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#1 2008-04-05 12:44:47

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: making it on Mars

So what do we want/need to make on Mars?

I'm writing this in the context of a minimalist six person mission to Mars with a follow up second mission of similar size after 2 years. I am planning for energy abundance. This assumes a good surplus of electric power.

So what industrial processes and goods will we need to provide for.

MISSION 1:

1.  We'll need to derive oxygen from oxygen bearing rocks, or from splitting water.

2. Splitting water will produce hydrogen.

3. We need to derive carbon from the atmosphere.

4.  Methane to be made from combining hydrogen and carbon.

5.  Preferable to derive nitrogen from nitrates so as to create a good earth analogue atmosphere.

6.  Water mining (mining of permafrost) or water manufacture from hydrate rocks.

7.  Mining of various metal ores and gas producing ores (will require prospecting).

8.  Smelting of ores.

9.  Steel production: production of various sizes of steel rod.

10.  Bamboo crop production.

11. Fashioning of bamboo using wood lathes and compressor to create
containers, tools, furniture etc.

12.  Use of iron, aluminum and carbon and other materials to make electric motors. 

13, Polymer production: either through combining hydrogen and carbon or by crop growing, to produce appropriate oils.

14.  Manufacture of hydroponic farming gear e.g. trays, rock wool, tubes,
hanging chains, steel rods, farm tools etc. 

15. Use materials to fashion useful basic vehicle e.g. a wheelbarrow. Or a hand guided motorised trolley.

16.  Use "sandbags" and the Ecodome method of construction to build a couple of experimental buildings on the surface with inflatable tent to go inside perhaps. Could be used for food storage.

17.  Glass and ceramics production to be started.

18.  Commence creation of soil base.

MISSION 2

All of the Mission 1 activities will continue of course.

1.  Construct an electric vehicle, unpressurised.  Possible an electric trike.
There are bamboo framed bikes and trikes on the market .Bamboo may be a good material to use. Not clear how it stands up to extreme cold on Mars.

2.  Production of bricks, cement etc.  - range of construction materials. Use to build a surface habitat.

3.  Production of light bulbs and electric cabling.

4.  Complete substantial soil manufacture, mixing the soil base with organic material, chemicals produced in the colony's lab, bacteria and nutrient solutions.   

5.  Solar panel production to be attempted. Probably be quite a crude low powered version. More experimental than anything.

6.  Turbines and steam engines.

7.  Chemical batteries.

8. Clothes manufacture - using cotton and linen.


CONCLUDING POINTS

None of the above will involve large scale production.  All told, we are probably only talking about a few tonnes of material for a six person mission.

The colony would have access to digger, lathes, smelters, automatic glass blowers, computer controlled machines, presses, grinders, polishers, gas cylinders, inflatable gas tanks, etc all imported from earth. 

I'm particularly interested in comments on whether the split between activities is properly prioritised although many will be taking place in parallel.  However, essentially this can be thought of as "serial production". So we make on thing, store it and then move on the next thing we have to make and store that. Then later we might go back to store A and store B and combine them to make C which we again store.

In this way we gradually build up our store of products and purified materials.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#2 2012-03-26 19:43:12

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,436

Re: making it on Mars

Before the list of design comes the research phase to know what we question currently about mans ability to survive. A small peice of the radiation question may be in some of the collected data from the MSL as it travels.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2012-088

One of Curiosity's 10 science instruments, the Radiation Assessment Detector (RAD) has been collecting data for three months, monitoring the natural radiation environment in interplanetary space. This information, particularly effects RAD has measured from recent solar flares, is crucial for design of human missions to Mars.

Then again the untried Sky hook will also lead to a future or.....lets hope for a positive to happen.

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#3 2012-03-26 20:07:07

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: making it on Mars

SpaceNut wrote:

Before the list of design comes the research phase to know what we question currently about mans ability to survive. A small peice of the radiation question may be in some of the collected data from the MSL as it travels.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2012-088

One of Curiosity's 10 science instruments, the Radiation Assessment Detector (RAD) has been collecting data for three months, monitoring the natural radiation environment in interplanetary space. This information, particularly effects RAD has measured from recent solar flares, is crucial for design of human missions to Mars.

Then again the untried Sky hook will also lead to a future or.....lets hope for a positive to happen.

Exciting to know the MSL is over half way there already!

I think we know a lot of the risks, but the more information, the better.

Do you know if any experiments have been done with electro-magnetic protection barriers to divert cosmic particles?

Just an idea, what about building a kind of arch made of ice or icecrete to cover the habitat and afford radiation protection.

Plus if we put the habitat in a trench with a covering of several feet of regolith, that will help as well.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#4 2015-11-29 17:11:06

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,436

Re: making it on Mars

Here is a blast from the past.

We never did try to post numbers for each action item for what it would take to deliver the mass requirements or for the energy needs for each topic.

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#5 2015-11-30 03:47:53

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: making it on Mars

Interesting to look back on some older posts, to see where your focus was then.

I don't think there was anything particularly wrong in what I was suggesting, but I think I am probably more relaxed about ISRU now. Developments in rocket technology (particularly controlled landing of first stages) is bringing down costs to the extent that we can afford to take a lot more tonnage to Mars.

So, I would envisage us arriving with more tonnage than I was perhaps expecting and developing ISRU in perhaps a more focussed way.

One point I think I am right on is bamboo production.  Bamboo is such a versatile and quick growing material, that I think it would prove very useful e.g. for making kitchen utensils, flooring, furniture and so on.  It would interesting to assess its performance at very low temperature. I have a suspicion if would perform well.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#6 2015-11-30 06:35:23

Antius
Member
From: Cumbria, UK
Registered: 2007-05-22
Posts: 1,003

Re: making it on Mars

Solar might turn out to be a lot easier on Mars.  The day-night temperature variations are so great that one could run a heat engine based on the thermal difference.  In such a thin atmosphere it should also be possible to make flat plate collectors using adobe or rammed earth with a dark surface coating painted on, without the need for glass.  Run hoses through the collectors and pass compressed CO2 through the hoses.  Hot and cold differences could be stored within the ground itself (boreholes?).  With little or no groundwater or atmosphere above the stores, the soil itself will provide good insulation.  The Martian atmosphere itself, being mostly CO2, could be compressed and used as a working fluid.

If such a system can work at a hot temperature of +0C and cold temperature of -50C, then Carnot efficiency would be 22.4%.  Most heat engines get about 2/3rds Carnot efficiency, but that’s still ~15%.  That is about as good as PV panels here on Earth and a lot cheaper.

One could do away with the cold store altogether and simply store day-time heat in the latent heat of melting of water.  The engine could then be run at night using the panels as radiators and used to run a compressor.  The cold night-time Martian atmosphere could then be condensed and stored as a liquid under pressure.  This could be released and allowed to boil to power compressed air tools when mechanical power was needed.

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#7 2015-11-30 19:43:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,436

Re: making it on Mars

louis wrote:

So what do we want/need to make on Mars?

I'm writing this in the context of a minimalist six person mission to Mars with a follow up second mission of similar size after 2 years. I am planning for energy abundance. This assumes a good surplus of electric power.

So what industrial processes and goods will we need to provide for.

MISSION 1:

1.  We'll need to derive oxygen from oxygen bearing rocks, or from splitting water.

CONCLUDING POINTS

None of the above will involve large scale production.  All told, we are probably only talking about a few tonnes of material for a six person mission.

links to discusion of item 1 but only from regolith processing to get oxygen are to follow in a seperate topic

Regolith processing to create oxygen only

lets do each of the bullets in this manner and try to stay on topic...

anyone else want to take a stab at it?

Void topic link Atmospheric separations.

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