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#1 2021-03-11 05:55:54

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Could China beat Space X to Mars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUoTNTziE6A

Interesting question.

I agree that China is probably giving a human landing on Mars much more priority than they publicly acknowledge.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#2 2021-03-11 07:17:13

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,008

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

For Louis re new topic .... Thanks for the link to the interesting video, ** and ** for setting up this new topic!

This certainly appears to be a horse race of global proportions!

I liked the animation of the claw encompassing the Earth!

This was a well composed and configured video. 

(th)

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#3 2021-03-11 07:41:05

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,218

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

I think they already have, in so much as they already have a spacecraft in low Mars orbit.  A manned mission will require a great deal of technological development in subsystems like space suits, power supply and life support, that the Chinese may be better prepared for than SpaceX.  As a national government running the world's largest economy and largest manufacturing industry, the Chinese government has far more resources at its disposal than SpaceX.  I wouldn't be surprised if Mars became an exclusive Chinese colony.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#4 2021-03-11 10:19:02

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 2,306

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

SpaceX has Elon's Tesla out there in elliptical orbit and going beyond Mars. He did that 2 years ago.

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#5 2021-03-11 20:59:17

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Yep they have $14,000 billion at their disposal. While SpaceX/Musk maybe have $20 billion (over a few years). But the CCP have a lot of calls on their money and their attention, plus they are deeply paranoid about political threats. So while I am sure they would like to beat Musk to Mars, they also want to crush Christianity, incorporate Hong Kong into one system, defeat the Muslim threat, take over the South China Sea, invade Taiwan, have the world's most powerful military and navy, secure all the world's minerals and become the world's no. 1 economy. Is Mars really top of their bill in the way it is for Musk? I doubt it.

Your point about sub-systems is perfectly valid but I think there are a lot of off-the-shelf solutions for Musk and SpaceX. NASA for coms. Bigelow for habs. ISS life support for survival on Mars, industrial 3D printers.

We have to remember that whereas we are used to robot rovers operating out in the open on the cyrogenically cold Mars surface, most activities relating to Space X's human mission will take place indoors in heated environments. So you can use ordinary 3D printers (as long as the lower G is not an issue etc).


Calliban wrote:

I think they already have, in so much as they already have a spacecraft in low Mars orbit.  A manned mission will require a great deal of technological development in subsystems like space suits, power supply and life support, that the Chinese may be better prepared for than SpaceX.  As a national government running the world's largest economy and largest manufacturing industry, the Chinese government has far more resources at its disposal than SpaceX.  I wouldn't be surprised if Mars became an exclusive Chinese colony.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#6 2021-03-11 21:18:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Well news has it that Russia is partnering with China for a moon station and landings for the future....

edit
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru … d=msedgdhp

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#7 2021-05-15 15:44:42

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

They are not racing, that is for sure. In regards to discussion here I think you guys should re-open registration, I'm lucky to remember my old passwords on old blogs and this place the day of the old icok bbs and people chatting about the Mars society experiments growing stuff. The Chinese seem to move at glacial pace but each step they have done these past years is massively important, I remember watching them way back in January 2001 some people thought them too old fashioned and communist still going around in Mao boots and boiler suits, then Shenzhou launched it had Rabbits, seeds, some other animals. Soon some years later you read of plans for manned missions and space stations, on the Moon Rover they already tried to farm some biosphere Cotton, Sprout Vegetable and other Seeds. I think the un-manned landing is impressive, the Rover looks good and what they done is a good achievement.

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#8 2021-05-27 11:18:00

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Moon & Mars done, Jupiter & Uranus next on the list — China’s racing away in space too. They are doing outer Solar stystem, interstellar or heliosphere missions next. https://flipboard.com/topic/spacecraft/ … ay-in-spa/

https://www.msn.com/

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#9 2021-05-30 16:26:45

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

SpaceX Appears to Be Assembling Its Orbital Starship Booster
https://futurism.com/the-byte/spacex-as … ip-booster

China launches Tianzhou-2 cargo craft to new space station
https://www.spaceflightinsider.com/orga … e-station/

Musk is still moving!

'One year ago today.
It’s wild to think about how the # Starship program has gone from this to being on the verge of an orbital launch, with a fully-stacked Starship/Super Heavy.'
https://twitter.com/TylerG1998/status/1 … 0338329602

'We hope to see a Re-flight of the historical prototype'
https://twitter.com/NextHorizonsSF/stat … 2733672448

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#10 2021-05-30 16:30:09

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

They seem to be about 20 years behind NASA with their Mars lander rover.

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

Moon & Mars done, Jupiter & Uranus next on the list — China’s racing away in space too. They are doing outer Solar stystem, interstellar or heliosphere missions next. https://flipboard.com/topic/spacecraft/ … ay-in-spa/

https://www.msn.com/


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#11 2021-06-01 11:25:36

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Will Mars be speaking Chinese or Spanish?
The Mars Society of Spain and Peru has something going on the China station, they seem to do desert experiments in region in southwestern Peru, they have some Mesmerizing Desert Oasis places and its a region studied by astrobiology.Almost the entire of Andes Mountains have the location of a large, high-elevation dry region.

Astronauts on the upcoming Shenzhou-12 mission will engage in spacewalks outside the Tianhe core module of China’s Tiangong space station, a key figure in the nation’s manned space endeavor said.
https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-read … tion-site/
China will launch a trio of astronauts on the upcoming Shenzhou XII mission in June to dock with the currently unoccupied Tianhe core module of China’s Tiangong space station.

They have a number of international partners lined up for their station.  China's large modular space station or Tiangong space station will have  a Telescope from Germany, a Study of Heat and Fire from Japan, a Tumors in Space thing led by the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, some power Panel a Muslim Solar Cells Space Application thing from Arabia, an experiment from Switzerland, the National Centre for Nuclear Research of Poland, some spectroscope experiment by the Indian Institute of Astrophysics and the Institute of Astronomy of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
and

'An experiment will be jointly implemented by the Mars Society's Peru Chapter and Spain Chapter.'

https://www.facebook.com/TheMarsSocietyEspana
https://twitter.com/MarsSocietyPeru

Incentivando la exploración espacial a Marte en Perú.

La Mars Society
es una organización sin ánimo de lucro estadounidense de defensa del espacio impulsada por voluntarios de todo el mundo dedicada a promover la exploración humana y colonización del planeta Marte.

I don't know what the experiment is I will assume its to help in Mars exploration.

A look at previous stuff from Peru
http://peru.marssociety.org/?page_id=594
They considered Experiments in ferrous oxides, isolated missons with plant growth limited communication, very little water, EVA suits and exploration

Station seems to have the robot arm like CanadaArm or the Japan HTV

Tianzhou-2 docks with China's space station module
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1398751732579110912

The trials and triumphs of our missions to Mars
https://thenextweb.com/news/trials-triu … yndication

China succeeds in first cargo mission to new space station
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/chin … e-station/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-06-01 12:21:17)

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#12 2021-06-01 19:16:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

News articles have indicating that china has cloned there own version of a starship already, so its possible....

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#13 2021-06-25 04:54:34

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

China unveils ambitious 'roadmap of human Mars exploration'
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/china … d=78463069


"We are willing to join hands with our counterparts and partners all over the world, to realize the dream of mankind going to deep space and walking on Mars," he said.

The Mars Society
https://twitter.com/TheMarsSociety/stat … 8291436544
# China plans to send its first crewed mission to # Mars in 2033 cnbc . com

Musk Tweets!
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1403960366703337476
Esoteric meme of the day

"How does China's satellite chain help taikonauts make home calls?"
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-06-23/H … index.html

China's self-developed Tianlian relay satellites can help Chinese astronauts, or taikonauts, connect with Earth seamlessly as well as keep them safe during the journey.
The taikonauts in China's space station can contact the control center on Earth or their families freely anytime thanks to China's advances in satellite systems.
China currently operates five data-tracking relay satellites including four Tianlian I and a Tianlian II-01 working as data transmission stops, with the ability to cover satellites and manned spacecraft in medium and low Earth orbits.


Shenzhou-12 crew aboard Tianhe space station module had a chat with Xi Jinping early today. Crew used footholds to remain stationary.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1407596080649453569

Now, there are in total 10 astronauts in space at # ISS Space_Station and #Tiangong TGSpaceStation
. Launched by Russian Soyuz MS-18, China’s Shenzhou 12 and US’s SpaceX dragon.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 8090177536

'Le Chinarm'
https://twitter.com/Kaynouky/status/1406220956834713602

Now the more striking news is that plans of the long talked-about CZ-9 has changed completely again! Due to the emergence of CZ-5DY & what looks like the Chinese taking note of what 2 US billionaires are doing, they have given up the old CZ-9 plans & engines for a clean sheet.
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/stat … 1441175556

The Chinese Announced They Will Put First Humans On Mars Before 2033 ???
https://www.unilad.co.uk/technology/chi … fore-2033/

"China in Space: Impact on China-US Competition"
https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/china-i … mpetition/

"China's new Mars rover could accelerate a growing space race"
https://astronomy.com/news/2021/05/chin … space-race
On May 14, a six-wheeled rover the size of a small car plunged into Mars’ thin atmosphere, braking with a series of parachutes and retro-rockets before touching down in a picture-perfect landing. After a 10-month journey through space, the China-built robot could finally stretch out its solar panels and send an all-clear signal back to Earth. As the news reached the Beijing Aerospace Control Center in the pre-dawn hours, bleary-eyed engineers erupted in thunderous applause.
The Mars-bound Tianwen-1 spacecraft launched back in July 2020 carrying both a Mars rover and orbiter. It reached the Red Planet on February 10, about a week before NASA's Perseverance rover arrived. Ever since, the Chinese orbiter has been circling Mars, scouting out the best landing site for the rover to carry out its mission.

Tianwen-1 Infographic
https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/statu … 85/photo/1

"Astronauts record first 24 hours in space"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57577880

New footage released on Wednesday also showed the three men - Nie Haisheng, Liu Boming and Tang Hongbo - having meals as boxes floated around them.
The video documented their first 24 hours aboard the Tianhe module, where they will stay for three months.
It is China's first crewed space mission in nearly five years, and will be its longest to date.

China builds Mars simulation in similar desert landscape to prepare for exploration
https://nypost.com/2021/06/15/china-bui … landscape/

The town is known as China’s “Mars Camp” due to its eerily eroded desert landscape that resembles the surface of the red planet. The red rock area of the Qaidam basin in western Qinghai has been dubbed “the most Martian place on Earth” as experts claimed that the landscape, rocks, sand, and even the temperatures are similar to those on the Red Planet.
The simulation camp was launched in the town in 2019 with a base designed as a place for space enthusiasts and professionals to get a better understanding of Mars with immersive experiences in the simulation environment. Covering 1,734 acres, the “Mars Camp” consists of a tourism center, a Mars community, a simulation base and other facilities.

The Chinese wants to up the ante on the space race with a 'sky ladder' to Mars that can beam humans and cargo up in a capsule
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-wants- … 01342.html

China wants to put the first human on Mars in 2033, according to a new presentation made by Wang Xiaojun
https://gizmodo.com/china-hopes-to-put- … 1847163177

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-06-25 07:38:19)

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#14 2021-06-25 05:54:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,008

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

For Mars_B4_Moon ... thanks for Post #13, with it's many links (with comments) ..

I am planning to follow up about the "sky ladder" on a more up-to-date browser ...

Beaming people and cargo might imply laser delivered energy ...

SearchTerm:Ladder sky ladder

Following up:

This gent appears to be someone who would appear to fit well into the creative-thinking environment of the NewMars forum.

China is not only looking to putting a man on Mars by 2033 - it's also working on the "sky ladder," a delivery system made of carbon nanotubes (strong, miniscule carbon atom filaments) that can beam humans and cargo up to space stations for what it claims will be just 4% of the current cost.

Wang, who leads the state-owned China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology, did not elaborate on the specifics of how this "sky ladder" all the way to Mars will work, but noted that it would be a starting point for future space voyages and transport missions to the red planet.

Xinhua News posted a video earlier this year that modeled how the system could potentially function for journeys to the moon. In the video, a capsule is seen being propelled from Earth to a Chinese space station, then leapfrogging its way to another space station before reaching a lunar landing pad.

If anyone can find the video referenced in the article, I'd be most interested in seeing it.

The potential applications of carbon nanotubes are just ** beginning ** to be imagined, let alone realized.

This gent may have an idea that will bear fruit some day, but whatever it is, it is already stimulating creative thinking in the minds of those who learn of it, and wonder what it might be.

(th)

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#15 2021-06-25 13:04:37

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 6,228

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the Chinese are not seriously interested in establishing a Mars colony?

The Russians and Chinese seem very preoccupied with their lunar ambitions, and this is what they constantly talk about in the news.  Every other space agency and private corporation except for Blue Origin, another American company, is at least a good 10 years behind the power curve when it comes to development of fully reusable orbital launch vehicles, which are mandatory foundational technology for a Mars colony to exist at any scale.  Blue Origin is probably 5 to 7 years behind SpaceX.  Both corporations have reliable LOX/LCH4 engines with lots of testing, but nobody else has anything like that in production and only Raptor has actually flown aboard a launch vehicle, or the upper stage of one, moving under its own power.  SpaceX is fabricating both the booster and upper stage for a fully functional orbital vehicle, and sub-orbital testing continues.  Nobody else is anywhere near that far along.  The Chinese use any success as a propaganda tool, so we'd know about it if they were close, because they would intimate to everyone that they are.

NASA has the only fully tested long duration closed loop life support system in existence, and they have decades of experience with development of long duration life support.  You can't simply steal the blueprints and copy that technology, as the Chinese theft of F-35 design data has proven.  Thorough understanding is required, which only comes from home-grown development and testing.

We know that Russian and Chinese space suit technology is nothing to write home about, either.  They're good basic designs, and I'm not taking anything away from the technical skills of their design engineers, but NASA has gone through more successive generations of space suit technology than both of their space programs have produced over their entire history.  This is the difference between having an entire private industry based around a technology set and having one or a handful of specialty equipment suppliers.  America's space suit programs are not limited by the creativity of the engineers at NASA or some government-run corporation.

When last I checked, the electric propulsion technologies used by Russia and China are fairly primitive, so their ability to launch the "slow boat from LEO" to deliver heavy cargo is likewise limited.

No amount of hand-waving or claims without evidence can dismiss the importance of those technologies or how necessary they are to any long duration exploration or colonization campaign.

One other factor that must be considered is that, much as NASA has become a political organization today (a welfare for program for smart people and a jobs program for politicians to exploit), space exploration is a special interest group within all governments.  Both Russia and China have limits as to what resources they're willing to devote to accomplishing a given space exploration goal.  Russia has largely given up on sending interplanetary probes to Mars because their success rate is very limited.  China has landed a single small rover on Mars decades after the US had accomplished the same goal and behind India.  Let's see how repeatable their success rate is before jumping to conclusions, as well as the longevity of their technology in operation, because those are much better gauges of their commitment to the task.

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#16 2021-06-25 17:45:48

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

The Chinese are sophisticated game players - have you ever heard of "The Art of War"?

If their main space exploration focus was on Mars, the last thing they would do is tell you it was. They would tell you their main focus was the Moon.

I agree that China has a lot of calls on its resources apart from Mars. They are intent on catching up with and surpassing the USA militarily and ensuring they can overcome Taiwan with a huge excess of force. I would accept currently Taiwan ranks a lot higher than Mars. But they think very long term and will see the dangers of allowing Space X/the USA to get control of a whole planet's resources.


kbd512 wrote:

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the Chinese are not seriously interested in establishing a Mars colony?

The Russians and Chinese seem very preoccupied with their lunar ambitions, and this is what they constantly talk about in the news.  Every other space agency and private corporation except for Blue Origin, another American company, is at least a good 10 years behind the power curve when it comes to development of fully reusable orbital launch vehicles, which are mandatory foundational technology for a Mars colony to exist at any scale.  Blue Origin is probably 5 to 7 years behind SpaceX.  Both corporations have reliable LOX/LCH4 engines with lots of testing, but nobody else has anything like that in production and only Raptor has actually flown aboard a launch vehicle, or the upper stage of one, moving under its own power.  SpaceX is fabricating both the booster and upper stage for a fully functional orbital vehicle, and sub-orbital testing continues.  Nobody else is anywhere near that far along.  The Chinese use any success as a propaganda tool, so we'd know about it if they were close, because they would intimate to everyone that they are.

NASA has the only fully tested long duration closed loop life support system in existence, and they have decades of experience with development of long duration life support.  You can't simply steal the blueprints and copy that technology, as the Chinese theft of F-35 design data has proven.  Thorough understanding is required, which only comes from home-grown development and testing.

We know that Russian and Chinese space suit technology is nothing to write home about, either.  They're good basic designs, and I'm not taking anything away from the technical skills of their design engineers, but NASA has gone through more successive generations of space suit technology than both of their space programs have produced over their entire history.  This is the difference between having an entire private industry based around a technology set and having one or a handful of specialty equipment suppliers.  America's space suit programs are not limited by the creativity of the engineers at NASA or some government-run corporation.

When last I checked, the electric propulsion technologies used by Russia and China are fairly primitive, so their ability to launch the "slow boat from LEO" to deliver heavy cargo is likewise limited.

No amount of hand-waving or claims without evidence can dismiss the importance of those technologies or how necessary they are to any long duration exploration or colonization campaign.

One other factor that must be considered is that, much as NASA has become a political organization today (a welfare for program for smart people and a jobs program for politicians to exploit), space exploration is a special interest group within all governments.  Both Russia and China have limits as to what resources they're willing to devote to accomplishing a given space exploration goal.  Russia has largely given up on sending interplanetary probes to Mars because their success rate is very limited.  China has landed a single small rover on Mars decades after the US had accomplished the same goal and behind India.  Let's see how repeatable their success rate is before jumping to conclusions, as well as the longevity of their technology in operation, because those are much better gauges of their commitment to the task.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#17 2021-06-26 19:43:25

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 6,228

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Louis,

China is rapidly becoming an old folks home.  Old men frequently con young men into fighting in wars to satisfy their need to feel more important than most of them ever will be, in the grand scheme of things, but they tend to practice a lot more art than war.  If the Chinese think they're going to surpass America militarily, then something tells me that their leadership flunked the test over Chapter 2 of that book, or they're going to stupidly spend themselves into oblivion the way we have.  Either way, they're not a serious military threat, except to their neighbors.  The Vietnamese swiftly handed their rear ends to them when the Chinese military tried to invade Viet Nam at the tail end of the Viet Nam War.  Apart from continual provocations, the Chinese haven't made that same mistake since, although I doubt there's anyone left in the Vietnamese military who knows anything about fighting wars.

Anyway, China is a military threat to America in roughly the same way that an ant colony is a threat to an elephant.  If the elephant simply lies down and stops moving, then eventually the ants will eat the elephant, but if the elephant ever decides to simply roll over, it'll wipe out the entire ant colony.

There's nothing that SpaceX or America would even attempt to do to prevent the Chinese from going to other places in the solar system, because that is not their mandate.  By the time the Chinese catch up with SpaceX, the western world could have transport ships in interplanetary space with roughly the same tonnage as America's ocean going naval vessels.  The Chinese would be well advised to leave those alone if they don't want Space Force to go after them.

I respect our adversaries, but attributing all these nonexistent capabilities to them is only feeding into the Military Industrial Complex.  We've spent enough money on our military.  If other nations feel the need to expand their military forces to protect themselves from the Russians or Chinese, then that's their decision to make.  We've wasted enough time and effort warning them of the potential dangers.  It's time to put our tax money into other potentially profitable enterprises, such as colonizing the moon and Mars.

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#18 2021-09-15 06:59:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

China's astronauts make spacewalk to upgrade robotic arm
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chin … m_999.html

Drones to connect Mars colonies at 3,800mph
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chin … -8twl3jgmv

Orbiter’s impromptu from its deep space mission ? Chinese Probe Returns to Moon From Deep Space, for Unknown Purpose
https://futurism.com/the-byte/chinese-p … turns-moon

China's Shenzhou 12 Astronauts Send Back Stunning Images of Earth
https://www.space.com/china-shenzhou-12 … rth-photos

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#19 2021-11-28 14:31:02

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

There are also reports China might be trying get a robotic Mars Sample Return going much like it has done with the Moon Robver, the samples take from the Mars surface and returned to Earth

Chinese crewed moon landing possible by 2030, says senior space figure

https://spacenews.com/chinese-crewed-mo … ce-figure/

News on Chinese woman spacewalk

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/wa … 13-2297946

China's Tianwen 1 Mars orbiter changes orbit to begin planetary survey

https://www.space.com/china-tianwen-1-m … net-survey

The original plan for Tianwen 1's science phase involved an orbit with a period of 7 hours and 48 minutes. However, as Zhurong continues to function well beyond its three-month primary mission, the mission's scientists devised the new orbit to both allow Tianwen 1 to achieve its objective of conducting a global survey of Mars and still assist with relaying data from Zhurong to Earth.

Tianwen 1 carries seven science payloads, including medium- and high-resolution cameras for both mapping large areas of Mars and returning sharper, more focused images of the planet's surface. The Mars Orbiter Subsurface Investigation Radar (MOSIR), a sounding radar, will meanwhile scout for water ice beneath the surface. Targets of particular interest include impact craters, volcanoes and canyons.

Tianwen 1 also carries a mineralogical spectrometer for detailing surface composition, particle analyzers for atmospheric studies and a magnetometer. Its orbit passes over the poles meaning that, over time as the spacecraft orbits and the planet rotates, Tianwen 1 will be able to survey the entire surface of the planet.

The spacecraft has a design lifetime of two (Earth) years, but Tianwen 1 could be set for extended activity. "At the end of next year when the orbiter's design lifetime comes to an end, we'll design new missions based on the specific conditions of the orbiter, and will then lower its orbit ... for closer observation of Mars and obtain more exploratory data," Zhu Xinbo, deputy chief designer of the orbiter, told CCTV.

The data from Tianwen 1 will also be used for informing and planning future Mars missions, including an ambitious Chinese Mars sample return attempt that could launch as soon as 2028.

Zhurong meanwhile is continuing its journey south from its landing platform, and has covered a total of 4,111 feet (1,253 meters), meaning the roughly 530-pound (240 kilograms) solar-powered vehicle has covered 233 feet (71 meters) since resuming activity after the recent Mars communication blackout caused by a solar conjunction.

Zhurong is now approaching a sentiment-filled trough after making a close approach to a small dune, according to a new route map released by the China National Space Administration (CNSA).

On Sunday (Nov. 7) ESA's Mars Express made its first attempt to receive data from Zhurong and then retransmit the information to Earth as part of a set of five such tests with Zhurong. A technical review session was set for Wednesday (Nov. 10) to assess the performance of the first data transmission trial.


China is planning a complex Mars sample return mission
https://spacenews.com/china-is-planning … n-mission/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-11-29 06:24:17)

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#20 2021-12-17 14:44:51

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Looks like Chinese are launch something big in year 2026, is it the Moon or Mars, anyone want to do the math? Looks like 140 t launched into LEO

They also seem to have some senior chief industry scientist talking about a 30-ton spacecraft to Mars or the Moon?

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ei4y1Z7Ag/
This seems to be a clip from official state media so timeframe may have been publicly announced.

They also show animation of a space station, the Moon and the planet Mars. I assume they are planning a manned mission, that's why they are talking about something as big as a Saturn-V launch or maybe close to the size of 'Starship'. IF they do decide on manned flight and do go for Mars it would be risky as they don't have the experiences of long duration flight like the United states and Russia have done, however maybe they are willing to take that risk and they want to be wrote into history as the first on Mars?
A simple way to search for China's news on space exploation is if you put the characters 'Fire' 火 plus 'Planet' 星 into their social media sites or even facebook or youtube or twitter you will get a lot of hits on previous news items, for example. https://twitter.com/Anthony01375841/sta … 6668300298 However because the character means 'Mars' and it is used across Asia you might also get hits for folklore myths or links to Korea or Vietnamese or Japanese sites like mainichi news or excite.co.jp
Perhaps whatever Chinese are doing in space they will go alone. I think from posts in other threads it could also be considered that unofficially the Chinese might even get help in joint payloads from other agency such as The ESA/Roscosmos while NASA is legally barred from working with China in space...would SpaceX fall under the same Rules/Laws as NASA?
In the articles they talk of a dream of manned landings, a dream of exploring the Moon and talk about exploration of the Moon and a Mars probe.

you tube mirror
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLzXirs-vs
again a pic of both the Moon and Mars
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/139476350
article
https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2021-12-10/d … 6018.shtml

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-12-17 15:19:32)

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#21 2021-12-17 19:58:09

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

It would be a big stink eye on the US if china did even best space x delivery of a crew to the moon as then no one would ever believe that the US made it to the moon....
China to mars is a huge step for that nation one which could be closer to possible with the help of a orbital station could they even have enough life support to land a crew. The they must have a capability on the surface and for its return home.

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#22 2022-01-01 12:14:30

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Some photos taken by throw-away Mars cameras plus one from Zhurong rover

rough translator software gives

'To mark the New Year's Day in 2022 the Chinese Space Administration released a set of pictures transmitted from distant Mars-Cam by the Tianwen-1'

http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n6758823/n675883 … ntent.html

Station live channel?
https://weibo.com/l/wblive/p/show/1022: … 0412605607

第一视角直播从空间站看地球
First perspective broadcasts the earth live from the station

China Mars Orbiter, Rover: New Imagery
https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-mars … w-imagery/

27 T into LTO
https://twitter.com/AngelaOCISLY/status … 0076918784

Seems like China is offering meteorological satellite services to 121 countries, regions
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 7814660096


China space programme: 4 key missions in 2022 include finishing core of space station, sea rocket launches
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science … shing-core

Approved THREE more missions to the moon: Chang'e 6, 7 and 8 will launch to the lunar south pole
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech … ecade.html

The Chinese released new Mars images on New Year's Day
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272 … -years-day

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-01-01 20:46:31)

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#23 2022-01-01 14:36:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

What we are getting from the Chinese mars rover is via listening mode as they did not have the means to communicate otherwise.

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#24 2022-03-27 11:05:03

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

Tianwen1 Zhurong Mars Rover selfies BEFORE (5/19/2021) and AFTER (1/22/2022). The panels started to collect dusts, but still good enough for power demands.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 8249886720

Mars surface, by Tianwen1 orbiter
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/YrsQV1mkaBwFrSyPMRghYw

China releases images of Martian dust taken by Tianwen-1 orbiter
https://www.marsdaily.com/reports/China … r_999.html

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#25 2022-03-29 06:22:10

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,218

Re: Could China beat Space X to Mars?

My own estimate for the first human footprints on Mars would be: 2100.  No one alive here now will live to see it.

This is roughly how long I think it will take to recover from an imminent great depression stemming from fossil fuel depletion and declining working age population.  The question of when humans can first reach Mars, is basically a question of how long it will take to rebuild the energetic basis of our economy.  I think it will take many decades to replace the chemical energy base with a nuclear energy base.  It will take many decades to reverse demographic decline.  So I think 2100 is probably about right.  The other answer that I dread to give would be never at all.  I would like to think that we can overcome the disaster that is about to hit us, even if we have to rebuild on a resource base that is depleted.  I just don't think anyone here will be alive when we finally regain Space faring capabilities.  I would be happy to be wrong.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-03-29 06:22:29)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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