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#1 2021-08-06 15:10:11

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Artificial Photosynthesis

Overview of where we are on Artificial Photosynthesis, which seems focused on splitting water with sunlight and a chemical catalyst, to create green hydrogen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ4sa50H5V8

AP is a promising technology, and one that might be more relevant to Mars than iron-air batteries.

One gets the feeling AP is due a breakthrough. There doesn't seem to be any major roadblock in terms of physics.


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#2 2024-03-04 08:00:46

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,746

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

Amazingly enough, Louis created this topic some years ago, and it has been sitting unanswered ...

While Louis was looking at an idea that has nothing to do with food production, I'm hoping that kbd512 and Calliban can/will develop their conversation about artificial photosynthesis for product of food in this topicl.

(th)

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#3 2024-03-04 08:27:22

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

missed this thread, Louis explored many interesting ideas

and also Artificially made Sunlight can come in many forms

Pictures: Mirror Beams Light to Norwegian Town in Winter for First Time
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie … s-sunlight
Thanks to new big mirrors called heliostats, the town of Rjukan, Norway, west of Oslo, is getting sunlight beamed down to the square from surrounding mountains.

to try exactly mimic a chemical process that copies the natural process of photosynthesis to convert sunlight, water, and carbon dioxide into carbohydrates and oxygen seems to be energy expensive for now, organisms are able to collect about 50% of incident solar radiation the synth man made stuff with catalyst(s) and machine and metal plastic construct in labs is 4 - 6% efficient at best I think but not sure, a lot of electro chemical waste in splitting and using energy in what nature itself does easily and naturally.

I'm not sure on the latest developments, maybe science has improved in recent months and years.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-04 08:34:45)

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#4 2024-03-04 08:30:04

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,352

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

Here is the Science Daily article on the use of Acetate for food production.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 122624.htm

They are talking about using solar power to produce electricity, which is then used to chemically manufacture acetic acid.  The acetic acid then feeds simple plants, fungi and yeast.  They claim that this is up to 18x more efficient than photosynthesis.  Considering that a PV panel is only 20 - 30% efficient, that is impressive indeed.  It suggests an electricity-calorie efficiency that is well into double figures.  But any electricity source could be used.  The average human requires 10MJ (~3kWh) of food energy per day.  If indeed we can convert electricity into food with high efficiency, then a 1000MWe nuclear reactor could feed at least 1 million people, probably closer to 3 million if these efficiency figures are right.

If this works out, we coukd produce all of the food we need in very compact facilities on Mars.  No need for acres of greenhouses.  It also reduces considerably the insane amounts of power we were expecting to need to live on Mars.  Most of this power was on the assumption that food plants were going to be grown under LED lights or in nuclear heated greenhouses.  If we side step that issue, power requirements, though still large by Earth standards, begin to look more achievable.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-03-04 08:34:29)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#5 2024-03-04 11:45:01

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 6,975

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

It is not required that this could be done in an ice covered reservoir, but obviously methods like that could have advantages.

This would look very uninviting to many people, but consider an upgrade of it: zPufrNM.png

You could put a nested container in the water and heat that up to be very comfortable.
I do agree that nuclear has its advantages over solar.  We will want to develop something that can be somewhat universal, in the solar system and beyond.

For Mars, also we may be able to have tunnels and vaults in the rock that connect to this sort of thing.

I hope that they can find a way to promote chemosynthesis in vascular plants, not just Algae, Yeast, and Mushrooms.
I think that for vascular plants it would be good if say 95% of the energy to grow were chemical and 5% as light from LEDs or the equivalent.

But it may be possible to use things like Algae, Yeast, and Mushrooms, to foster other life forms such as aquatic life.
Certain creatures make shells and those could be valuable materials.

Such a largely aquatic biome might be the first one that could be created on many worlds, and of course that includes Mars.  As a biome it would be dependent on the actions of humans and machines, but it would be a proper step in ther right direction, I believe.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-04 11:59:47)


Done.

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#6 2024-03-04 12:35:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,746

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

The article cited by Calliban in #4 is based upon original work cited here:

MLA
APA
Chicago
University of California - Riverside. "Artificial photosynthesis can produce food without sunshine."
ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 23 June 2022.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220623122624.htm

I'm hoping our members will follow this work and report on future developments.

here is a forward looking excerpt:

The research, published in Nature Food, uses a two-step electrocatalytic process to convert carbon dioxide, electricity, and water into acetate, the form of the main component of vinegar. Food-producing organisms then consume acetate in the dark to grow. Combined with solar panels to generate the electricity to power the electrocatalysis, this hybrid organic-inorganic system could increase the conversion efficiency of sunlight into food, up to 18 times more efficient for some foods.

It appears there is a great deal of work yet to be done before this idea becomes practical.  The report includes mention of breeding selected plants to use acetate in their normal growing process with sunlight or LED lighting.  In other words, this might find application in the existing food industry as a way of cultivating marginal land by providing supplemental resources to existing plants.

(th)

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#7 2024-03-05 05:12:50

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,352

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

I am surprised that this topic has not recieved more interest.  To clarify what this research actually means if it can be scaled up: We would no longer need 'land' to produce food.

Using acetate as an energy source for plant, algae, yeast and fungi growth, appears to allow the efficient conversion of electrical energy into calories.  Instead of needing hundreds of thousands of acres of greenhouses to produce food for a city of 1 million people, say, we instead have a compact factory unit powered by a nuclear reactor.  Food production was the single biggest challenge standing in the way of Mars colonisation, because the space requirements of plants producing calories via photosynthesis are so high.  But using the artificial photosynthesis route obviates that problem entirely.  It allows the entire Martian settlement to be located underground without need for country sized surface greenhouses.  In addition to solving all future food problems for Earth and Mars, this development could allow colonisation of practically every other part of the solar system.  It dramatically simplifies human life support requirements.

Original reference: https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00530-x

From the article, the authors estimate that using solar PV to generate electricity, sunlight can be converted into calories at 4% efficiency.  Given the assumed efficiency of PV in this scenario, that equates to an 18% efficiency of conversion of electricity into calories.  The average human needs 2000 Calories (2.324 kWh) of food per day.  Assuming an 18% conversion of electricity into food energy, a 1000MWe nuclear reactor could feed 1,858,000 people.  This suggests that a modest sized nuclear reactor could produce all of the food needed for a city of 1 million people on Mars.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-03-05 07:09:41)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#8 2024-03-05 07:22:12

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,746

Re: Artificial Photosynthesis

For Calliban re #7

Thanks for keeping this topic going....

Would a new dedicated topic be a better bet for development of this subject?

Each of us should be able to set up a small test growing facility at our respective homes.

My guess is there is a lot we (humans) don't know about the practicality of this idea.

Please investigate what it would take to set up a small test facility.  Is acetate commercially available?

Are there any risks associated with the material?

It is soon to be spring in the Northern hemisphere on Earth.

Is acetate worth considering as a plant food for plants in low light locations, such as the north side of homes where sunlight is indirect for much of the year?

(th)

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