Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

NovaMarsollia · 2002-09-21 19:03:35

Space exploration is bad for the environment of the Earth becos of:

1) Much current spaceware is used in directly exploiting the Earth. Environmental satellites, for intance, guide eco-disasterous fishing and whaling fleets, oil exploration, mining investments, logging etc. These satellites may contribute to insightful knowledge that helps make environmental policy but more often than not they are used to exploit the environment. Other space technologies (eg weather, communications and military satellites) speed this process up. If this continues into the future, in the vein of Mars society plans, things will get worse because the exploitation will be much more efficient.

2) The launch sites of space vehicles are environmentally damaging. We can all cite the KSC to delegitimise this claim but consider the ESA launch center in French Guiana. A UCLA report has indicated that this space port has devasted both environment and community in the french dependency. The same fate will befall a myriad of other planned spaceports, esp some planned for us here in Australia. If this continues in the vein of Mars Society plans things will get even worse.

3) The terrafoming ideals of Mars developers promote a disposable-planet mentality.They encourage us not to care about the Earth cos there's always somewhere else to go.

4) If space expansion proceeds in the vein of Mars society plans then space industrialists are given more power to dictate the economic and ecological policies back on Earth. If industrialists (both of a space and non-space bent) on Earth are anything to go by, this will mean the massive implementation of anti-environmental policies here on Earth.

5) If space development does proceed in the vein of the Mars Society plans, it will inequitably distribute space benefits. This inequality in materials and power will widen the gap between rich and poor, thrust poor people into deeper poverty, and thus excacerbate their environmental woes.

6) Space exploration contributes to a technocentric, industrialist cornucopianism: the idea that science, technology and capitalist imperialism will solve all our problems. If space expansion proceeds in the vein of Mars Society plans this will get worse.

7) Space expansion, by promising the salvation of Earth and earthlings thru massive technotopian idealism, diverts attention away from the true causes of environmental degradation (on Earth or on Mars): poverty, industrialism, capitalist imperialism, inequality, technocracy.

8) Space expansion priviliges humanity's endeavours over any thing else in the universe. This grand anthropocentric hubris makes humans feel they are the only important thing in the universe and this, when fed back into Earth-based society, will promote anthropocentric policies on Earth that will disregard non-humans and their environments.

John_Frazer · 2002-12-12 21:39:01

Hear, Hear!

Humans are poisonous virus cancerous scum, and shouldn't be allowed to export our wasteful practises into the universe.
We'd be morally better off to let the universe go its way without us, and leave the Earth alone in space & time.

Do the world a favor; commit suicide and don't have kids.

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
"May we live long and die out"

{disclaimer: This is sarcasm on my part! I'll be back to nuke the post which started this thread, when I have time to waste later.}

soph · 2002-12-12 21:54:47

if you live anywhere but africa, its kind of ironic. yes, im sure you would have been the one to say, no, lets not go north, we don't want to kill any more animals for food. its not fair. and the strongest, most clever people shouldnt be allowed to succeed, because us lazy, whining people dont have the drive or wherewithal to compete. boo-hoo.

never mow your lawn again. thats terraforming, buddy.

Palomar · 2002-12-12 23:40:46

Space exploration is bad for the environment of the Earth becos of:

*Bovine feces snipped...WHOOPS -- nothing left!

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2002-12-13 18:43:05

Space exploration is bad for the environment of the Earth becos of:
*Bovine feces snipped...WHOOPS -- nothing left!

Well said. I hereby refrain from a much more abrasive expression of the same sentiment.

Flat Tharsis · 2003-02-07 23:13:50

Yes, mankind is a virus and we should all be exterminated....you know agent smith, you and your neo-marxist, anti capitalist friends ignore history and reality.

If you really beleive that practice what you preach and don't breed so as not to contribute to the over population by us worthless destructive humans.

Alexander Sheppard · 2003-02-08 14:31:27

I think this deserves a serious reply on some matters. Many of you seem to be very indoctrinated with Zubrin's aversion to enviornmental protection. In the real world, enviornmental protection fits in well with space exploration--you can't explore space if everyone is dying at home from cancer, because the ozone layer just dissapeared.

Much current spaceware is used in directly exploiting the Earth

Of course, we're always going to need to exploit the Earth in some ways: even animals do that. If spaceware is being used to help exploit it in a potentially problematic way, there's a simple solution: don't.

The launch sites of space vehicles are environmentally damaging

In some cases I think space vehicles and their launch sites may be enviornmentally damaging ; there are two options. If the damage is not so great, then we may just tolerate it. If it is, then we can design new vehicles.

The terrafoming ideals of Mars developers promote a disposable-planet mentality

This is like saying that having more than one person in the world is a bad idea because it promotes the idea that if someone dies it is not important.

If space expansion proceeds in the vein of Mars society plans then space industrialists are given more power

Well, they shouldn't be: space exploration should be controlled by those affected by it, which is, to some degree, all humanity, and, to some degree, the people who are working on it. How to compromise with elites in the framework of the current situation is another matter, however.

Space exploration contributes to a technocentric, industrialist cornucopianism: the idea that science, technology and capitalist imperialism will solve all our problems

On the contrary, capitalist imperialism and its variants will probably lead to the destruction of civilization and technology in the long run, and hence space exploration, if unchecked.

A lot of this IS ridiculous, and so I suspect is was written by someone who was trolling.

Palomar · 2003-02-08 15:28:42

Alexander S. writes: "I think this deserves a serious reply on some matters. Many of you seem to be very indoctrinated with Zubrin's aversion to enviornmental protection. In the real world, enviornmental protection fits in well with space exploration--you can't explore space if everyone is dying at home from cancer, because the ozone layer just dissapeared."

*I'm an MS member...I'm not sure who you have in mind regarding the above [smile], but rest assured I feel environmental concerns here on Earth -are- important. That should go without saying. At this point in time it is only Earth which enables us to live, survive, etc.

As for being "indoctrinated by Dr. Zubrin," would it surprise you to know that I've only read his _Case For Mars_? That's it, except for occasional articles/letters written by him either at the MS site or in the quarterly paper members receive. I don't even know how old the man is, how many children he and his wife have, etc., etc. I'm not assuming you were including me in the group you're thinking of, but just want to clear the air on this one. I would be in favor of going to Mars even if Robert Zubrin were a veterinarian instead of who he is.

Alexander S: "A lot of this IS ridiculous, and so I suspect is was written by someone who was trolling."

*Yep. And he was bounced by Adrian months ago.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-08 17:00:25

You know, I'm actually insulted, and not to offend anyone (because I appreciate everyones input on this forum), but I'm insulted when people make generalizations about other people.

In this thread, everyone is ?indoctrinated [by] Zubrin? in another thread, ?[to the effect of] environmentalists are stupid fools whose ideas only made things worse for the environment.?

It's insulting, because such generalizations are often innacruate... There are at least half as many Reds on this forum as there are Greens or Blues. And we can show incontrovertible proof where many environmentalists have helped the ecosystem, or at the very least, show where the arguments to the contrary are flawed.

I try my best not to make generalizations about people (the only person who may have gotten to me being A.J.). At the very most, if I generalize, it's about systems, not people.

But anyway, to get back on topic. The sad thing about Nova, is that he actually believed the stuff he was saying. And it's not to say that there wasn't merit to his beliefs, it's just that they're so easily debunked...

Palomar · 2003-02-08 19:23:34

But anyway, to get back on topic. The sad thing about Nova, is that he actually believed the stuff he was saying.

*Yeah. And the subtitle to this thread (which he started, of course) reads BAD BAD BAD...reminds me of an incensed master waving his/her finger in a dog's face in admonition, or a parent scolding a 2-year-old.

Oh well.

Hmmmm. I should have asked ol' Nova when he was still around if he thinks space exploration is BAD.

Ain't I a stinker?

--Cindy

soph · 2003-02-08 19:28:58

Yeah, just look at me and Josh, well, I think we share the same views on space exploration, but everything else, whew.

Josh Cryer · 2003-02-09 00:06:43

Everyone agrees with me, they just don't know it yet.

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#1 2002-09-21 19:03:35

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#2 2002-12-12 21:39:01

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#3 2002-12-12 21:54:47

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#4 2002-12-12 23:40:46

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#5 2002-12-13 18:43:05

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#6 2003-02-07 23:13:50

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#7 2003-02-08 14:31:27

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#8 2003-02-08 15:28:42

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#9 2003-02-08 17:00:25

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#10 2003-02-08 19:23:34

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#11 2003-02-08 19:28:58

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

#12 2003-02-09 00:06:43

Re: Space development and Earth's Environment - BAD BAD BAD!

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