiveness of its use. Much like propane, natural gass we would need to add in an odor to allow for detection of leaks. We will need to add in other safe guards to the tank which holds the gas as we will be using it under pressure. Possibly some solutions will have a blend of gasses mixed with the hydrogen to aid in making it less hazardous.
A title that comes to mind in the hydrogen economy where the gas is made from solar for home use and for hybird cars which use a fuel cell to creat power for driving.
What makes it green is the no use of fossil fuels in any form to create the hydrogen to work from.

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-18 13:01:25

For Louis re topic ...

Louis, at present, the cost of production of hydrogen from wind, solar power, or solar power satellites (probably or almost certainly) exceeds of the cost of production of hydrogen from fossil fuel sources. However, in light of the perceived need by some humans to eliminate the use of fossil fuels altogether, I'm wondering what the green premium might be?

In other words, what do you think the business case might be for taking the risk of investing in green hydrogen production facilities in light of the potential demand for green hydrogen?

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-18 16:47:39

Related topics
Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Hydrogen Car Powered by Expansion of Liquid H2

Hydrogen bad for the environment?

The itemized cost of each when you figure in the equipment maintenance, storage, the source of water quality, are just some of the things that are never put into the numbers. The fact is most only see the fact that the source to make the device work as being the only free aspect to the gain.

louis · 2019-11-18 17:35:05

If we are talking about a hydrogen economy on Earth, I don't really see hydrogen as the real green solution. Hydrogen storage is problematic from lots of points of view, meaning it ends up being v. expensive. Just adding a bit of hydrogen to methane supply is not really a game-changer.

It might be possible to have central hydrogen facilities for electricity generation (to even out wind, solar and other green energy sources).

I see methane manufacture as the way forward, as in many countries we already have a methane-based infrastructure, so you can use it for heating as well as electricity generation (to even out intermittent energy sources). I think if you can get green energy costs down to 1 cent per KwH, it will definitely be possible to manufacture methane at a marginal cost that makes green energy cost-competitive across the board. It might be possible now in some climates with even higher costs...some climates have fairly consistent wind or solar, and so you need to cover fewer lengthy gaps in generation.

elderflower · 2019-11-19 16:25:05

For a liquid fuel, it is easy to manufacture methanol which will work in most of our liquid fuelled devices with relatively minor modifications and which can be reformed to give Hydrogen and CO. The CO is burned to heat the reformer and the hydrogen is fed to a fuel cell for electricity production. CO2 is released and must be recaptured.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-19 18:49:45

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/ … e-stopped/

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles … en-economy

http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/vie … enewables/

http://www.naturalfinance.net/2019/09/r … omics.html

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files … erview.pdf
The U.S. Department of Energy Hydrogen and Fuel Cells

Calliban · 2019-11-20 17:30:53

Hydrogen has poor cycle efficiency as an energy storage medium. First, about a third of electricity is lost as heat in the electrolysis stack.

The energy cost of storing hydrogen depends upon its mode of storage. It is relatively cheap to store in a lightly pressurised gasometer arrangement. But capacity is limited. Compressing hydrogen to 300bar would consume another 10% energy content and the hydrogen would gradually leak through seals. Liquefaction allows hydrogen to be stored long-term as a liquid at 20K. But the energy cost is equivalent to about one third of the energy content of the liquid hydrogen. Ultimately, electrical power can be recovered in a fuel cell or, more likely, a combined cycle gas turbine plant. Both have realistic efficiency of about 50%. Add all efficiencies together and you get 22-33%.

In terms of bulk energy storage, it might be cheaper to store thermal energy in rock by means of electric heating elements. This can be recovered as steam passing through pipes in the hot rock, which generates electricity in a turbine. Storage efficiency would be 30-50%. Whilst this is better than hydrogen, it is still not fantastic. But the system is simpler overall and a single cubic metre of basalt heated to 1000C would store nearly 3GJ of energy.

In terms of whole system cost, thermal energy storage is hard to beat. Hydrogen has the advantage of being a useful chemical reagent. If you want to reduce metal ores or manufacture plastics, hydrogen is an intermediate product that is likely to be useful. Storage isn't very important, because the hydrogen is likely to be used rapidly after it is produced.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-11-20 17:37:41)

louis · 2019-11-20 17:49:34

There are plenty of elevated craters on Mars. They would probably make perfect reservoirs for pumped storage. They might need to be lined with clay. They might need to be covered with a floating aerogel layer to help retain heat and keep the water liquid...that could also be achieved by using fixed reflectors to shine light on to the crater.

Calliban wrote:

Hydrogen has poor cycle efficiency as an energy storage medium. First, about a third of electricity is lost as heat in the electrolysis stack.
The energy cost of storing hydrogen depends upon its mode of storage. It is relatively cheap to store in a lightly pressurised gasometer arrangement. But capacity is limited. Compressing hydrogen to 300bar would consume another 10% energy content and the hydrogen would gradually leak through seals. Liquefaction allows hydrogen to be stored long-term as a liquid at 20K. But the energy cost is equivalent to about one third of the energy content of the liquid hydrogen. Ultimately, electrical power can be recovered in a fuel cell or, more likely, a combined cycle gas turbine plant. Both have realistic efficiency of about 50%. Add all efficiencies together and you get 22-33%.
In terms of bulk energy storage, it might be cheaper to store thermal energy in rock by means of electric heating elements. This can be recovered as steam passing through pipes in the hot rock, which generates electricity in a turbine. Storage efficiency would be 30-50%. Whilst this is better than hydrogen, it is still not fantastic. But the system is simpler overall and a single cubic metre of basalt heated to 1000C would store nearly 3GJ of energy.
In terms of whole system cost, thermal energy storage is hard to beat. Hydrogen has the advantage of being a useful chemical reagent. If you want to reduce metal ores or manufacture plastics, hydrogen is an intermediate product that is likely to be useful. Storage isn't very important, because the hydrogen is likely to be used rapidly after it is produced.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-20 18:49:10

Calliban Is correct about heat lose of conversion from water to gas and then to compress it for later use but for mars we can recapture that low energy heat with pellitier devices. These work create power from the heat differential from the surface of the electrolysis unit to the cold of mars and the same can be had with the tank storage as well as the compressor.
The next factor for both with the creation of heatis the speed of raction and of compressing values as the smaller the delta is the lower the temperatures will be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_hydrogen
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb … phase.html

Calliban · 2019-11-22 00:55:32

Methane-oxygen would appear to be problematic as a bulk energy storage solution, on Earth or Mars.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction

"A variation of the basic Sabatier methanation reaction may be used via a mixed catalyst bed and a reverse water gas shift in a single reactor to produce methane from the raw materials available on Mars, utilising carbon dioxide in the Martian atmosphere. A 2011 prototype test operation that harvested CO2 from a simulated Martian atmosphere and reacted it with H2, produced methane rocket propellant at a rate of 1 kg/day, operating autonomously for 5 consecutive days, maintaining a nearly 100% conversion rate. An optimised system of this design massing 50 kg "is projected to produce 1 kg/day of O2:CH4 propellant ... with a methane purity of 98+% while consuming 700 Watts of electrical power. Overall unit conversion rate expected from the optimised system is one tonne of propellant per 17 MWh energy input.[25]"

By my reckoning, even an optimised system will have an efficiency of 18%. If the methane is then burned in an IC engine or gas turbine with an efficiency of 30%; overall efficiency drops to around 5.4%. Not something that would be affordable as anything other than a niche application, maybe used in emergencies.

Pumped storage has better efficiency on the face of it. However, water will not be cheap on Mars. It must be melted and pumped from deep buried glaciers at an energy cost of 1MJ per kg. It must also be kept liquid, which implies either heating it or storing it as brine, which would suffer corrosion problems. On Earth, in places where pumped storage is used, the water is available for free and it remains liquid at typical temperatures. A Martian system might use liquid CO2. But this must be kept under a pressure of at least several bars to remain liquid. That implies that the storage lake is built at a pressure vessel.

We have already discussed hydrogen. On Mars, we must keep both hydrogen and oxygen in separate pressurised containers. This would require either steel or polymer vessels, or underground reservoirs that are excavated and covered over with a mass of covering material. Either way, it is a lot of effort and a lot of embodied energy.

All things considered, the storage of energy would appear to be expensive, however it be done. On Earth, we tend not to do things this way. Most bulk energy supply is controllable according to demand. Wind and solar power are simply extensions of the fossil fuel energy system. Fossil fuels are used to refine and smelt the metals used to make these systems. They are used to transport and assemble the machines. And when power is produced by a wind or solar power plant, it offsets the output of another controllable (fossil) power plant.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-11-22 01:21:24)

Terraformer · 2019-11-22 03:50:40

Compressed gas energy storage discussion

There was a thread about storing power by freezing CO2 during the night and expanding it during the day, as well. It had better than 100% efficiency as storage, so we would actually be getting slightly more power back out than it took to freeze/liquefy the CO2.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-22 18:02:56

We do have the home page article http://newmars.com/2018/11/on-mars-air- … r-storage/
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8812
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3479
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6040
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8251
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=282

tahanson43206 · 2020-01-21 19:14:58

Here is an update for use of hydrogen in commerce .... the focus here is on over-the-road trucking.

Apparently investments are yielding systems that are competitive with battery approaches.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hydr … 39844.html

The ability to compete on price with diesel fuel is limited to selected markets, according to the article.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-01-21 19:16:41)

tahanson43206 · 2021-03-07 08:24:59

This topic has been waiting for an announcement like this one ...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/saud … 22174.html

Verity Ratcliffe
Sat, March 6, 2021, 11:00 PM
(Bloomberg) -- Sun-scorched expanses and steady Red Sea breezes make the northwest tip of Saudi Arabia prime real estate for what the kingdom hopes will become a global hub for green hydrogen.
As governments and industries seek less-polluting alternatives to hydrocarbons, the world’s biggest crude exporter doesn’t want to cede the burgeoning hydrogen business to China, Europe or Australia and lose a potentially massive source of income. So it’s building a $5 billion plant powered entirely by sun and wind that will be among the world’s biggest green hydrogen makers when it opens in the planned megacity of Neom in 2025.

This is ** such ** a logical move! What is astonishing is to see someone in the oil dependent region thinking this far ahead.

(th)

Calliban · 2021-03-24 16:04:48

The latest article from Tim Morgan's Surplus Energy Economics blog makes interesting reading.
https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpres … for-money/

Beginning in the 1990s, economists and policy makers noticed a puzzling trend of economic deceleration in Western countries. The cause was a mystery to them at the time. We now know that this was due to the drag on economic growth imposed by rising 'Energy Cost of Energy' or conversely, falling EROI of end use energy supply. The financial deregulation of 1990s, allowed debt to grow much faster; loosened lending criteria and reduced requirements for financial transparency, allowing the development of derivatives as financial instruments. These trends allowed debt to increase much faster and the hope was that this would push along economic growth. What it in fact did was to allow a growing divergence between the financial system and the real economy of goods and services. This reached a crisis point in 2005, as the peaking of world conventional oil production led to rising oil prices. This stoked inflation in the price of real goods and commodities, leading to interest rate rises in 2006. This resulted in insolvency amongst marginal debtors, triggering the banking crisis of 2007 and the financial crisis of 2007-2009. Between the mid 1990s and 2006, asset valuations grew explosively and interest rates gradually fell in an attempt to make debt more affordable. This is a trend that would accelerate after the financial crisis, as interest rates minus inflation fell to zero or even went negative and huge quantities of new money, created out of nothing by central banks, were poured in asset markets of every kind.

Where do we go from here? The graphs in Tim's report are especially telling. Much of the recorded GDP growth in Western countries since 2000, is the result of asset price accumulation that results from the spending of borrowed money. When this is accounted for, real world economic growth barely exceeded 1% since the turn of the century. Even this does not include the proportion of growth that stems from increasing investment in energy as a ECoE relentlessly rises and ERoEI relentlessly falls. When this is accounted for, real prosperity has remained more or less flat since the turn of the century, with growth in developing countries offset by decline in developed countries. In the developed world, real prosperity per capita has been falling for some time. After tax prosperity per capital is now substantially down compared to what it was in 2000 in most Western countries. After 2019, global per capita prosperity began to decline as well.

The continuous rapid growth in debt and financial commitments against declining individual prosperity, suggests that we headed for a rerun of the 2008. This time, the much greater value of outstanding financial commitments suggest that another crisis could threaten the existence of many currencies.

Economies have ECoE ceilings, beyond which real economic growth becomes impossible. Estimates vary as to the minimum ERoEI that a society can tolerate. This generally depends on the complexity of the economy. Industrialised countries like the UK, US and Japan, began experiencing secular stagnation when ECoE exceeded about 4%. The problem is that to keep industrial countries going, a lot of surplus energy is needed to use and maintain infrastructure, as well as provide necessities of life, like food, heat and water. Motorways and other infrastructure need to be maintained, and this requires a lot of energy. For this reason, falling surplus energy directly reduces the amount of energy invested in economic growth. Eventually, as appears to have happened in Western countries, the rate of new grown declined to zero as ECOEs continue to rise.

The ECoE for renewable energy sources appears to be declining towards and leveling off at an ECoE of around 10%. It is not known how Tim Morgan calculates this, or whether it includes any assumptions on the energy costs associated with intermittent energy. But regardless, a 10% ECoE will result in contuing decline in per capita prosperity in Western countries, as the surplus energy is insufficient to allow maintenance of infrastructure. Whilst RE has important niche applications, it is incapable of powering industrial civilisation as we we know it.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-03-24 17:18:00)

SpaceNut · 2021-04-28 17:32:16

A source of water some power plus the electrolysis device and we have HHO being made.

Video of device build.

https://youtu.be/KDtxZc2UWqU

kbd512 · 2021-05-01 20:08:32

Both Propane and Ammonia as Hydrogen energy carriers are more practical than pure Hydrogen or pure Methane, which are either low energy density gases without insulation and/or active cooling, or actively-cooled deeply cryogenic liquids if more compact storage is desired. Ammonia and Propane are the only types of room-temperature-liquid (with heavy duty truck tire pressurization levels) fuels that work equally well in fuel cells, gasoline piston engines, diesel piston engines, and gas turbine engines. If storability, energy density, the cost of converting existing engines to use the fuels in question, and the cost of using existing processes are all taken into consideration, then Propane or Ammonia are the most practical synthetic fuel alternatives to gasoline / diesel / kerosene.

SpaceNut · 2021-05-01 21:44:10

It was when the price of gasoline reached the $4 mark that alternative made fuels were the rage.
https://energypost.eu/extract-co2-from- … tic-fuels/

Ammonia cost vary and are measure in unit ton costs
https://www.duncanseddon.com/docs/pdf/a … -costs.pdf

louis · 2021-05-02 06:18:40

"noticed a puzzling trend of economic deceleration in Western countries"

1. Nothing to do with outsourcing all your manufacturing to the Far East (China, Korea and Japan) then...

2. Why only Western countries? Declining EROI relates to ALL countries. Since the 1990s we've seen record rises in World GDP.

Calliban wrote:

The latest article from Tim Morgan's Surplus Energy Economics blog makes interesting reading.
https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpres … for-money/
Beginning in the 1990s, economists and policy makers noticed a puzzling trend of economic deceleration in Western countries. The cause was a mystery to them at the time. We now know that this was due to the drag on economic growth imposed by rising 'Energy Cost of Energy' or conversely, falling EROI of end use energy supply. The financial deregulation of 1990s, allowed debt to grow much faster; loosened lending criteria and reduced requirements for financial transparency, allowing the development of derivatives as financial instruments. These trends allowed debt to increase much faster and the hope was that this would push along economic growth. What it in fact did was to allow a growing divergence between the financial system and the real economy of goods and services. This reached a crisis point in 2005, as the peaking of world conventional oil production led to rising oil prices. This stoked inflation in the price of real goods and commodities, leading to interest rate rises in 2006. This resulted in insolvency amongst marginal debtors, triggering the banking crisis of 2007 and the financial crisis of 2007-2009. Between the mid 1990s and 2006, asset valuations grew explosively and interest rates gradually fell in an attempt to make debt more affordable. This is a trend that would accelerate after the financial crisis, as interest rates minus inflation fell to zero or even went negative and huge quantities of new money, created out of nothing by central banks, were poured in asset markets of every kind.
Where do we go from here? The graphs in Tim's report are especially telling. Much of the recorded GDP growth in Western countries since 2000, is the result of asset price accumulation that results from the spending of borrowed money. When this is accounted for, real world economic growth barely exceeded 1% since the turn of the century. Even this does not include the proportion of growth that stems from increasing investment in energy as a ECoE relentlessly rises and ERoEI relentlessly falls. When this is accounted for, real prosperity has remained more or less flat since the turn of the century, with growth in developing countries offset by decline in developed countries. In the developed world, real prosperity per capita has been falling for some time. After tax prosperity per capital is now substantially down compared to what it was in 2000 in most Western countries. After 2019, global per capita prosperity began to decline as well.
The continuous rapid growth in debt and financial commitments against declining individual prosperity, suggests that we headed for a rerun of the 2008. This time, the much greater value of outstanding financial commitments suggest that another crisis could threaten the existence of many currencies.
Economies have ECoE ceilings, beyond which real economic growth becomes impossible. Estimates vary as to the minimum ERoEI that a society can tolerate. This generally depends on the complexity of the economy. Industrialised countries like the UK, US and Japan, began experiencing secular stagnation when ECoE exceeded about 4%. The problem is that to keep industrial countries going, a lot of surplus energy is needed to use and maintain infrastructure, as well as provide necessities of life, like food, heat and water. Motorways and other infrastructure need to be maintained, and this requires a lot of energy. For this reason, falling surplus energy directly reduces the amount of energy invested in economic growth. Eventually, as appears to have happened in Western countries, the rate of new grown declined to zero as ECOEs continue to rise.
The ECoE for renewable energy sources appears to be declining towards and leveling off at an ECoE of around 10%. It is not known how Tim Morgan calculates this, or whether it includes any assumptions on the energy costs associated with intermittent energy. But regardless, a 10% ECoE will result in contuing decline in per capita prosperity in Western countries, as the surplus energy is insufficient to allow maintenance of infrastructure. Whilst RE has important niche applications, it is incapable of powering industrial civilisation as we we know it.

tahanson43206 · 2022-04-14 12:53:48

Here's a surprise (to me at least) ...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/egyp … 00470.html

Oilprice.com
How Egypt Could Become A Critical Energy Hub
Editor OilPrice.com
Wed, April 13, 2022, 6:00 PM
North African energy producer Egypt has an opportunity to become one of the most
important energy hubs on earth.
To begin with, it has become a focal point of European gas companies as the continent attempts to wean itself off Russian gas. At the same time, Cairo is attempting to take advantage of the global call for more clean energy. The Egyptian government is currently assessing its options to put in place a $40bn hydrogen strategy in 2022. The first steps towards this aggressive strategy are already receiving support from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD). The EBRD has signed an MOU with Egypt’s Ministry of Electricity and Renewable Energy and Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources to set up a framework to assess the potential of low-carbon hydrogen supply chains. Based on the EBRD info, which has been confirmed by Egyptian counterparts, the MOU covers mapping the current and future expected international supply and demand of the hydrogen market. It will include analyzing existing and potential hydrogen production in Egypt, while at the same time a valuation assessment of storage, conversion, and transport of hydrogen will be carried out. Egypt’s Minister of International Cooperation Rania Al Mashat stated that the hydrogen strategy will fall within the government’s broader plan to use clean and renewable energy. The new $40 billion hydrogen strategy will entail a production capacity of 1,400MW by 2030.
Alongside this $40bn strategy, Egypt has allocated several new areas around the Suez Canal Economic Zone for green hydrogen production. Egypt’s Prime Minister Moustafa Madbouly announced this allocation during a meeting with the EU Commission’s VP Frans Timmermans in Cairo. Both parties have been discussing increased cooperation in the energy sector, all with the support of Egyptian president El Sisi. The EU Commissioner is in Cairo in preparation for COP27, which is going to be held in Sharm El Sheikh in November 2022. Both parties have also reiterated the importance of cooperation when it comes to ensuring LNG and green hydrogen supplies for Europe. Egypt would play a central role in ensuring those supplies, acting as an energy hub. Egypt and the EU have also proposed the setup of a Mediterranean Green Hydrogen Partnership, focusing on hydrogen trade.
In recent weeks, several new project proposals have been published, including a 1GW liquid organic hydrogen carrier (LOHC) hub at Egypt’s East Port Said by US-based H2 Industries. At the same time, German engineering giant Siemens Energy plans a green hydrogen pilot project, while Belgium’s Dredging, Environmental & Marine Engineering Group is vying for another one. In 2021, the Sovereign Fund of Egypt (SFE) agreed to set up a 50MW-100MW electrolyzer facility to produce green hydrogen for green ammonia with Norway’s Scatec and UAE-based Fertiglobe. Italian oil and gas major ENI signed an agreement in 2021 with Egyptian Electricity Holding Company and Egyptian Natural Gas Holding Company to assess blue and green hydrogen projects. Egypt’s TAQA also signed an agreement to set up a pilot project for green hydrogen as a fuel for tourist buses with Germany’s MAN Energy Solutions.

Related: World’s Richest Have Taken A $400 Billion Wealth Cut Amid Ukraine Crisis
In March 2022, Norwegian company Scatec announced that it would build a 1 million tons per year green ammonia facility, with an option to reach 3 million tons per year, in Ain Sukhna, a Red Sea port within the Suez Canal Economic Zone. Last month, Yehia Zaki, chairman of the Suez Canal Commercial Zone, stated that there are plans to construct a further 220,000 tons per year green ammonia plant, with an estimated cost of $1bn. The green hydrogen would target maritime transportation companies as clients. The project plans emerged following discussions that Danish shipping giant Maersk held to set up “green marine fuels” production in Egypt. Maersk signed an MOU on March 28 with Egypt for a feasibility study, transforming hydrogen into green methanol.
Last week, Abu Dhabi company Al Nowais Group reported that it has submitted a proposal to the Egyptian Ministry of Electricity for a merger of its 500MW solar power projects with ADIA, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (SWF), hydrogen projects in Egypt. ADIA would become a partner in the ammonia production project.
The above moves are substantial, especially when looking at the growing role of Egypt’s offshore natural gas production, and the upcoming major Israeli natural gas exports to LNG regasification plants in the Nile Delta. Egypt could soon become a major energy hub by combining natural gas (LNG) in the East Med and its clearly commercially attractive position as a hydrogen producer and exporter. Egypt’s geographical importance as a trade route connecting Europe with Asia means it is uniquely positioned to impact the makeup of shipping fuels. If Cairo pushes for a major maritime bunkering position, combining Alexandria and Suez to use LNG and Hydrogen for shipping, new strategic options are going to be available. Making the Suez Canal area a low-carbon arena would be a win-win situation for all.
By Cyril Widdershoven for Oilprice.com

(th)

Terraformer · 2022-04-14 14:21:00

Hmm. Lots of solar power, and a canal to bring (salt) water right to them. I can see that. Hydrogen is tricky to store and transport, but if it's used straightaway for fertiliser production that's not an issue. Maybe Egypt will become a dominant exporter of nitrogen fertiliser (of course, there are plenty of other sunny places that could do this too, so the world wouldn't be beholden to them).

Calliban · 2022-04-14 16:03:48

Hydrogen has 11x greater global warming potential than CO2.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpre … ew-report/

And because its such a small molecule, you can guarantee that hydrogen containers and pipelines will leak like a sieve. I am inclined to agree with Terraformer. Hydrogen should be used as it is produced. Ore reduction. Ammonia production. Fossil fuel upgrading.

Terraformer · 2022-04-15 01:39:46

Maybe Australia will do quite well out of that. Lots of sunlight, and also abundant ore. Water can be transported via pipeline without much issue, it's a lot easier to handle that say oil, with less stringent safety requirements. Send it to the mines and do the reduction at source, lowering the mass needing to be transported away?

SpaceNut · 2022-05-26 17:49:12

Here is a generator powered by electrolysis of water
https://youtu.be/tn9P_aj4fGw

It walks through the diy build with common parts and equipment to build it

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2019-11-17 21:10:27

Hydrogen Production Moving to Mainstream Green solution

#2 2019-11-18 10:37:20

Re: Hydrogen Production Moving to Mainstream Green solution

#3 2019-11-18 13:01:25

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#13 2019-11-22 18:02:56

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#15 2021-03-07 08:24:59

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#17 2021-04-28 17:32:16

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#18 2021-05-01 20:08:32

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#19 2021-05-01 21:44:10

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#20 2021-05-02 06:18:40

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#21 2022-04-14 12:53:48

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#22 2022-04-14 14:21:00

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#23 2022-04-14 16:03:48

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#24 2022-04-15 01:39:46

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#25 2022-05-26 17:49:12

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