E=mcÂ²

ERRORIST · 2004-04-08 13:27:31

Mass in this universe is a finite number like all the other universes. There are as many universes as grains of sand on the beach.The mass in these universes are also a finite number.

GCNRevenger · 2004-04-08 14:07:56

Errorist: Ummm. So?

ERRORIST · 2004-04-08 14:48:42

So how can you infinate mass?

SBird · 2004-04-08 15:20:14

1) We have no idea if there are other universes or, if there are, how many there are.

2) We still don't know that our own universe isn't infinite. The Big Bang theory would argue against a finite size but the fact is that we've never see and 'edge' to the universe so we don't (and probably never will) know that the universe is finite or infinite with 100% accuracy.

3) the fact that any object with a non-zero rest mass has to have an infinite mass at light sepped is exactly why normal matter can't go light speed. It is also why photons have no rest mass. Because they have no rest mass, their total mass is not infinity going at light speed.

chat · 2004-04-08 16:42:39

SBird,

I have a pretty good understanding of the time dilation theory, it's a good read.
Well as good as anyone already moving at some good % of C already could have

As you say , as the traveler speeds up the traveler still experiences light at light speed in all directions as he simply slows in time, but the light stays constant.
The red and blue shifts would tell him what is really happening though.

From an outside view of the traveler we would see nothing special other than a speedy traveler.

The mass increase is a stranger one, and opens lots of ideas for speculation.

My favorite is also #4. the 4th D at C.
I bet nature simply wont allow mass at C though in normal space/time, so unless someone creates a way around it, we will never know for sure.

Scotty!! (long pause) get back to work,(long pause) (fast talk) we need some answers mister. *lol*

ERRORIST,

I also believe we are simply 1 universe in a grander scheme of universes.
And that grand scheme of universes is but one in a larger scheme.

But how would you ever prove or disprove this if less than C is the max speed in ours.
You could never escape this universe to find out.
Well maybe wormholes or black holes have a way to escape.
But if your going to find out with either, I am not going to be a passenger

Many universes might explain why a universe can only get so big before it collapses.
If ours runs into another space/time then both will push each other back. (guess)

But an easier solution i think is that right now about 50% of the mass in our universe is at its edge. (guess)
In a universe expanding slower than C the edge is growing in mass.
Light and radiation etc etc cant go beyond the edge into a void with no space/time, and it cant bounce back off a void.

At some point the entire outside pulls more on the inside of the universe.
Good reason for the speedup we are now seeing.

The great pull, no dark matter need apply for the job.
And no special properties of space pushing on anything.
And a way that galaxies could colide with each other, i see no way for that to happen in a semi even expanding universe with push properties that evenly push everything apart.

Thinking about writing a paper on that edge theory, but the math is ugly to try and prove it.
And i cant find anyone working on an idea similar.

Maybe we are 1 of 1, or 1 of ?.
But either way we will probably not get to find out.
No reason you can't think about it though, and that is the fun part

GCNRevenger,

You are correct, nothing special happens when you speed up.
Just the time slows in your perspective.
You travel 4.5 lys but it takes you 15 earth minutes to blink on the trip.
You believe you blinked normally.

The earthlings see you take 4.5 ys plus a few months to get there at 99% C.
But you as the traveler believe earth is messed up with its distances to alpha centuari, because in your perspective it only took a few months to get there.

You radio back to find out who messed up, wait 9 years for an answer to who the goof was.
And they say no problem detected, the distance was correct, are you ok?.

Your also going to be pretty confused when they tell you that 4.5 years plus a few months have elapsed on your few month trip at 99%C.

Just my understanding on dilation though.

SBird · 2004-04-08 16:53:52

That's correct, assuminga .999c trip to Alpha Centauri, you'll percieve just a few days of travel time versus the 4.5 years and change everyone else sees you do. The length dialation, however, means that from your persepctive, you only travelled a few million miles. Basically, the faster you go, the shorter your trip becomes. It's a consequence of intersecting spacetime at a different angle.

What is life like for a photon? It's difficult to say - the conditions at light speed are so peculiar that it's hard to really under stand them. As far as we know, a photon doesn't experience time or space as we know it. Since length and time dialation are infinite, the photon, from its own perspective, sees no time passage and actually doesn't go anywhere. Basically, the photon does not experience time and views the space part of the universe as two dimensional in the direction that it is going.

Yeah, wierd. But that's nothing compared to the wierd voodoo going on in quantum physics.

ERRORIST · 2004-04-08 19:02:43

Chat,
Some things math just can't explain.

chat · 2004-04-09 04:23:44

sbird,

Weird is an understatement

But it does make sense when you think that everyone has to see the same sort of thing no matter what they are doing.

We all belive our perspective is correct, and in some sense it is, but in some sense it isn't.

Traveling as a photon is so speculative and hard to get any real understanding on.

It makes some sense that to the photon the universe is all in one place, and the travel in a place with no time cant exist, and neither can the space.

Its almost a contradiction upon itself, but its not
Probably the way the entire universe works.

Its an infinite universe , but its not.
It last forever, but it doesn't.
Its the first big bang, but it isn't.
It was all created at some point, but it wasn't.

All concepts us humans just hate

I've read a little on quantum physics, and in my mind its pretty messed up.

ERRORIST,

I would have to agree on that one.
The math can only ever be as good as the guess.

dicktice · 2004-04-09 08:23:14

I wish (Sir) Fred Hoyle was still alive. He'd have something to contribute. Maybe, if we go back to his "continuous universe" conjectures we might winnow-out some concepts that those who missed his life and times might run with. He certainly was an original thinker and I, for one, miss his sass.

chat · 2004-04-09 09:21:22

dicktice,

Was Fred the gentleman i emailed a while back about some strange concepts of the universe we chatted about ?

If so, i never got a reply from him about it.
I just thought my ideas were so insane or so radical he had no conclusion.

If that was him, i am sorry to hear about it.

Anyone that thinks outside the box is a great loss.

I'm a pretty Sassy guy, so if the sass level gets to low i will fill in a bit

SpaceNut · 2016-06-04 19:39:30

Time to fix another shifting and artifact filled topic

SpaceNut · 2016-06-05 19:14:15

Finally got all posts fixed and realized that the content was in definition of c = speed of light, M= mass and E = energy. When we look at energy its got potential and kenetic which both have mass to define them with the latter motion of speed. Then I remember that the sun produces the speed of light by fussion while the equation was to speak to fission so in essence they both must be used to solve for the common constant C....

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-06-06 08:19:31

E=mcÂ²?
That is not the formula I remember. What is Â and why are we squaring it, and why isn't c being squared as is usually the case? c is the speed of light, I don't know what Â is.

RobertDyck · 2016-06-06 08:56:50

This is a discussion from before the Great Crash. Posts on the first page reference c², so I assume "Â" is an artifact from the crash. Remember, before the Great Crash there were attributes you could use on the forum that don't work any more. Such as colour, font size, etc. I assume it's something like that.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2016-06-06 09:18:33)

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-06-06 09:07:30

Oh I see, I thought perhaps someone was trying to prove that there was a way around the speed of light by adding another variable Â whatever that was.

SpaceNut · 2016-06-06 19:16:38

I believe you are correct with the artifact but I am also wondering if there was intent to talk about the energy that is required in the relativity question for acceleration of a craft to go faster than light...

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-06-07 08:06:49

Well its under Interplanetary Transportation and that famous Equation suggests Albert Einstein, so my assumption was that someone was trying to reworks his equation to suggest that he was wrong about the speed of light being the final limit, that is what I assumes the Â² was about. Though it didn't make sense to me, until I learned it was an artifact to make the superscript 2. What I do when I want to make a ² is I go to Excel click on Insert on the task bar and then on Ω Symbol, I insert it on a cell, copy the character and paste it here! I can get all sorts of characters that aren't found on my keyboard that way.

SpaceNut · 2016-06-07 19:15:25

The reason for thinking about the equation as it was a way to explain the results of fission but then again we know that we have fussion that gives a resultant that as well is energy but are the equations for each the same as under fussion we are changing the mass even if only by the tiniest of amounts....as the sun's solar winds are photons which came from this very much explosive event called the sun....

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