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We will see soon enough. Mueller's report goes to the new AG "soon". Whatever gets sent to Congress will become public very quickly, as congressmen from both houses are the worst leakers of classified information this country has ever seen.
Whether there was any active collusion between the Trump bunch and Russia is what Mueller was to find out. I think he found out, but hasn't made his report yet. So we do not know yet.
Other crimes uncovered along the way have been turned over to suitable authorities, just as they should have been, according to special counsel procedure.
Have patience, the end of this is coming. Sooner or later, we-the-people will know.
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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Great! I can't wait. The endless speculations and assertions without evidence are getting rather tiresome.
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The FBI are worse leakers, as we know. If there was anything in the Mueller report that came close to proving Trump-Russia collusion or conspiracy, we'd know by now.
We will see soon enough. Mueller's report goes to the new AG "soon". Whatever gets sent to Congress will become public very quickly, as congressmen from both houses are the worst leakers of classified information this country has ever seen.
Whether there was any active collusion between the Trump bunch and Russia is what Mueller was to find out. I think he found out, but hasn't made his report yet. So we do not know yet.
Other crimes uncovered along the way have been turned over to suitable authorities, just as they should have been, according to special counsel procedure.
Have patience, the end of this is coming. Sooner or later, we-the-people will know.
GW
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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Louis,
I'll make a little prediction here. The "report" from Mueller is going to be an ideology-driven narrative. It'll make lots of assertions and claims, provide no supporting evidence, and in the end the actual substance of the report will be completely ignored by the Democrats because it's a political toy for them to play with, much like border security, standing up for American workers, negotiating balanced trade deals, etc. The Democrats have an agenda to pursue and sadly, it's not doing anything positive for the American people.
The Democrats are the best story tellers in the world. They're superlative at ideology-driven narratives. The only real problem is that their ideology narratives are quite often diametrically-opposed to human nature, rule of law, and other concepts of extreme importance to advanced civilizations. There's so much hand-waving of substance, that it's been excluded in its entirety from the national conversation. All I hear from these people is "I think, I feel, I believe therefore whatever I do is justified." My response to that is "Uh, no, your ideology-driven religion is not an excuse for inexcusable behavior. Try again."
I miss the days when the Democrats stood up for the working men and women of America. As long as the ship is still afloat, the opportunity to change course is always present. I just wished that the people at the helm of the Democrat Party recognized that that light they see out in the distance is a lighthouse and it's firmly planted on an immovable object. Our ship is exceptionally sturdy, but it's not unsinkable.
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I agree there will be plenty of ammunition for the Democrats...but no "smoking gun".
Louis,
I'll make a little prediction here. The "report" from Mueller is going to be an ideology-driven narrative. It'll make lots of assertions and claims, provide no supporting evidence, and in the end the actual substance of the report will be completely ignored by the Democrats because it's a political toy for them to play with, much like border security, standing up for American workers, negotiating balanced trade deals, etc. The Democrats have an agenda to pursue and sadly, it's not doing anything positive for the American people.
The Democrats are the best story tellers in the world. They're superlative at ideology-driven narratives. The only real problem is that their ideology narratives are quite often diametrically-opposed to human nature, rule of law, and other concepts of extreme importance to advanced civilizations. There's so much hand-waving of substance, that it's been excluded in its entirety from the national conversation. All I hear from these people is "I think, I feel, I believe therefore whatever I do is justified." My response to that is "Uh, no, your ideology-driven religion is not an excuse for inexcusable behavior. Try again."
I miss the days when the Democrats stood up for the working men and women of America. As long as the ship is still afloat, the opportunity to change course is always present. I just wished that the people at the helm of the Democrat Party recognized that that light they see out in the distance is a lighthouse and it's firmly planted on an immovable object. Our ship is exceptionally sturdy, but it's not unsinkable.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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BTW, Mueller is a Republican.
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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So are the Bushes, so is Romney, so was McCain but they all hate(d) Trump and would want to see his Presidency destroyed. Actually "hate" doesn't really do their emotions justice!
BTW, Mueller is a Republican.
GW
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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GW,
BTW, President Trump was a Democrat for most of his life, too. Then he committed the "cardinal sin" of changing his opinion of what the Democrat Party was doing to the American people. Anybody who has a difference of opinion is to be demonized at every opportunity, called every name imaginable, and threatened profusely. Nary a thought was given to the consequences of such activities. The end justified the means. This New Democrat Party is a lot like Islam (Shia vs Sunni) or Christianity (Catholic vs Protestant) in that regard. In fact, it's well nigh unto impossible to distinguish between them when it comes to the virtue of their activities because, well, there isn't any.
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why defending America's borders is a bad idea (for America, not the people who wish to exploit America's porous borders for criminal purposes).
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why negotiating trade deals that are at least equitable is a bad idea.
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why unchecked criminality is laudable when one political party engages in it, but evil incarnate when another political party engages in such activities.
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why the President of the United States should not represent the interests of the United States, first and foremost.
President Trump's most unforgivable blunder was putting the good of the American people over foreign interests and inexcusably poor governance policies. That is quite clearly not part of the agenda of the Democrat Party or the Republican Party. By actions, not words, that is quite clearly President Trump's agenda and what he is most "guilty" of. That's why our political hacks on both extremes of the spectrum are so upset over his Presidency that they'll say or do virtually anything. He's made them all look like the ideology-driven mental midgets, who care nothing for their country, that they truly are. The American people were / are desperate for better opportunities and circumstances than what either political party had delivered to them in living memory.
The Republican Party once thought that they'd co-opt President Trump's administration to do their bidding. Instead, President Trump has co-opted the Republicans to finally do something useful for America. President Trump is a man without a party, a man without wealthy donors to lavish money on fellow partisan political hacks, and most prominently, a man of the people.
For someone purely interested in his own ego, he's put up with quite a bit of nastiness that he never suffered until he decided to be a Republican. There hasn't been a single ugly thing left unsaid about him, his family, his children, or even people who simply voted for him. You'll have to forgive those of us who think this looks a lot like partisan politics rather than an earnest attempt at redress of grievances.
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Borders are for
1. to define territory
2. to define friend or foe
3. you can pretend that you are better than your nieghbor but all that means is you are a racist
The short answer is that borders are meant to divide people. Borders are meant to oppress people. Borders are an invention of the elite to divide and conquer/control/oppress the masses of humanity. The very concept of a "nation" is oppressive and degrading. Borders are very important for territorial sovereignty, they also help get immigration and emigration. Borders are very important for political and economic reasons. They can make or destroy a country. Terrorists can infiltrate a country through its borders and coups can also happen through them, that's why it's very important to have borders.
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You are in deep philosophical and historical territory here...
Sadly your approach seems deeply ahistorical...
Are you really saying that in December 1941 President Roosevelt should have declared "This is a day that will live in history...today we have been reminded why borders are so evil and just how racist we have been to the Japanese. Yes, we know that many people of Japanese descent within our borders, as our security services tell us, have been feeding information back to their masters in Tokyo but let us forget all that and see what transpires...I am sure the Japanese Emperor will look kindly on my comments and enter into equitable peace talks..." ?
That would have been the end of the USA. Do you hate your own country that much?
Borders are for
1. to define territory
2. to define friend or foe
3. you can pretend that you are better than your nieghbor but all that means is you are a racistThe short answer is that borders are meant to divide people. Borders are meant to oppress people. Borders are an invention of the elite to divide and conquer/control/oppress the masses of humanity. The very concept of a "nation" is oppressive and degrading. Borders are very important for territorial sovereignty, they also help get immigration and emigration. Borders are very important for political and economic reasons. They can make or destroy a country. Terrorists can infiltrate a country through its borders and coups can also happen through them, that's why it's very important to have borders.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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The new Democratic Party is way more extreme than even Bernie Sanders. Sanders was an old fashioned secular socialist. The new far left Democrats are of a completely different character: they want to abolish the First Amendment; they have brought incivility into general politics (hounding people in their everyday lives, eg sitting in a restaurant, if their political opinions oppose theirs) and racialising politics, so only certain ethnic categories are allowed certain liberties.
GW,
BTW, President Trump was a Democrat for most of his life, too. Then he committed the "cardinal sin" of changing his opinion of what the Democrat Party was doing to the American people. Anybody who has a difference of opinion is to be demonized at every opportunity, called every name imaginable, and threatened profusely. Nary a thought was given to the consequences of such activities. The end justified the means. This New Democrat Party is a lot like Islam (Shia vs Sunni) or Christianity (Catholic vs Protestant) in that regard. In fact, it's well nigh unto impossible to distinguish between them when it comes to the virtue of their activities because, well, there isn't any.
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why defending America's borders is a bad idea (for America, not the people who wish to exploit America's porous borders for criminal purposes).
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why negotiating trade deals that are at least equitable is a bad idea.
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why unchecked criminality is laudable when one political party engages in it, but evil incarnate when another political party engages in such activities.
Nobody here or anywhere can tell me why the President of the United States should not represent the interests of the United States, first and foremost.
President Trump's most unforgivable blunder was putting the good of the American people over foreign interests and inexcusably poor governance policies. That is quite clearly not part of the agenda of the Democrat Party or the Republican Party. By actions, not words, that is quite clearly President Trump's agenda and what he is most "guilty" of. That's why our political hacks on both extremes of the spectrum are so upset over his Presidency that they'll say or do virtually anything. He's made them all look like the ideology-driven mental midgets, who care nothing for their country, that they truly are. The American people were / are desperate for better opportunities and circumstances than what either political party had delivered to them in living memory.
The Republican Party once thought that they'd co-opt President Trump's administration to do their bidding. Instead, President Trump has co-opted the Republicans to finally do something useful for America. President Trump is a man without a party, a man without wealthy donors to lavish money on fellow partisan political hacks, and most prominently, a man of the people.
For someone purely interested in his own ego, he's put up with quite a bit of nastiness that he never suffered until he decided to be a Republican. There hasn't been a single ugly thing left unsaid about him, his family, his children, or even people who simply voted for him. You'll have to forgive those of us who think this looks a lot like partisan politics rather than an earnest attempt at redress of grievances.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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The Japanese that had been here for decades were not threats and it was a feeling of race fear from those that were the enemy which caused a false and unwarranted action to round them up and put them in internment camps.
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You should read some history.
The Imperial Japanese Army relied upon intelligence from thousands of ethnic and national Japanese (business people, teachers, academics, undercover spies) across Asia and, obviously, also in the USA. Why you think the USA would be any different from China, Malaya and Indochina, I don't know...
CNN doesn't do history.
The Japanese that had been here for decades were not threats and it was a feeling of race fear from those that were the enemy which caused a false and unwarranted action to round them up and put them in internment camps.
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SpaceNut,
Re:
Post #185
Democrats really are obsessed with race in an unhealthy way. Take your blinders off and behold the crux of the matter...
If my neighbor trespasses on my property, yet I abstain from doing the same wrong to him, then I consider myself to be better than him, but only as it pertains to respecting his property, following our laws regarding property (which were created to enable advanced society to function, not to punish anyone for having more or less, no matter narratives to the contrary), and much more importantly, showing respect to him!
It has nothing whatsoever to do with race, gender, religion, or any other obfuscation nonsense you try to come up with. It's about basic respect for other people and what they have worked for AND THAT'S ALL. I can't speak for anyone else. I expect that courtesy irrespective of what someone looks like, what god(s) they believe in, or where they came from. Everyone else has a right to expect that same courtesy from me. It's an entirely reasonable expectation and a virtual necessity for an advanced and civilized society.
Re:
Post #188
The Japanese were here legally. They were put in concentration camps by a Democrat President. Who would've ever thought that a Democrat would behave in such a decidedly undemocratic way?
You and GW are so worried about what the Republican Party might do, yet totally ignore what the Democrat Party has actually done. It makes me wonder whether or not this is about political partisanship, rather than justified fear. The fear may be real, but that doesn't make it justifiable based upon available evidence. There's no evidence at all to support the assertion that President Trump cares about anyone's race. There's ample evidence to indicate that he cares that society's most basic rules are followed. I don't care if someone feels they're justified in breaking our laws, to include our immigration laws. In a rules-based society, breaking the law carries consequences with it.
The US has no obligation to allow anyone who is not even a citizen to go anywhere they wish, at any time, for any purpose. Period. There are rules here and they will be followed. That is what sets America apart from certain societies that are quite clearly not strictly rules-based.
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Let's just say that I am an independent who voted split tickets all his life, usually more Republicans than Democrats over the decades. In recent decades, that split has reversed, as the traditional values of balanced budgets got left behind by the GOP in favor of more extremist stuff.
I do NOT believe that all Democrats are bad by definition, nor do I believe that all Republicans are bad by definition. That is echo chamber propaganda lies talking. On both sides. There are plenty of bad apples in both barrels, but there are plenty of good ones too.
Biggest problem I see (everywhere that I look) is that too many believe the echo chamber lies.
As for Trump, consider this: all Presidents do both good and bad. That is human. What you want is a President who does more good than bad. And each action has its own weighting factor, so a simple count of good vs bad is not enough. What I saw before the primaries concluded was that Trump's flawed character and egregious lying made him fundamentally unfit. As a result, my opinion is that history will judge that he did more bad than good.
Meanwhile, the various investigations (plural, last I heard there were some 17 ongoing) will continue to bear various fruit. Let us see what that fruit is. Perhaps he should be impeached, and perhaps he should not. We'll see.
GW
Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-03-02 10:04:15)
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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Louis's contention in post 178 above that the FBI are worse leakers than Congress is utter BS. I don't know where he is getting his picture of the US and its society, but his sources appear to be very wrong about us. His perception does not match my life experience here.
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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Honing in on House Democrats target Trump-Putin talks, obstruction in request for documents from 81 sources...
The lawmakers expressed concern about media reports that Trump seized notes on at least one meeting with the Russian leader and tried to destroy records about those talks.
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Today the house unanimously voted to make the report public which is what the people want.
FBI’s cybercrime division, which concluded that a Web server company owned by a Russian Internet entrepreneur was used by Russian operatives Documents shed light on Russian hacking of Democratic Party leaders
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Michael Cohen search warrants show federal probe began nearly a year earlier than known
Michael Cohen documents show how indictments can provide info the Mueller report can't showing that all the way back in 2017, investigators were already looking into Cohen’s connection to hush money payments to President Donald Trump’s alleged mistresses.
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OK, Mueller has turned in his report to the AG yesterday (Fri). Now the next circus begins: how much and how soon will be revealed to the public. That will depend in part upon what Mueller put in his report. But you can bet this will be a partisan circus from all sides.
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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Also Rodenstien as well, but what has been reported has been down played by a rule of if not indicted it can not be reported as negatively within the report, that collusion does not rise to the claim of crimes and that even those crimes are being lessened as ton not being sever enough to claim they are crimes. Hillaries email is an example, all of which the Trump kids are doing the same for country information within there use of there private email as well.
While the report will contain possibly a round up of those which have been declared for crimes its going to fall short of the mark as the DOJ stance is to protect a sitting president while in office, a shield as you will for activity that we would be jailed for. That needs to change as no one is above the law and there is no level of rise to a law state for what constitutes the crime or not crap.
Mueller was appointed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to investigate "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump" and "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation."
AG Barr says evidence 'not sufficient' to prosecute collusion with Russia or obstruction by Trump. While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him, the special counsel said in his report. Mueller did not, "draw a conclusion — one way or the other — as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction."
"Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the (Mueller) report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as 'difficult issues' of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction,".
Mueller's "principal conclusions," as Barr has referred to them, to lawmakers came after the transmission of the special counsel's report to Barr on Friday that concluded an investigation which has resulted in the indictments of 34 people, infuriated the president and threw the administration into turmoil.
The special counsel's office employed 19 lawyers, 40 FBI agents, intelligence analysts, forensic accountants and other professional staff.
In addition, Mueller issued more than 2,800 subpoenas, executed nearly 500 search warrants, obtained more than 230 orders for communication records, issued almost 50 orders authorizing use of pen registers (which detail to whom and when someone made calls and from where), made requests of 13 foreign governments for evidence, and interview approximately 500 witnesses.
Attorney General William Barr is required to notify Congress that the investigation is complete but is not obligated to release the full report, as many in both parties have demanded.
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I think my prediction was pretty accurate.
Trump-hater Mueller knows if Trump is to be prosecuted then the Clintons, Huma Abedin and numerous senior Democrats would have to be prosecuted for their Saudi and Chinese contacts. So long time ago he realised he couldn't indict Trump. All he could do was string it out as long as possible to cause maximum discomfort for Trump. That's all. Pathetic. Mueller is not a credible investigator. He allowed visceral Trump haters and Clinton backers on his team.
The Jackson history lesson is risible, absurd - pure nonsense.
SpaceNut wrote:There is a coming to the end but no one knows for sure when and what will be its report out come which has sparked a call from both sides to see what really happened.
Demands grow for a public Mueller reportSo will we be ok after the truth is known...
America lived through a Trump-like presidency before, with lasting consequences"200 years ago with Andrew Jackson, and Jackson's ideology outlived his presidency by some 20 years."
Gee another election that seems to have been stolen....
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
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