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#1676 2021-10-09 21:05:09

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

Last option is to send the attachments content in the email body, its self as part of the text of the message instead and have GW bring it back in if the drop box does not work.

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#1677 2021-10-09 22:18:39

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1676 and files transfer challenge ...

Thanks for your additional (excellent) suggestion ... What is important in this situation is the actual text of the documents!

The professional formatting is a necessity for ** applying ** for a job, but in this case, we are supporting GW Johnson in his initiative to offer a proposal for "engineering" landers on Mars in 2025.  However, the ultimate solution is to simply send a USB stick by USPS.  The package would be there in a few days at most.  A text version sent via email would be a temporary solution.

I just checked the Portal, and found nothing there.  Hopefully we'll hear one way or the other sometime tomorrow.

***

We have two Texas residents active in the group ...

I just watched one of the most interesting and engaging football games I've seen, and I've seen a lot of them.

Texas A&M just beat Alabama by a field goal in the last one second of a hard fought game.

I would imagine that delayed feed of sports events will be an important part of the entertainment experience for space travelers away from Earth, whether they are on Mars or somewhere else.  The modern American football stadium, with thousands of roaring fans and intense electronic scrutiny is unlikely to be replicated off-Earth any time soon.

(th)

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#1678 2021-10-10 06:19:23

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Post Repair Initiative

We've turned a page in the display of this topic, so I'll start an new post for this update ...

Completed Sequence for ID: 20000

Total Command Lines found: 25
Total input Lines in script: 87

  Number of ID's processed: 1001

Starting Number: 19000

Last Number of Run: 20000

Summary for Web Automation Report for 10-10-2021 at 08:13:06
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:27

Total time of Processing: 07:35:22

Statistics will be updated later today.

A run to 21000 will begin shortly.

We have reached a mini-milestone ... 20,000 of 80,000 means 1/4th done with scans.

Update at 18:29 local time:

Completed Sequence for ID: 21198

Starting Sequence for ID: 21199
Starting Sequence for ID: 21199

Total Command Lines found: 25
Total input Lines in script: 87

  Number of ID's processed: 1199

Starting Number: 20000

Last Number of Run: 30000

Summary for Web Automation Report for 10-10-2021 at 18:14:31
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:29

Total time of Processing: 09:36:41

I set up the run incorrectly so stopped it after it had reached the planned objective.

Statistics will be posted shortly.

(th)

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#1679 2021-10-10 12:13:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut, RobertDyck and kbd512 ...

I heard from GW Johnson via a private email account today.

The message was dated 3 PM yesterday.

He confirmed that the DropBox account created by Mrs. Johnson is working and that he can log into it.

It is possible for Mrs. Johnson to set up an account for NewMars, so that is a possible way to deliver the files.

However, I am increasingly leaning toward the simple option of making a USB stick with the files and sending it via USPS.

If we have to use Pony Express, so be it!

I have a spare USB stick suitable for the purpose, and am standing by to find out if it is needed.

(th)

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#1680 2021-10-10 12:45:48

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

Have had no response to the email attempts to debug the email issue.

Took time to reset bans for 10901 to 11000 user id's

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#1681 2021-10-10 13:33:27

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1680

Thanks for the update regarding your attempts to send email to GW Johnson ....

Can I confirm you sent a separate email without the attachments?  That is important, because without a separate email, GW Johnson has no way to know you made the attempt.  The Google Nanny will confiscate any transmission that contains the suspect files.

***
Thanks for getting back into the Finishing process!

At 100 per day, you'll have those little critters all polished and ready before the end of the year!

I think chances are reasonably good I'll be able to complete the Posts Repair by then as well.

The scanning process is going smoothly, at 2000 per day these days.

The coding to create a new function to handle actual edits is coming along.

It's not a high priority with everything else that's going on.

My relative in Arizona is continuing to think about the fresh water for Phoenix idea.  He's done research on the issue, and discovered previous work that was either considered or actually started, although so far nothing has shown up at the scale I am selling.

***
Have you noticed Void's latest invention?  I have no idea what he's talking about (based upon the many words he's written) but I'm hoping he will soon post one of his high quality drawings to show us what a liquid airlock for Mars might look like.

There would be (or at least ** could ** be) many advantages to such a system, if it is ** real **.

A Mars resident would travel through a water filled tunnel to clean the EVA suit (a) and (b) to transition from Mars atmosphere to Habitat atmosphere.  How that would actually ** work ** is up to Void to clarify.

Hopefully we'll see something soon.

***
RobertDyck is continuing to build his Large Ship concept, occasional post by occasional post.

***
OF1939 has been away from his 17 Person Expedition topic for a while, but hopefully there will be new posts there soon.

***
I am looking forward to your continued development of the 1 foot scrape of Mars regolith to make refueling supplies for a Starship.

The posts you gave us recently show human operated equipment.  Those machines need to be adapted for the AI controlled environment that is needed to build up fuel supplies before a ship lands.

The fuel and oxidizer need to be ready for loading into the Starship immediately upon landing, if immediate exit from Mars is needed for some reason.

(th)

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#1682 2021-10-10 13:46:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

sent one forward with no attachments, one with the original and then one with converted to pdf attachments to see what is the issue.

Void idea is sort of similar to a sink trap in that the internal pressure is held back by a water weight value in the s of the trap.

The water I posted an article in technology and as noted it pricey.

I finished the determination of the square area to dig up for the water value and nailed the levels of co2 to supply to the sabatier reactor. Have posted thoughts on the soil digger processing for the water and shelter for it when idle. Time line from landing means being fueled up with excess by sol 490 out of the mars 500 sol mission duration. With energy supply being the key to success for all aspects.

This work will tie into the oldfart1939 mission topic.

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#1683 2021-10-10 16:26:08

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1682

Thank you for sending the plain email as insurance!  Hopefully it will have arrived, even though (as I expect) the transmissions with attachments will fail.

***
Re void's idea .... thank you for the interesting idea of similar functionality .... a basement flood valve is another example that ** your ** example brought to mind.  When a flood valve is installed, a ball will lift and plug the opening to the house if the sewer backs up.

***
Regarding your (important) work on the fuel/oxidizer manufacturing system.

Please remember Dr. Zubrin's original plan ... you want to have your fuel and oxidizer already stored ** before ** you land your first crew.  There is no reason to depart from that wise plan.

Your system of extraction of water from the regolith can certainly be performed by robotic equipment. Just adjust your vision to eliminate human operators and your plan will be ready for serious consideration.

You'll want some help preparing the document for publication, and help is (potentially) available from existing forum members.

Please add some labels to help us follow your reasoning.

In recent posts, you have shown Mega tons of product, but I see no way to tie those numbers to the Starship you are wanting to refuel.

Multiple ship loads of equipment will have to be landed to create your proposed manufacturing facility.

You can get an idea of what your plan needs by re-reading Dr. Zubrin's original plan.

No need to re-invent the system.  Just transcribe and update the numbers for the Starship as a customer.

(th)

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#1684 2021-10-10 16:51:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

Post redirected back to the topic

Of course Zubrin's with a much smaller rocket to provide fuel which uses seed hydrogen but its also got non of the issues that the starship has by virtue of its tremendous size in comparison as his lander was 20mt for all pieces with only the MAV leaving.

By using a nuke power source for the unit that gathers the soil and bakes the water from it its computer controlled. All it needs to do is bring the water to the processing sabatier reactor unit where the remaining work is done to make the fuel.

Those are straight from musk's starship page since its design is to get mass out of earths gravity well and nothing else since it arrives with earth landing fuel remaining on orbit and needs all of that same fuel to go any where.

As far as what we need I think that its still in design mode to down select what is sent to mars to make the refueling work.

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#1685 2021-10-10 17:28:37

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1684

Thanks for the reminder that Dr. Zubrin's plan included bring Hydrogen along!  I should have remembered that.

Your plan is (obviously) much more ambitious, and I am looking forward to seeing you fill in the details over the weeks ahead.

If we can persuade RobertDyck to offer an early (starter) version of his Large Ship concept so it can fly by 2024, then the flotilla would arrive with four Starships.  One can be used for landings and return to orbit, while the others remain ready for the return flight, and for emergency use if the first ship fails to return for some reason.

If the mission is well planned, there would be fuel in the flotilla to return without anything needed from Mars.

If the refueling supplies have been put in place before the human mission arrives, then the Starship for Ship-to-Shore duty would have enough fuel to return to orbit immediately upon landing, if a rapid return is needed for some reason.

***
Here is a copy of current statistics:

Inventory of Todo Items NewMars Posts Repair Initiative

2021/10/10 20001-21000 Admins 0 Bandits 2082
2021/10/10 19001-20000 Admins 0 Bandits 2125
2021/10/09 18001-19000 Admins 44 Bandits 2158
2021/10/09 17001-18000 Admins 90 Bandits 1987
2021/10/08 16001-17000 Admins 81 Bandits 2056
2021/10/08 15001-16000 Admins  70 Bandits 2199
2021/10/07 14000-15000 Admins 102 Bandits 1976
2021/10/06 13000-14000 Admins 183 Bandits 1725
2021/10/06 12001-13000 Admins 253 Bandits 1473
2021/10/05 11001-12000 Admins 211 Bandits 1208
2021/10/05 10001-11000 Admins 167 Bandits 765
2021/10/04 09001-10000 Admins 142 Bandits 373
2021/10/03 08001-09000 Admins 57 Bandits 434
2021/10/02 07001-08000 Admins 130 Bandits 571
2021/10/01 06001-07000 Admins 75 Bandits 578
2021/09/30 05001-06000 Admins 78 Bandits 595
2021/09/29 04001-05000 Admins 53 Bandits 509
2021/09/27 03001-04000 Admins 29 Bandits 858
2021/09/26 02001-03000 Admins 15 Bandits 622
2021/09/25 01001-02000 Admins 79 Bandits 388
2021/09/22 00101-01000 Admins 103 Bandits 114
2021/09/21 00001-00100 Admins 000 post_uid 21

Please note the effect of your (temporary) demotion of Josh Cryer to Moderator.

All of a sudden, your workload drops to zero.  Bravo!

I can adjust the WBA script to visit the Admin posts in the scans already completed, so all that work you would have had has magically vanished.

***
On the subject of the TestID's....

I ** think ** you might have enough computer horsepower to run the software that kbd512 found.

The key is whether you have access to a company email ID, and permission to use it to download the software that kbd512 found.

He showed us that he had perfected the scripts needed to perform the TestID finish operation, so perhaps he would be willing to let you have a copy of his script.  It is possible he already published the script.  You'd have to go back to those posts to be sure.

The posts were in Housekeeping, the Author was kbd512, and the keyword TestID should bring them up

(th)

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#1686 2021-10-10 17:29:47

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,120

Re: Housekeeping

tahanson43206,

I did already publish the script.

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#1687 2021-10-10 17:38:05

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For kbd512 re #1686

Thanks for the confirmation! 

SpaceNut, please see if you can obtain access to a company email account to download the free trial version of the software.

You'll need that because the company refuses to accept applications from free email providers such as Google, Yahoo and many others.

***
For Lander team ....

There was no news from GW Johnson on the Portal this evening.

I was out shopping today, and picked up a mailer for a USB stick.

If we do not hear from Dr. Johnson by noon tomorrow, I'll prepare a USB stick and mail it to Texas.

We do not need further delays caused by a mis-programmed Google AI ...

(th)

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#1688 2021-10-10 18:42:54

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,120

Re: Housekeeping

tahanson43206,

How exactly are we being "defeated" by a poorly programmed piece of Google software, to the point that we're resorting to sending USB sticks to each other through USPS?

Something seems basically wrong with that.

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#1689 2021-10-10 18:51:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

I am still awaiting a response to the recent version of sending of the content as I believe that its configured to not allow attachments. But I was able to send mine from my yahoo account to gw with no issues a few weeks prior.

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#1690 2021-10-10 19:24:59

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1689

Thanks for the update!  And thanks again for making multiple attempts to send the files.

The issue is NOT your files << grin >> .... the issue is the files created and sent by RobertDyck to GW Johnson.  You and I and kbd512 have all received the files with no problem.  It is ** only ** the email account of GW Johnson that cannot receive them.

For kbd512 ... your question is a good one! All I can say is that RobertDyck warned us we might have problems.

***
I've prepared the mailing package for a USB stick if we don't hear anything from GW Johnson by noon Monday.

(th)

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#1691 2021-10-11 05:38:03

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Post Repair Initiative ...

Scan completed through 22,000

Number of ID's processed: 1000

Starting Number: 21001

Last Number of Run: 22000

Summary for Web Automation Report for 10-11-2021 at 07:26:53
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:27

Total time of Processing: 07:31:38

Statistics will be posted later today.

Update at 10:23 local time:

Inventory of Todo Items NewMars Posts Repair Initiative


2021/10/11 21001-22000 Admins 0 Bandits 2036
2021/10/10 20001-21000 Admins 0 Bandits 2082
2021/10/10 19001-20000 Admins 0 Bandits 2125
2021/10/09 18001-19000 Admins 44 Bandits 2158

To see earlier statistics look in previous posts.

A scan to 23000 is in progress.

Completed Sequence for ID: 23000
 
Total Command Lines found: 25
Total input Lines in script: 87

  Number of ID's processed: 1001

Starting Number: 22000

Last Number of Run: 23000

Summary for Web Automation Report for 10-11-2021 at 16:55:59
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:27

Total time of Processing: 07:33:02

Update at 17:19 local time:

Inventory of Todo Items NewMars Posts Repair Initiative

2021/10/11 22001-23000 Admins 0 Bandits 1856
2021/10/11 21001-22000 Admins 0 Bandits 2036
2021/10/10 20001-21000 Admins 0 Bandits 2082
2021/10/10 19001-20000 Admins 0 Bandits 2125

(th)

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#1692 2021-10-11 05:49:03

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For kbd512 re #1688

Your question is a good one, and i let it simmer overnight before attempting a first crack at a guess...

I ** think ** we are seeing an early implementation of AI for sifting files passing through Google.

Certainly ** something ** is interfering with delivery of the files created by Robertdyck to GW Johnson.

My guess is that there is a sequence of bits that exist in the file that match a signature of a virus or other malware.

The experiment of SpaceNut, to render the file in pdf format should have eliminated ** that ** possibility.

However, we do not know if the pdf experiment succeeded.  I'm presuming that GW Johnson would immediately report any successful delivery, and since no such report has arrived, I'm assuming all attempts have failed.

Now, it is clear to all of us that the file is traveling without difficult to all ** other ** destinations.

So, whatever the agency is, it appears to be "working" in the pathway with GW Johnson's email account as the destination.

He is using a "new" computer, that is a replacement for one that failed a few months ago.

We know little about the software on the "new" computer, other than that it is Microsoft Windows, and it ** may ** be running Windows 10.

(th)

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#1693 2021-10-11 08:38:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

Had sent my resume to GW on 8/31/21 so I just tried a separate contact message to see if my email is getting through...

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#1694 2021-10-11 09:00:43

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,741
Website

Re: Housekeeping

Just to let y'all know,  it's not just the files from RobertDyck,  his emails never showed up at all.  I have seen emails from Spacenut and TH. 

As for the resume materials,  I have Spacenut's from some time ago now,  and I have Kbd512's,  if I remember correctly,  via TH or Spacenut.  And I have a temporary resume from TH himself,  leaving only RobertDyck's as completely missing.  TH was working on the "final" version of his. Remember,  these are only to show we are technically-minded folks,  not "ignorant laypeople".  We are not asking for work,  we are asking for technical information. 

The lander proposal exists as draft 9 with a cover letter dated late September,  addressed to Elon Musk at SpaceX.  It can be quickly changed to any date and any addressee we desire.  It has most of the resume materials ready,  that are promised in the letter. 

I have not heard a word from Spacex,  and I have not yet heard anything from Deltion,  Ltd (Canada) about their drill.  I had emailed the two guys at Deltion without reply.  I sent a paper letter by surface mail last week (7th),  expecting delivery by next week (17th or so),  even with the mailed slowed as it is (10 days allowed). 

TH plans to call Deltion (Jim Richard and/or Dale Boucher) on or shortly after the 18th.  Probably best to just confirm delivery,  then ask about what they think. We want to learn if their Destin drill (or any other product) can be made to drill deeper than the current 1 m.  We need 5 to 10 m,  I believe.  Ultimately,  we are looking for stowed and deployed dimensions,  and a mass.  And whether it is an item to be mounted on something,  or is its own rover.

That last might change our proposal a tad.  If the drill is its own rover,  and is small enough,  then we are looking at two small rovers (not just one and a fixed drill) on a low flat powered platform,  without the air bags and petals. 

Depending upon TH's call results,  we might be sending that proposal to Deltion to see if they want us to add them.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1695 2021-10-11 09:23:41

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For GW Johnson re #1694

Thanks for your updates and suggestions for the call if it is necessary.  Hopefully your letter will lead to a contact by the designers of the Destin drill.  However, I'm standing by to make the call per your guidelines.

For all ... in separate correspondence with GW Johnson, I have determined that electronic transmission of the RobertDyck files is not worth attempting beyond the multiple efforts already made.  I'm preparing a USB stick, and will include copies of the project files I've saved on a backup computer.  That USB stick will be sent out this afternoon.  If USPS is closed due to Columbus Day, I'll use UPS.

We need to keep modest momentum going.  We are not dependent upon any one person or organization, but ** do ** need to keep looking for opportunities to reach the right people.

This is a good idea, and it deserves to achieve successful deployment on Mars.  How that happens is unknown, but I am confident it ** can ** happen, because all the trail breaking has been done by the National Agencies who've landed on Mars.

This is a ** social ** problem to be solved, not a technical one.

(th)

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#1696 2021-10-11 12:01:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

Not sure if the recent reply from GW says that he has not gotten any of my recent messages.

edit
check in message received from GW and a reply to check the others which I sent for the different resume's
either the attachments are to large with both or its censoring the email of Roberts address.
waiting for reply at 14:00

18:15
just sent pdf's of each resume separately to see if its a download limit which could be the issue

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#1697 2021-10-11 14:54:46

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1696

Thanks for continuing to follow up on the email experiments!

The USB stick is on it's way by UPS.  The package should arrive on the 13th.

A previous UPS delivery was successful, so I expect the package will arrive intact.

The USB stick included the files from RobertDyck (I opened them on the USB stick to be sure) and a collection of files that pertain to the Lander project.

We have backups on the Portal, my backup system, and on each of the Team Member's machines.

***
As you work on the regolith harvest, please organize your findings so they are easy to understand.

As an example, something like;

Starship methane needed: XXX tons
Starship oxygen needed: XXX tons

Regolith to harvest: xxx tons

CO2 to collect, separate and store: xxx  tons

Water to collect, separate and store: xxx tons

Energy required:

1) methane ... show by stages
2) oxygen ... show by stages

3) cool to liquid form for methane
4) cool to liquid form for oxygen

5) keep cool for two years methane
6) keep cool for two years oxygen

7) energy to operate machinery to scrape regolith
8) Whatever I've missed

The output of all this work should be the size nuclear reactor needed to support the mission.

Other outputs would be the various machines needed ...

1) Material collection and movement
2) CO2 handling
3) CO2 separation
4) Water separation and disposal of unneeded material (? return to scrape site?)

Whatever I've missed.

(th)

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#1698 2021-10-11 20:37:35

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,120

Re: Housekeeping

GW,

I think two small-ish rovers are the way to go on this mission.  Both experiments benefit greatly from a limited degree of mobility.

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#1699 2021-10-11 22:48:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,384

Re: Housekeeping

success on the emails finally
I agree kbd512, that more is better with the size and power levels of the MER sized rovers.

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#1700 2021-10-12 06:47:56

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 8,589

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #1699

Congratulations on "winning" the battle with Google Nanny! 

Re roving drill.... this would match up with your earlier call for the drill to sample more than one location  at a site.

This post is reserved for updates on the Post Repair Initiative.

Completed Sequence for ID: 24000
 
Total Command Lines found: 25
Total input Lines in script: 87

  Number of ID's processed: 1001

Starting Number: 23000

Last Number of Run: 24000

Summary for Web Automation Report for 10-12-2021 at 08:38:50
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:27

Total time of Processing: 07:32:30

Statistics will be reported shortly

Inventory of Todo Items NewMars Posts Repair Initiative

2021/10/12 23001-24000 Admins 0 Bandits 2082
2021/10/11 22001-23000 Admins 0 Bandits 1856
2021/10/11 21001-22000 Admins 0 Bandits 2036
2021/10/10 20001-21000 Admins 0 Bandits 2082

Update at 16:11 local time .... the scan to 25,000 is nearly finished.

Special item for SpaceNut ....

I am inspired by your vision of harvesting regolith ... What do you think of a topic dedicated to operating at that level?

I'm thinking of something like Mars Heavy Industries, but don't know where it would best fit.

It would concentrate on collecting knowledge about heavy industry in general, but specifically how it would be ported to Mars.

This would be entirely supported by nuclear fission in the near term, and by nuclear fusion when it is available.

Wispy solar panels would NOT be a part of this topic.

(th)

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