Crops, Unconventional

RobertDyck · 2017-01-08 17:37:09

Light-controlled Leaf Expansion in Peas Grown - NCBI

Several photosystem control leaf expansion in Alaska peas (Pisumn sativum). Phytochrome is known to control expansion in dark-grown peas. But plants exposed briefly to red light are insensitive to phytochrome, an insensitivity that is itself phytochrome-produced. Leaf expansion in these plants is promoted by 440 or 630 nm of light (probably mediated by protochlorophyll). Plants grown in white fluorescent light required simultaneous exposure to high intensity blue and yellow light for promotion of leaf expansion. Since these results parallel studies on light-controlled inhibition of stem elongation, shoot growth as a whole is coordinated by these photosystems. Such coordination might be a mechanism of plant competition for light.

RobertDyck · 2017-01-08 17:58:38

Void wrote:

Very good stuff. Light pipes and heliostats, and underground. Sounds good. Avoids much of the hassle of trying to use plastic films, and glass glazes. Probably safer and warmer as well.

I'll still argue for plastic film for a science mission, glass for a greenhouse built with in-situ materials. A heliostat requires electricity to drive the motor, and working electronics to track the Sun. A surface ambient light greenhouse works with complete power failure. Of course it would require artificial light during a dust storm, but only then.

I see a Mars settlement having a mix of technologies. Light pipes with trees and plants indoors for a pleasant living space. Focused light on chloroplast bags for production of oxygen, starch, and white sugar. Ambient light greenhouse as life support backup in case of power failure, and to grow vegetables. You would probably want non-food crops grown in an ambient light greenhouse as well, something like bamboo or hemp.

Void · 2017-01-08 21:40:34

It's good. I will support the options that you do. I also am interested in others, but that should not get in our way.

One note though:
Quote:

A heliostat requires electricity to drive the motor, and working electronics to track the Sun.

The K.I.S.S. principle is preferred. But Mars does not give favors easily. I make note that in the emerging age of robots, such a described heliostat is rather a simple form of robot. And if you have a model that works is durable and reliable, you can duplicate it over and over again, and likely get the expected results. I note also that you have not dismissed heliostats, you have your use for them.

Void · 2017-01-09 13:17:16

Motors for heliostats? Should they be electrical or pneumatic primarily?

I tend to think pneumatic. Of course they will likely need transducing E/P control valves, and an electric brain.

If pneumatic, should they be collectively piped, or have individual reservoirs of condensed gasses? A refill robot could periodically refill their tanks with perhaps CO2, ambient heat would vaporize some of it during the day.

These would be robots which help us not kill us.

Void · 2017-01-09 13:20:38

Alright this morning, I was thinking that perhaps differential CO2/Water mixes could generate electricity like differential salt solutions can. If so, that might be very useful on Mars, in locations where you can have large ice covered reservoirs. And large water reservoirs could host unconventional "Crops", and electricity could help foster life as well. And processing Martian Atmosphere could yield not only CO2, but Argon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, and CO in concentrations.

So, I looked for something and found this, which is along those lines:
https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/waste-co2-c … e-of-power
Quote:

Waste CO2 Could Be Source of Power
They could, they argue, pump the carbon dioxide through water or other liquids and produce a flow of electrons and therefore more electricity. Power-generating stations release 12 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide every year as they burn coal, oil or natural gas; home and commercial heating plants release another 11 billion tonnes.
This would be enough, they argue, to create 1,750 terawatt hours of extra electricity annually: about 400 times the output of the Hoover dam in the US, and all without adding an extra gasp of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. So the exhaust from one cycle of electricity production could be used immediately to deliver another flow of power to the grid.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 13:23:41)

elderflower · 2017-01-09 13:23:18

Pneumatic equipment requires a compressor, presumably electrically driven. You could compress the gas during daylight using solar panels, then store it in bottles and use it for controls, but I don't think you will have simplified anything. You have substituted a gas bottle for a battery, but you have added complication in the form of a compressor.

Void · 2017-01-09 13:25:11

A little quick on the draw elderflower. I am working the problem. Think there is a lot of good going to happen in this thread. See the previous post.

My intention is to work with Martian atmosphere, to indeed as a side project provide pneumatic controls, but also electricity, and to also harvest natural photolysis, and to induce additional photolysis, and to provide hot water as well as life support. No transparent glazing required.

Additionally it may be possible to create a near infrared to red light source that could drive photosynthesis in a non transparent chamber.

Please take note of this additional subtopic in the reference I attached to post #30.
https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/waste-co2-c … e-of-power
The additional sub topic is:
Quote:

Power from sunlight and water
And in the same journal, a team from the University of Colorado at Boulder in the US report that they have a technique to concentrate sunlight and use it to split water into its components of hydrogen and oxygen: these two in combination provide the energy for hydrogen fuel cells that have already begun to power public transport in many cities.
The Boulder technique employs a towering array of mirrors focused on a single point to heat a metal oxide reactor to 1,350°C and set up a chain of atomic-scale events which grabs oxygen atoms from steam, releasing the hydrogen molecules.
“Splitting water with sunlight is the Holy Grail of a sustainable hydrogen economy”, says Alan Weimer, leader of the Boulder research group. But commercial introduction could be years away. “With the price of natural gas so low, there is no incentive to burn clean energy.”

Again, this may be just approximate to the type of photolysis I want to do on Mars. Actually Mars should be far better. If your mirrors are shining a full spectrum of Martian sunlight onto a metal oxide surface at 1,350°C then some major molecule ripping should be possible.

They are using heliostats obviously, so I will take a Segway to explain why I think pneumatic motors will be better. I think they can be 3D printed from more common materials. Electric motors will require fine copper wire, and electrical insulators. As I have said I think pneumatic parts will be more easily manufactured with 3D printing. As for the seals/o-rings, those will be needed for airlocks anyway.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 13:39:25)

Void · 2017-01-09 13:43:13

Alright, I will try again. This site can be stupid where you loose your typed content.

A cone shaped structure sits on the ground. Heliostats shine a focus of Martian light including U.V. onto the apex of the cone at the top of the structure. That apex is coated with a metal oxide for photolysis.

Both that outside surface and the inside surface glow at least red, but perhaps even white hot and so
an interior light source exists, which can potentially support a photo life community inside the cone.
There is a potential to overheat the contents of the cone, so perhaps water cooling is required. No problem though, it is not a bad thing to have hot water on Mars.

Meanwhile out on the outer surface of the glowing apex atmospheric Martian gasses react to the intense concentration of light. That atmosphere already contains small amounts of O2 and CO from natural photolysis. Above the apex is an upside down "Bucket" that the heated gasses further photolysis treated will float up to. Piping will suction the contents of that inverted bucket since a vacuum will be applied to that piping.

It is permitted to inject water steam to the outside photolysis process to arrive at a different photolysis product(s).

The photolysized vacuum drawn gasses will go to a primary cooling sub-process.

After cooling the gas, it will encounter the vacuum pump which is also a compressor.

For daytime storage, the compressed gas can be reacted with water to produce electricity, and dissolve some or all of the gasses into that reservoir water.

During the night two different reservoirs of water with different levels of CO2 content can produce electrical power.

During the night some of the reservoir water can be degassed by vacuum, and that gas conducted to a condensing process which might yield liquid CO2, and the gasses N2, Argon, and perhaps some photolysis products. (A bit rough on that, needs further development).

Anyway, it is possible that this process could be self powered or not.

Liquid CO2 could be supplied to each heliostat as it's primary pneumatic motor power, ambient heat during the day vaporizing some of it.

The remaining liquid CO2 becoming the cooling process for the very hot gasses suctioned off from the exterior bucket collector. And that heat superheating the CO2 and driving a turbine?

Its a good start I think.

Most likely the products of photolysis will require a further process, of which I can think of possibilities.

Otherwise it can simply be fed to bacteria to produce uniprotein or some other food item. (Unconventional crops is the topic after all).

To be noted is the additional potential to harvest N2 and Argon.

It's not perfected, it is skeletal, but I think it points to something.

As for the photo-life inside the cone, white light, red light, near infrared can power certain photo-life. For near infrared, certain deep ocean vent life forms might be pointed to. Near infrared is not very powerful, but it is an option, if white hot is too corrosive, or you don't want to work with red visible light.

No transparency devices needed. Pressurized transparency devices to support photo-life are a real bitch to make work affordably.

Done for now.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 14:06:38)

Void · 2017-01-09 15:11:44

Perhaps a little more explaining will be helpful.

1) Cold water will absorb more CO2 than hot water. So, to degas the CO2 out of the reservoir cold reservoir water at night, it will need to be heated, to minimize the energy needed to degas. That is not as much of a contradiction as it might seem.

If you first dissolve CO2 into cold water to generate electricity, and then pump that solution into a tank that resides in a warm water layer, that cold water tank will warm up. Then at night if you pump the warmed up water with dissolved CO2 to the surface, and expose it to a vacuum, the effort to degas will be less.

2) As for the reservoir itself, if it is a salt pond, and the upper layers colder and less salty than the lower layers, then in fact you can have a warm lower layer. After all your cone will heat water all day long. Heat you can inject to the lower salty layer.

3) The cone with an apex hot spot will in effect be a secondary incandescent light source.
Not necessarily the best for green plants, but we are hoping to utilize Red and Near Infrared photosynthesis. Of course vascular plants are not completely ruled out. Particularly if they are GM to use red and near-infrared (Horror to some).

An interesting aspect of the "Cone" secondary incandescent light source method, is that air stratification will tend to keep the hot air on top and away from the things growing on the bottom. Still red and infrared will shine down through the air.

Also, if you don't like stratification of air, you could have an air fan to modify it.

Corrosion of the hot spot could be an issue. Materials used will matter.

4) Balance of energy. If all other methods fail, to produce enough energy, it will be possible to circulate water into the hot spot to generate pressurized steam, or steam depending on your needs and definition to generate more power, (per turbine perhaps).

Say no to transparent glazing when ever you can on Mars!

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 15:19:42)

Void · 2017-01-09 16:24:49

Oh, just one more thing.

It occurred to me that if making these cone and heliostat things was standard practice and they paid off, and they were capable of generating excess Methane at times, then you have your source of greenhouse gasses which you probably need before your super greenhouse gasses.

Also, I did not mention it, but I am guessing that these cones if made of metal primarily could likely be able to hold a 1 Bar Earth Standard air pressure.

And if they were on top of an ice covered thermal salt pond, a connecting tube could allow humans to travel from warm water at about a ~80-100 foot water/ice column into the interior of the cones.

Actually to be effective, I would think a N2/O2 mix at say 8-10 PSI would be more than sufficient, so then your connecting tube maybe ~60-80 feet long?

In such a system I also think "Forget about transparent ice" with a transparent plastic wrapper. Instead a mix of styrafoam beads, and dirt to cover a plastic non-transparent vapor barrier over the ice which would not age very rapidly at all.

Heliostats sitting on top of the ice, cones sitting on top of the ice.

Likely workable even at the polar ice caps, but heliostats might be damaged by CO2 frost/snow. Wait until atmosphere greenhouse eliminates CO2 condensation. Naturally if you then later did it at the poles you would mothball it each winter.

But at Utopia Planetia, you could do it immediately as soon as you could build the structures.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 16:32:02)

Void · 2017-01-09 20:33:29

Having talked about near infrared photosynthesis, I thought this might be an interesting read:
http://aem.asm.org/content/78/11/3896.full

The cyanobacterium Acaryochloris marina is the only known phototroph harboring chlorophyll (Chl) d.

Biofilm growth under both visible radiation (VIS, 400 to 700 nm) and near-infrared radiation (NIR, ∼700 to 730 nm) yielded maximal cell-specific growth rates of 0.38 per day and 0.64 per day, respectively. The population doubling times were 1.09 and 1.82 days for NIR and visible light, respectively.

So, NIR does have less energy, and is not used at longer wavelengths than ~730 nm, so it only extends the photosynthesis bandwidth a bit.

I guess I will leave it at that. For exterior photolysis, I would imagine white hot is wanted at the apex of the cone, but apparently on the inside, if wavelengths of just (NIR, ∼700 to 730 nm) were created (Not visible, at least to normal people), photosynthesis could occur. Would it produce Oxygen? I am not sure about that either. I think it likely.

I have a lot to learn here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spectrum

Incredible nerd fun ? ?

I am pretty sure from what I have read, that ~730 nm is about as far long as you can take photosynthesis, at least for Earth life forms.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 20:48:08)

Void · 2017-01-09 21:03:56

Oh! Correction:
http://www.astrobio.net/alien-life/infr … ss-places/
Quote:

Cardenas and colleagues pushed the envelope by considering hypothetical organisms that could absorb light with a wavelength as long as 1300 nanometers (billionths of a meter). That wavelength is considerably longer (and thus less energetic) than the light that Earthly species can accommodate. The infrared range is considered to start at 700 nanometers, and organisms have been documented reaping this invisible light out to about 1000 nanometers, Blankenship said.

So, that's a ~300 nm span rather than the previous post's span of ~30 nm. But the closer to 1000 nm, the less energy in the photon. Still perhaps the cone hot spot would put out a lot of photons.

I don't think it has to operate in infrared only I think it could handle red easily.

Well, enough mania from me for tonight, I hope.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-09 21:06:15)

Void · 2017-01-11 13:19:49

Well, I've done a little more looking into this matter.
It seems that Oxigenic Photosynthesis is hard to come by with Infrafed. but it does exist for the near infrared, so that's good.
I will throw this in for references:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis
It does not seem that nature provides a plant that uses Near Infrared, so a cyanobacteria will have to do. (I hope it will).

I mentioned it before:Acaryochloris marina
http://phys.org/news/2012-03-far-out-ph … hesis.html
http://www.astrobio.net/alien-life/far- … synthesis/
Quote:

Acaryochloris marina that uses chlorophyll d (Chl d) instead of Chl a to perform oxygenic photosynthesis with photons from visible light through to wavelengths up to 740 nm in the near-infrared (NIR).

Nancy Kiang of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) explains, "Chl d extends the useful solar radiation for oxygenic photosynthesis by 18% – meaning life can use more wavelengths of light (i.e. more types of light-producing stars) to survive. This implies a lot of cool things."

So my deal with all of this is to try to provide a method to produce Oxigenic Photosynthesis while not using a pressure drop window glaze. I think I might have it.
I did mentions something in earlier posts, but I think I have gotten further now.

I previously suggested a cone shaped pressure vessel of opaque materials, and that heliostats would heat the top of the cone to incandescence to produce photolysis on the outside surface and incandescence to produce red and near infrared photons on the inside.

I think I have a more evolved and better plan.

For an opaque pressure vessel we can for comparison keep the cone shape. (But other shapes are OK.

On the heated peak, I would put piping where water pumped in will be converted to high temperature steam. Over that I would put ceramic tiles. Between the piping, and the pressure vessel can be a thermal insulation layer, to avoid stressing the pressure vessel with excessive heat.

To describe it simply to this point, it is a solar concentrator with an dual output.
1) The surface tiles which could endure high heating, will be coated with metal oxides on the outside, to promote catalytic molecule splitting.
2) The piping system will generate a high pressure incandescent steam.

The incandescent steam will be ducted to incandescent lights perhaps looking like a old electric stove burner. The output from this could be red and infrared light. Window glass can be used to block the emissions of long infrared, but would let the red and near infrared through for the most part.
Reference:
https://edavies.me.uk/2014/08/ir-myth/

Another important area of difference between near and thermal IR is transmission by glass. Near IR gets through pretty much as well as visible light (though I think low-iron glass transmits near IR relatively better than ordinary glass does - not sure though) whereas most glass is effectively opaque to thermal IR.

*While now I am specifying the use of glass, notice that this glass is not used to hold a differential air pressure. It is simply a filter to reduce the transmission of far infrared, but allow red and near infra-red to pass for the most part.

This deviation from the original plan does generate some hazards. Superheated steam if it leaked would be dangerous, but if the chamber is large and the "Light Fixtures" are elevated, humans may have time to escape. A good control system would shut off a valve in such a situation anyway.

Another problem may be that the chamber will tend to overheat. As I see it the bottom of the chamber could be covered in a pool of water, circulated from a ice covered reservoir. That should supply cooling.

Then what about your superheated steam after you extracted it's incandescent temperature range? Of course you could vent it through a turbine, and directly quench the residual steam in your ice covered reservoir. Your turbine could generate electrical power. So, if you like you can have blue diodes in the chamber to generate blue light.
You already have some red and some near infrared. If you like you might have pots where you grow individual vascular plants under the added near by blue diodes. Just a notion. Or if all you want to do is grow Acaryochloris marina then do that. But I guess what I am after is a system that is compatible with human life and perhaps even pleasant but that produces food and Oxygen.

Are glass greenhouses on Mars against the law? Of course not. But if you can get calories, protein, perhaps some nutrition from this along with electrical power and hot steam, and hot water, why not have a look at it.

The previous model where I specified a metal shell where you simply heat the apex of the cone? Yes sure, that is more simple, but perhaps it yields less. Probably you cannot heat the peak hot enough for photolysis without rupturing the pressure vessel.
But then again on Mars the sun spectrum includes hard U.V. maybe photolysis will work at cooler temperatures in that case.

And yes I am not that informed about high pressure steam. I might have made it seem too easy. But this is all food for thought. If you don't try then you are likely to go hungry.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-11 14:00:36)

Void · 2017-01-14 12:25:43

Some materials to add, presented by "Lake Matthew Team - Cole" presented in the topic "Crops", in and before post #455.
Quote:

From Light to Dairy
Lake Matthew Team - Cole wrote:
Perfect Day
Lake Matthew Team - Cole wrote:
I didn't attempt a Perfect Day / Thrive synthetic dairy plant in that scheme, because I can't quantify the plant's yield. I imagine it could boost calorie production significantly.
Perfect Day has kindly responded. With current tech, a 1,000-liter tank can produce ~300 liters of milk a week. Improvements are certainly possible, but that's about 15 million dairy calories per Mars year, right there. (Net calorie gain depending on the mix of crop/alternate sugars used in fermentation.)
One interesting alternate source of fermentation sugar is the Proterro photosynthetic sugar manufacturing system.
Requirements: The bioreactor uses a salt solution to maximize photosynthetic sugar production, and NaCl is of course a major ZLD end-product. Nutrients would come from ZLD and/or other fertilizer production facilities considered here and elsewhere. CO2 is abundant on Mars of course.
Production: Commercial yield target is 30x sugar cane yield, so a very compact reactor should be feasible. Envisioning direct integration of Proterro bioreactor onto Perfect Day fermenter, we can see a high-efficiency greenhouse path "from light to dairy". Conceivably all greenhouse sugar production might be transferred to the reactors, improving space utilization significantly.

Here is a link, which has more:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 93#p133993

I do not prohibit the use of transparent glazes, or the suns output spectrum, but here I am specifically wondering if what I have borrowed from "Lake Matthew Team - Cole" and bonded to other photo outputs, such as an incandescent light source. That light source as previously described, an object essentially heated by concentrated sunlight.

My current method of choice is superheated steam to carry the energy from location of production to location of use. I prefer to use near infrared wavelengths, because there is reason to believe that they may facilitate the production of Oxygen, while not stressing mechanical systems as much as the production of visible light would require.

Why do it this way? Because such a system could be adapted to less than optimal situations on Mars and elsewhere. If mastered, it could be one of a set of backbone method that carries the weight of human effort.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-14 12:36:08)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-03-27 10:53:37

Turning astronaut waste into fuel on Mars

https://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Turni … s_999.html

To survive on Mars will mean maximising use of all available resources. A team from Spanish technological centre Tekniker is working on a system that uses sunlight to produce fuel from astronaut wastewater.

Borja Pozo from Tekniker explains: "We aim to make the first reactor to produce space propellant on Mars using the planet's air, which is 95% carbon dioxide. The reactor will be powered by sunlight, and astronauts' greywater will be used to help in the production of the propellant."

The 'photoelectrochemical' system, relying on high-efficiency catalytic materials to produce hydrocarbons such as methane as well as carbon monoxide or alcohols from atmospheric CO2 plus wastewater. In the process it will also detoxify the water used - serving as a recycling method.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-13 04:48:38

Checking Farms and Biodomes with Mars satellites and Drones

Mars helicopter Ingenuity hits 23rd flight, can't be stopped
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/inge … ampaign=pd

Hydroponic vertical farming
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/0 … e-regions/

Vertical Farming: The Future?
https://ananthveluvali.com/2022/03/25/v … he-future/

and
Before the madness of Ukraine?

'WikiLeaks - US and Russia were exploring the possibility of a joined manned mission to Mars, a manned base on the Moon and dealing with a space-threat '
https://twitter.com/failedevolution/sta … 4105469953

Animation with Starship & Cybertruck
https://www.humanmars.net/2022/01/mars- … slave.html

'Growing Potatoes on Mars is Hard!'
https://youtu.be/F2QFaAV_xjg

Korea indoor farm in antarctica great havest
http://koreabizwire.com/king-sejong-sta … arm/198205

Antarctica: Korean R&D team succeeds in growing tomatoes
https://www.verticalfarmdaily.com/artic … atermelon/
Antarctic Sejong Science Station
https://www.tellerreport.com/business/2 … D93ZY.html

Mars Base Alpha
https://www.humanmars.net/2022/02/elons … alpha.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-20 06:10:26

Vertical Farming Saves Water and Land and Could Help Global Food Security, Expert Says

https://www.ecowatch.com/vertical-farmi … urity.html

Void · 2022-05-06 21:16:09

I am guessing some members may be interested in this: https://phys.org/news/2022-05-ocean-key … -meat.html

It would be expensive to grow animals, and we should probably hope to graduate from eating things with faces anyway.

Done.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-24 10:16:02

A new breakthrough in biology allows scientists to grow food without sunlight | Artificial photosynthesis could be 'a paradigm shift for how we feed people.'

https://interestingengineering.com/brea … t-sunlight

Calliban · 2022-06-24 10:57:36

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

A new breakthrough in biology allows scientists to grow food without sunlight | Artificial photosynthesis could be 'a paradigm shift for how we feed people.'
https://interestingengineering.com/brea … t-sunlight

Of all of the technological developments that we have seen in recent years, this may be the most significant in improving the prospects for Mars colonisation. It was previously estimated that a Mars colony would need 100KW of power per capita, mostly to produce the food it needs. If that power requirement can be reduced substantially, then colonisation becomes more affordable.

Void · 2022-06-24 11:58:47

That is very exciting.

As usual I have a partial understanding of these things. I got it backwards at first, but on looking it up, the Fuel is an electron donor, and Oxygen is an electron acceptor.

I recently found information that Mushrooms (Mycelium) do not use Oxygen. However, they benefit if Oxygen using bacteria, are present with them. Now I am guessing that the Bacteria may somehow take electrons from the Mycelium and pass them to Oxygen. So, then I guess that the Acetate (Fuel), is an electron donor.

For the Algae and Yeast, I do not yet know. Life is electric it seems.

Quote from Mars_B4_Moon:

A new breakthrough in biology allows scientists to grow food without sunlight | Artificial photosynthesis could be 'a paradigm shift for how we feed people.'
https://interestingengineering.com/brea … t-sunlight … t-sunlight

Quote:

The researchers also optimized their electrolyzer to produce the highest levels of acetate ever produced in an electrolyzer to date. What's more, they found that crop plants, including cowpea, tomato, rice, green pea, and tobacco, all have the potential to be grown in the dark using the carbon from acetate. There's even a possibility that acetate could improve crop yields, though more research is required.

It is not clear, but perhaps you can give some plants both light and Acetate. This might greatly reduce the amount of artificial light they would need, or perhaps in some cases no light at all.

Fabulous.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-06-24 12:06:51)

SpaceNut · 2022-06-24 12:12:37

photosynthesis whether artificial or natural for just food is missing the point that its basic life support of air as well.
here is the place for the wattage required but its low as we need more.

spaceNut wrote:

I have been looking back on the use of a greenhouse as a part of life support and have made a couple posts about where nasa is Mars Lunar Greenhouse
This could be something that we not only can use as a base design onboard the ship but since the level of people that might remain on the large ship continuing to grow food we will want a similar system on the mars surface to give replacement parts and general knowledge for its use.
The buried units on the mars surface will require a sleeve for it to reside within.
Mars-Lunar Greenhouse (M-LGH). Funded by NASA Ralph Steckler Program, our team has designed and constructed a set of four cylindrical innovative 5.5 m (18 ft) long by 1.8 m (7 ft) diameter membrane M-LGHs with a cable-based hydroponic crop production system in a controlled environment that exhibits a high degree of future Lunar and/or Mars mission fidelity.
Bioregenerative Life Support
• Per Person Basis
 0.84 kg/day O2
 3.9 kg/day H2O
 50% of 11.8 MJ/day [BVAD Values, 2006]
•2000 Cal/day diet
•Buried habitat
•Six month crew change duration
•Solar for energy supply
•Autonomous deployment
Average daily water consumption 25.7 L day-1
Average daily CO2 consumption 0.22 kg day-1
Average daily elec. power consumption 100.3 kWh day-1 (361 MJ)
24 ± 4 g biomass (ww) per kWh, or
(83 g biomass (ww) per MJ)
edible + non-edible biomass
35.9 min day-1 labor use for operations

Void · 2022-06-24 13:15:02

I thought of that as well. But....The article does not mention it, but to create a fuel they must also be creating an Oxidizer. Probably Oxygen.

https://interestingengineering.com/brea … t-sunlight
Quote:

The researchers, who published their findings in Nature Food, used a two-step electrocatalytic process to convert carbon dioxide, electricity, and water into acetate, which is the main component in vinegar.

So, the organisms they feed Acetate to probably are using it as an electron donor. It could not have electrons to donate unless electrons were taken from Oxygen bonded to the CO2 and H20, and so I anticipate that free Oxygen was released in the electrolysis process.

But even then it is possible that mechanical gills on Mars may eventually be able to efficiently extract Oxygen from the Martian atmosphere.

And then there is Perchlorate.

And then we have the notion stated that the conversion of solar power to food would be ~18 times as efficient:

Though the UC Riverside researchers highlight the fact their method requires no sunlight, they do point out that it can work incredibly effectively alongside renewable solar energy. Interestingly, they say they can combine their method with solar panels to generate the electricity required to power the electrolysis. This would increase the conversion efficiency of sunlight into food by up to 18 times compared to some foods.

------

I was wondering how green plants might utilize this. I think that fungi in the ground must bond to the root system of the plants and feed them food, (Electrons?). In effect the plants would accept electrons from the fungi which would get them from the Acetate. Then I presume the Plants donate the electrons to Oxygen in the atmosphere.

A question: Could you put a (-) charge into soil and then a (+) to air and induce plant growth that way?

Obviously, you would have to limit the current or you would fry the plants.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-06-24 13:26:14)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-02 16:22:33

Florida-based company opens large-scale commercial vertical farm in Colorado
https://www.denverpost.com/2022/05/29/a … roduction/

IDTechEx: Market for agricultural robots to grow quickly in coming decade
https://www.futurefarming.com/smart-far … ng-decade/

NASA Research Launches a New Generation of Indoor Farming
https://spinoff.nasa.gov/indoor-farming

The first vertical farm in the U.S. provided a foundation for expanding the controlled environment agriculture industry

U of I researchers aiding in development of solar-powered weeding robot
https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/ … d61f7.html

Scientists Designing AI Robots to Work in Earth's Most Extreme Places
https://www.newsweek.com/scientists-des … es-1721195

VIDEO: Milking robots help Nicomen Island dairy farmer spend more time with family
https://www.theprogress.com/news/video- … th-family/
Before robots, David Matlak would spend nearly eight hours a day milking cow by cow, twice a day in the parlour.

Meet the robot tractor that's coming to a farm near you - Brian Henderson
https://www.scotsman.com/country-and-fa … on-3737058

It might be a sad fact, but one of the earliest memories which I can recollect involves the demonstration of a robotic tractor at the Highland Show.

How astronauts on the ISS are growing crops without soil
https://www.verticalfarmdaily.com/artic … hout-soil/

At this vertical farm, green thumbs aren’t required
https://www.emergingtechbrew.com/storie … t-required

Why Future Space Farms Depend on Plants Grown in Antarctica
https://www.yahoo.com/now/why-future-sp … 55472.html

I am a historian of Antarctic science. How to grow plants and food in the far southern reaches of Earth has been an active area of research for more than 120 years. These efforts have helped further understanding of the many challenges of agriculture in extreme environments and eventually led to limited, but successful, plant cultivation in Antarctica. And especially after the 1960s, scientists began to explicitly look at this research as a stepping stone to human habitation in space.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-02 16:26:38)

Void · 2022-07-28 09:38:34

I recall looking at this insect before: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Th … &FORM=VIRE

I have this notion that it may be possible to grow Hydrilla in bulk, which would also of course produce Oxygen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrilla

Of course, it sounds like they will eat other organic wastes as well.

I would have a phobia about eating them, I am not one of those. However, they do talk about microwaving the larvae, and then those are stable for long periods of time.

Some people here don't think that there will be Chickens on Mars, but I leave it open.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-07-28 09:43:49)

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#26 2017-01-08 17:37:09

Re: Crops, Unconventional

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