Crops, Unconventional

Void · 2017-01-04 14:17:53

http://gizmodo.com/eight-futuristic-foo … 1790570240

Yes.. I am in pain in the A** mode. But in a nice way. It's fun. I approve of honorable behaviors, I disapprove of otherwise.

Anyway, seeing as how it is not likely that a sizable human population will be on Mars within the next 30 years, the topic of futuristic foods might apply to both Earth and "Why not Mars", by then.

The attached article addresses somewhat unconventional categories, some which might be suitable to Mars.

Bugs
LabGrown Meat
Farmed Fish
Fake Fish
Algae
GMO Everything
3D printed food
And of course I will add;
Mushrooms

The other "Crops" thread which is very nice, is also very rigid, in that it apparently is seen as an attempt to mimic traditional temperate Earth climate agriculture. It also suddenly appears as a large created structure, some would say a "Production Greenhouse". Again, no objections, more power to you, but I am more interested in unconventional agriculture, since conventional agriculture is being covered very well. (And I am pleased about that).

I have an approximate quote from Antius. If he does not want to be referenced, he can tell me and will remove his name from it: "Pressurized space will be expensive on Mars, and transparent pressurized space even more expensive.

As you must know by now, I favor hydrostatic pressurization.
I am also becoming interested, in hybrid plastic/ice greenhouses, and perhaps glass frame/ice greenhouses.

So, given those unconventional methods to receive photons into a pressurized space, I then at this time think of things like growing a weed in any of them. By weed, generally I think of something that cannot be eaten directly, but which might provide industrial fiber.
Such plants could be consumed by Bugs, Fish, or Mushrooms however, as secondary organisms which would provide calories and nutrition.

And here is an example of why to think unconventionally:

Sure, there are ethical reasons to not eat meat—cows and goats and pigs are cute living things. But if you’re still craving flesh, there’s at least one writhing option that might be better: fish. Aside from aforementioned emissions issues, raising cattle also takes up a lot of land, and a lot of livestock feed. Fish require only a fraction the amount of feed to generate the same amount of protein.

Lets repeat the core of that!

Fish require only a fraction the amount of feed to generate the same amount of protein.

As for Algae, that is interesting. I am a champion of Spirulina. However it requires a warm and well lighted environment among other things. But it is suitable for human consumption, but of course could be fed to fish. I suspect it could be fed to bugs and mushrooms as well.

While Spirulina may be fussy, there should be many algae/cyanobacteria which are extremophile's which can be feed to bugs, fish, or mushrooms. Some micro-organisms might be directly ingestible by humans as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

It should be possible to find micro-organisms which require the least amount of hosting by pressurized controlled environments.

And I am into chemosynthesis as the base for a food chain.

As I see it, the first missions will be very important. For food, I suggest pre-positioning using a ballistic capture to Mars. Vitamin pills as well of course. And then if their are some lightweight methods to generate additional food insitu, fine.

But I find that people here won't talk about "Ballistic Capture", or Mushrooms very often.
Your choice.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-04 14:52:39)

Void · 2017-01-06 14:27:33

Oh yes! Void you are brilliant!

But you left out Methane seeps.

Void · 2017-01-06 14:28:38

Well Void, I think you mean "Cold Seeps". That falls under chemosynthesis which I did mention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_seep

[img]A mussel bed at the edge of the brine pool
During this initial stage, when methane is relatively abundant, dense mussel beds also form near the cold seep.[3]Mostly composed of species in the genus Bathymodiolus, these mussels do not directly consume food.[3]Instead, they are nourished by symbiotic bacteria that also produce energy from methane, similar to their relatives that form mats.[3]Chemosynthetic bivalves are prominent constituents of the fauna of cold seeps.[/img]

Last edited by Void (2017-01-06 14:30:36)

Void · 2017-01-06 14:31:06

Excellent Void, glad you brought that up!

Void · 2017-01-06 14:34:16

Void, do you remember that story about the Norse settlers in Greenland be non-adaptive?
When the climate took a turn for the worse, they were late in turning to the sea for food, but rather preferred to keep trying to do their traditional farming methods. The Inuit could have helped the adapt, but they apparently were to non-adaptable to borrow from another culture.

I suspect that those particular Norse were rather inbred, and isolated, sort of a Norse hillbilly.
Long and short of it is they did not make it.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-06 14:36:56)

Void · 2017-01-06 14:38:20

And then their was Shetland ponies in Antarctica.

Some people just refuse to adapt to the conditions they are under. Instead they keep trying to make nature obey them. Nature sometimes says NO, now you die.

Bye Bye!

Void · 2017-01-06 14:39:33

Your a jerk Void!

Void · 2017-01-06 14:41:18

Why yes I am!

elderflower · 2017-01-06 14:57:47

Was it a nice bottle?

Void · 2017-01-06 15:26:25

Thank you sir! Butt no. Just Diet Pepsi.

elderflower · 2017-01-06 15:32:30

Keep off the hard stuff!

SpaceNut · 2017-01-06 23:05:18

Voids been taste testing the wine again.....

All kidding aside the topic is not a favor food group.. but there will be those that love sea food and mushrooms so I am sure at some point these will be tried....

Now pass that bottle over here!!!!

Void · 2017-01-07 10:49:10

Being here does tend to drive one to indulge...

Spacenut said...:

All kidding aside the topic is not a favor food group.. but there will be those that love sea food and mushrooms so I am sure at some point these will be tried....

I intend this in the friendliest way you can imagine.

I am content for Crops, Unconventional to be a secondary side show. But I will argue the case, since I do not feel that I am interfering with the other works with more "Conventional" crops.

I will first argue that the Martian Atmosphere unlike Earths, has significant Carbon in it. As our food in large part is made of Carbon and Hydrogen, a chemical path to food is suggested. That path also will provide Oxygen without the need for plant life.

We know that places on Mars that may be usable by humans at this time have significant buried ice, which will provide Hydrogen.

We know that pressurized greenhouses will come at a steep cost. Very hard to do, and also likely prone to failure.

We know that water impoundments may be possible, and could be easier than greenhouses.
If involved in chemosynthesis, then such impoundments do not required transparent glazes, or artificial lighting.

Impoundments will have their complications however, so I will borrow from one of our members who is not currently active "Impaler".

He suggested a machine where a yeast would live on a hydrocarbon and Oxygen and produce a basic bulk food.

See next post:

Last edited by Void (2017-01-07 11:08:00)

Void · 2017-01-07 11:06:14

Here is a link to Impalers contribution in this.
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7175

He is not particularly a warm and fuzzy teddy bear is he? But he brought something of value we should not discard in my opinion. Unlike my schemes, this is something which can be done inside of a pressurized habitat I should think.

Since his link is no longer organized as it must have been but it never the less leads to some very interesting things, I will put on my pirates hat and thieve away on Impalers ideas, with the best of intentions (You note, that I do give credit, attribution where I can remember it is deserved). "All hail Impaler"!

We have some gold here I feel!
http://www.unibio.dk/technology/
What is Uniprotein?
http://www.unibio.dk/end-product/protein
Natural Gas turned into Protein:
http://www.unibio.dk/technology/sustain … ?opentab=1
You like Chicken Eggs, they like Chickens:

OK, Dinner and a show! (Scroll down to a video).
http://www.unibio.dk/technology/sustain … ?opentab=1
This is much better documented than when Impaler was able to present it.
I feel that this does surpass any alternative bulk food source I can think of.

It does not provide artificial wood however. Mushrooms could contribute to that.

But having a bulk food source which is chemically derived on Mars, will greatly reduce your necessary greenhouse space.

I note also there is hope that these bacteria will generate Vitamin B12. And this is technically a vegan food.

I am not a vegan but I dabble in it a bit.

I have some problems with the Mars effort being tied to Veganism.
Our objective is to get people to live on Mars.
I favor mercy to things with a face and a nervous system. We presume that they suffer what we do to them.

But can we be sure a bacteria has no consciousness? If it did then we would be making many more beings suffer than to kill a bird or mammal.

And I note that if you investigate what the Inuit ate/eat, very little vegetables, and they lived/live in a very cold climate. Mars has a very cold climate.

Void · 2017-01-07 11:39:31

So, the chemicals needed:
CO might be extracted directly from the atmosphere where it exists as a very minor part of the atmosphere, created by natural Photolysis. Or it might be extracted with machinery and energy from the CO2 of the Martian atmosphere.

It is possible that a bacteria that produces the protein could be found/developed that would use CO directly instead of Methane.

Otherwise, Methane can be produced by reacting CO with H20 using heat. I suggest a solar concentrated heat. Or maybe Methane is extractable from the underground from Clathrate's
or even as Natural Gas.

As for Oxygen, there is Oxygen as a minor part of the Martian atmosphere, also generated by natural Photolysis. Or if CO is to be extracted from the Martian CO2, then O2 will also be produced.

As inhabitants of Mars, will likely want all of these gasses for various industrial purposes, and to power travel devices, why not also weave a food source into that required technological capability.

Done for now.

Void · 2017-01-07 12:20:47

Allright I am back. Since nobody checked in, I will continue on my own lines.

Here is a list of vitamins and where they likely can come from:
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pa … amins.html
Here is where calories might come from:
http://nutristrategy.com/nutrition/calories.htm
Quote:

Fat: 1 gram = 9 calories
Protein: 1 gram = 4 calories
Carbohydrates: 1 gram = 4 calories
Alcohol: 1 gram = 7 calories

So, the protein producing bacteria can provide calories, and I suspect vitamin B12 and perhaps other vitamins.
So, then Chicken Eggs, presumably the chickens mostly feed the protein feed. But also maybe some Soldier Fly Larvae, and some Vegetable matter. Did I hear Old fart say what green things chickens can eat? Grass even?
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dai … ucts/111/2
Quote:

The good: This food is a good source of Riboflavin, Vitamin B12 and Phosphorus, and a very good source of Protein and Selenium.
The bad: This food is high in Saturated Fat, and very high in Cholesterol.

*The B12 must come from the food the Chicken eats!

Mushrooms:
*I bet mushrooms can be grown in the bacteria granules!
I would mix it with sterile non-toxic soil for minerals needed.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/veg … cts/2482/2
Quote:

The good: This food is low in Saturated Fat and Sodium, and very low in Cholesterol. It is also a good source of Dietary Fiber, Protein, Vitamin C, Folate, Iron, Zinc and Manganese, and a very good source of Vitamin D, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Pantothenic Acid, Phosphorus, Potassium, Copper and Selenium.

*Greater detail can be found in the link.

And then expanding from the Vegan diet:
Black Soldier Fly Larva meal nutritional value:
http://www.co-prot.com/nutritional-value.html
*Lots of stuff, I will just let you look at it.
I am not a fan of eating bugs, but it is a phobic response, not rational.

Fish: Fish, tilapia, cooked, dry heat Nutrition Facts & Calories
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fin … cts/9244/2
Quote:

The good: This food is low in Sodium. It is also a good source of Niacin and Phosphorus, and a very good source of Protein, Vitamin B12 and Selenium.

So actually not that fantastic of an upgrade of nutrition, and the Vitamin B12 has to come from what the fish eats. Curious. Maybe there are more nutritious fish.

So looking quickly at this shortlist of nutrients, only "E" and possibly "K" are not supplied.
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pa … amins.html
Of course it is a short list.

So, the point is if you can have a food chain based on Methane and Oxygen then perhaps your greenhouse size only has to be 10% - 5% of what you thought?

I would say that is thinking that is justified to continue.

After all you are not going to have human activity on Mars without generating Methane and Oxygen. And to support unconventional crops from Methane and Oxygen (Nutrients from dirt as well), you only need to produce more.

I am sure I am right.

So, there.

Greenhouses are hard, very hard.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-07 12:50:44)

RobertDyck · 2017-01-07 14:14:50

Wikipedia: B12

Industrial production of B12 is achieved through fermentation of selected microorganisms. Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years. The species Pseudomonas denitrificans and Propionibacterium freudenreichii subsp. shermanii are more commonly used today. These are frequently grown under special conditions to enhance yield, and at least one company, Rhône-Poulenc of France, which has merged into Sanofi-Aventis, used genetically engineered versions of one or both of these species. Since a number of species of Propionibacterium produce no exotoxins or endotoxins and are generally regarded as safe (have been granted GRAS status) by the Food and Drug Administration of the United States, they are presently the FDA-preferred bacterial fermentation organisms for vitamin B12 production.

Void · 2017-01-07 17:58:37

Wikipedia: B12
Industrial production of B12 is achieved through fermentation of selected microorganisms. Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years. The species Pseudomonas denitrificans and Propionibacterium freudenreichii subsp. shermanii are more commonly used today. These are frequently grown under special conditions to enhance yield, and at least one company, Rhône-Poulenc of France, which has merged into Sanofi-Aventis, used genetically engineered versions of one or both of these species. Since a number of species of Propionibacterium produce no exotoxins or endotoxins and are generally regarded as safe (have been granted GRAS status) by the Food and Drug Administration of the United States, they are presently the FDA-preferred bacterial fermentation organisms for vitamin B12 production.

Thank You Robert a very decent and useful action on your part.

Your solar greenhouse then is the most important remaining part to solve. I do however also favor limited artificial light gardening for some specific plants. That is, if it can be afforded.
A specific plant I am interested in is apple trees or similar underground. It is more for aesthetic value of an underground park, but of course it could produce some special food as well, and a semi wild park-like experience.

But bulk food calories and protein, and necessary nutrition come first.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-07 18:02:50)

RobertDyck · 2017-01-07 22:19:14

Also remember I still advocate this: Chloroplast life support

You could read that thread for detail. The short version is to use isolated chloroplasts in a manner similar to fermentation. But in this case it takes CO2 and water and light, produces O2 and starch. Billions of years ago, eukariotic cells enslaved cyanobacteria. Those eukariotic cells became plants. Every plant has one chromosome which is a copy of the DNA from cyanobacteria. When the plant wants to make a chloroplast, that entire chromosome is copied to become a plasmid, the DNA for chromosome. A chloroplast today has 85% of the genes for cyanobacteria; it's missing some, making it dependant on the parent plant. There is an undergraduate university laboratory produces to isolate chloroplasts, I want to use that as an industrial process to produce them. Pea plants are the easiest to harvest, easy is good so I want to use that. To make the chloroplast last months instead of 20 minutes requires special handling, but will also require genetic modification to give it back some of the genes from cyanobacteria. Specifically all the genes to recycle one of the intermediary compounds used for photosynthesis. Cyanobacteria have 3 methods to do this, plants only have one, and that one method relies on other parts of the plant cell. I want the chloroplast to function on its own so I can culture them.

Pea plants polymerize sugar to become starch. So this will produce copious quantities of starch. A second variety of pea plant could be modified so the majority of sugar only becomes a disaccharide, normal white table sugar. These chlorplasts would be produced by planting a pea seed, growing to 14 days from germination, then harvesting leaves. The leaves are cut up, crushed, and processed using a laboratory centrifuge. The "special handling" I mentioned is to isolate them from oxygen, so this has to be done in a glove box filled with CO2 gas. Once isolated they're put in a bag of sterile water, provided by filtering by reverse osmosis. To provide CO2, the sterile water is drawn into a container and pressurized with CO2, to the same pressure as a bottle of soda pop, and left for at least an hour. That dissolves CO2 into water. This is how soda pop or seltzer is made. Add that carbonated water back to the bags of chloroplasts. The bag would be a semi-permeable membrane to let O2 out, and transparent to let light in.

This system is small enough that these bags could be used on a spacecraft. So stored bags could be brought from Earth. It would produce O2 and starch during transit from Earth. Instead of producing toxic gasses as a byproduct, this system would produce starch. That starch could be used as food. But on Mars you could grow peas to make these bags. And as I said, two varieties. The second would produce sugar. Since sugar is the primary feed stock for any fermentation process, this would supply all the fermentation tanks you propose.

elderflower · 2017-01-08 03:35:04

why not just start with cyanobacteria and delete what you don't want, rather than trying to recreate and add back some of the natural deletions?

Void · 2017-01-08 09:02:32

Good stuff, but in the direct "Photo" relm.

As I see it there should be three fields of farming research.
1) Direct Photo, under the sunlight, but on Mars necessary mechanical methods needed to provide shelter for plants, chloroplasts, or Cyanobacteria/Algae.
2) Artificial lighting, likely underground. (Permafrost tubes, lava tubes, sandstone caves, ect.)
3) Chemically induced farming. At it's root, most likely bacterial that consume Methane or CO & Oxygen.

I do not like the "OR" method often found on this site. We will do this or we will do that, but not both or all of them.

I like the "And" method. If one method is underproductive, then the investment in it can be trimmed back as necessary, but there should be continuing research in all plausible methods, because without research we will never develop these methods to their true potential.

The case for "Uniprotein" as found in post #14 is bolstered by the fact that it is already being done/researched on Earth, and the fact that in order to inhabit Mars it will be necessary to master the technology to make and store the chemicals that the Uniprotein process would use.
Therefore, at the very least Uniprotein could be used to use up excess production from those processes. It will always be desired to have some ability to have an excess capacity to make rocket fuels, and motor and fuel cell fuels, in case of trouble. Having that excess capacity, it's excess production can be made into food.

Having said that I will also say that I also wholeheartedly support your Chloroplast/Cyanobacteria schemes. They may ultimately tolerate much less babying than Earth plants do.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7348

Last edited by Void (2017-01-08 09:11:29)

RobertDyck · 2017-01-08 11:49:13

elderflower wrote:

why not just start with cyanobacteria and delete what you don't want, rather than trying to recreate and add back some of the natural deletions?

A whole living organism requires multiple nutrients. Chloroplasts do not grow, do not divide, and only require water and CO2. Whenever gave the chloroplast presentation, some biologist always says "why don't you just grow cyanobacteria"? My response is it requires a whole suite of nutrients; processing sewage to create nutrients requires an entire sewage treatment plant. And by "sewage" I mean human feces and urine. Just look at a city sewage treatment plant to see what that requires. Their response is always "yea, so?" You could do that at a permanent Mars settlement, but there is no way you could ever do that on a spacecraft. A grey water sewage treatment plant can be scaled down, doesn't have to be the size for an entire city, but will still be huge. There's no way you could operate one on a spacecraft. Furthermore, a few groups of biologists have advocated doing this, so many that NASA did a formal study. They found it takes so much time that from the astronauts first bowel movement after launch into space until those nutrients have become food on a plate, the spacecraft will have already returned to Earth.

So that isn't going to work. But again, whenever I give this presentation, at least one biologist says "yea, so?" They just don't get it. Equipment is too big and heavy, and time required too long. But they just say "Yea, so?"

With the chloroplast system, the only inputs are water and CO2. Those are recycled anyway. Instead of a complete cycle taking years, it takes hours. From a CO2 sorbent that ISS already has to become saturated, then baked out to remove CO2, takes hours. Then that CO2 is cooled and pressurized, stored in a tank. The urine collection tube and cabin dehumidifier already on ISS recover waste water, which is filtered and processed to produce drinking water. That drinking water has to be filtered one more time by reverse osmosis to ensure it's sterile before adding to the chloroplast bags. The chloroplast bags start producing oxygen as soon as light shines on them.

Ensuring cells don't divide means they must be produced by an external method. Chloroplasts are produced by leaves of a plant. That means growing a plant on the ground, not on a spacecraft. Chloroplasts are isolated, only chloroplasts are carried by the spacecraft. The only genes I want from cyanobacteria are those for the recycling pathways for 2-PhosphoGlycolate (2PG).

Void · 2017-01-08 16:17:50

I like your idea Robert. I hope it will be worked on to completion.

I think that if indeed it produced Starch and Sugar along with Oxygen, it would be able to feed organisms that could ferment calories, proteins, and nutrition.

Even so, I will also keep tabs on other ways to feed such organisms from the Martian environment, with human machinery.

But returning to your idea, some questions come to mind, and I have a desire to prompt a drift in a direction according to them.

Building a glazed structure which can be inhabited by either organisms or the Chloroplasts you want to use. It will be expensive to build those structures, and I wonder if output can be ramped up by various methods, to better justify the expense.

I can think of two things at this time.
1) Heliostats. I know you have looked into that. Just add more light to the enclosure.
2) Spectrum. I am guessing that your chloroplasts are tuned to certain wavelengths of light.
However, I believe that in nature, some type of photosynthesis can occur all the way from near infrared all the way to near ultraviolet.

In the case of Violet and Near Ultraviolet light that happens perhaps 200 meters? 200 feet? down in the ocean, in association with some corals, I think.
http://marinebio.org/oceans/deep/
Quote:

The deep sea begins below about 200 m, where sunlight becomes inadequate for photosynthesis

This surprisingly goes even deeper:
http://theartfulamoeba.com/2010/11/15/p … -the-deep/
Quote:

Yet that is precisely what scientists have found. In 71 percent of the black coral species examined at up to 1,300 feet beneath the surface, scientists found symbiotic algae either identical to or nearly identical to that found in surface corals

Ok so the above, is dealing with dim light, and as I recall, possibly wavelengths from Violet to Near Ultraviolet. * You will just have to take my word for it (Or not). I can't find the article where I read that.

This is infrared:
http://www.asu.edu/feature/includes/sum … tosyn.html
Quote:

Researchers find photosynthesis deep within ocean
Discovery of green sulfur bacteria living near hydrothermal vents has major implications for where photosynthesis happens and where life may reside
A team of researchers, including a photosynthesis expert from ASU, has found evidence of photosynthesis taking place deep within the Pacific Ocean. The team found a bacterium that is the first photosynthetic organism that doesn’t live off sunlight but from the dim light coming from hydrothermal vents nearly 2,400 meters (7,875 feet) deep in the ocean.

I really don't have a solution for the problem. I can state however, that once your basic method was achieved, it would be great to find a way to utilize a greater portion of the light spectrum.

One thing I have considered is prisms, and ciliated cyanobacteria that can navigate themselves to the light spectrum they want, but your Chloroplasts will likely not be able to do that. Not a criticism, just a noted assumption.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-08 16:52:43)

RobertDyck · 2017-01-08 17:03:39

Yes, we could use heliostats. The Mars Homestead Project wanted to bury the habitat in a hill side. We looked at heliostats on the hill with a light pipe from each leading to a diffuser in the habitat. A two story atrium with arched ceiling provides a pleasant living space. Especially if you add potted trees and other plants.

But a heliostat with light pipe leading to a chloroplast device? Good idea.

I didn't think short frequency light could penetrate deep ocean water. I thought only long frequency, like red. What do I know? But yes, plants use various different photodyes to absorb light. Scientists believe the first organisms to use photosynthesis used retinal, which absorbs green light. So cyanobacteria evolved chlorophyll which absorbs red and blue. It uses colours of light left over from the dominant organism at the time. Today plants use chloroplasts with primarily chlorophyll which absorbs red and blue, reflecting green. That's why leaves look green. But they can use other pigments to absorb other colours of light. All these dyes absorb light, acting like a tiny antenna to convert light to electric charge. The charge is passed to a protein that starts the chemical part of photosynthesis.

So by using different dyes, plants can make use of light available. All dyes direct the electric charge to the same protein that breaks water into oxygen, positive hydrogen ions, and electrons are passed on to the next part.

Here are a couple graphs from my chloroplast discussion thread. First the dyes in a plant commonly grown in aquariums...

And dyes used by some other plants...
nchembio.1555-F3.jpg

Void · 2017-01-08 17:32:34

Very good stuff. Light pipes and heliostats, and underground. Sounds good. Avoids much of the hassle of trying to use plastic films, and glass glazes. Probably safer and warmer as well.
Worth the struggle to develop the methods I would think. Perhaps compatible with underground tunnel systems in icy permafrost, sandstone, and lava tubes. That would be very helpful in reducing work to be able to incorporate them into a system/city.

Near Ultra Violet is likely the most powerful light spectrum to use, but making that kind of photosynthesis work at high intensity levels will be a further challenge beyond your pea chloroplasts.

Near infrared intrigues me as I imagine a heat source generating it.
It is likely not a best method, but I have imagined a opaque pressurized dome where heliostats heat a hot spot on it with a focus, and so the infrared or even red is used in photosynthesis.
However, not overheating the interior is an issue. Actually if you have excess heat on Mars, that might not be a bad thing. Just direct it to a area that could use more heat. No transparent dome required. (That's a first I think). Just a red sun-like spot, which supplies red and near infrared light. If you had a glazing on the inside, it might reduce the amount of non-usable infrared (Far) that would enter the dome, and help the red spot to stay red.

*One very nice thing about the above, is you are converting horribly hostile U.V. into useful red and near infrared light. Some will of course radiate from the exterior, but some will make it through. Another trick would be to put a coating of titanium oxide on the outer surface of the hot spot, and to extract photolized Oxygen and CO. Or add H20 Vapor and perhaps synthesize hydrocarbons. Speculative.

I have ideas, but really, first lets do red and blue?

Last edited by Void (2017-01-08 17:46:28)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2017-01-04 14:17:53

Crops, Unconventional

#2 2017-01-06 14:27:33

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#3 2017-01-06 14:28:38

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#4 2017-01-06 14:31:06

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#5 2017-01-06 14:34:16

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#6 2017-01-06 14:38:20

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#7 2017-01-06 14:39:33

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#8 2017-01-06 14:41:18

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#9 2017-01-06 14:57:47

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#10 2017-01-06 15:26:25

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#11 2017-01-06 15:32:30

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#12 2017-01-06 23:05:18

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#13 2017-01-07 10:49:10

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#14 2017-01-07 11:06:14

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#15 2017-01-07 11:39:31

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#16 2017-01-07 12:20:47

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#17 2017-01-07 14:14:50

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#18 2017-01-07 17:58:37

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#19 2017-01-07 22:19:14

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#20 2017-01-08 03:35:04

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#21 2017-01-08 09:02:32

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#22 2017-01-08 11:49:13

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#23 2017-01-08 16:17:50

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#24 2017-01-08 17:03:39

Re: Crops, Unconventional

#25 2017-01-08 17:32:34

Re: Crops, Unconventional

Board footer