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#3051 2023-08-03 07:15:56

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

As an experiment, with 0% packet loss in effect, I'll try the original post as saved in external storage ...

answer ... no ... there was something about the original post that FluxBB cannot abide.

The original series about a possible text based back up and restore system begins here:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 68#p212068

(th)

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#3052 2023-08-03 07:20:27

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 9,774

Re: Housekeeping

thanks to everyone for their work in getting newmars forums back and running

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#3053 2023-08-03 07:23:20

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For Mars_B4_Moon .... thanks for returning after the "unplanned maintenance"

In case you missed the details, (that is certainly possible), the hardware crash revealed that the FluxBB software could not restart.  It turned out that some software needed by the package had been upgraded for the main web site, and the ancient FluxBB could not run.  An older support package was installed, and the site is back up.  However, long range plans are to upgrade everything to current standards.

PS .... you first joined the forum many years ago.  Your email address from that time no longer works.  Please update the email address in your profile.  There are two reasons to do that.  First, I was unable to notify you when the web site went down. Second, if you need to change our password, the mechanism depends upon your email address being current.

You can also contact the NewMarsMember email address if all else fails.

(th)

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#3054 2023-08-03 14:40:19

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

Nice to see NewMars back after another bounce.

The local time I found NewMars back online is 16:39

Congratulations to the Mars Society staff who corrected whatever the problem was!

(th)

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#3055 2023-08-05 07:41:21

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

20230805 More Notes on Possible Text Backup and Restore plan for NewMars forum

During the recent NewMars outage, kdb512 offered some suggestions for how a text based backup system might work.

In a preliminary review of how the existing Web Automation program might be adapted for this purpose, I made some notes while doing a test run with the Housekeeping topic.

The numbers of the topic, the User ID, and the posts themselves are not useful, because new numbers will be generated as the topic is restored to an empty database.

A prerequisite for success is to restore the User table first.

Side note:  if a post contains a link to another post in the original database, then that link will fail to pull up the original post, because the link contains numbers that were correct for the original database.

It is quite common for posts in the NewMars forum to link to other posts.

The text based backup system cannot replicate everything that a full MySQL backup would replicate.

The only prerequisite table I have found so far is the User Table, and even that could be rebuilt by scanning the saved text for User ID's, and adding them to a User's table in the empty database.

Let us consider how a text based backup system might work, using Topic ! as the focus.

To be continued....

(th)

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#3056 2023-08-05 08:09:00

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

This post may be too long, but I'll give it a try .... It covers what appears to be a strategy for collecting topics in a way that would permit text based reconstruction of a database using topics as the anchor.

The post was too long ... it caused Apache Internal Server Error ...
<snip>
*** End select all from web page generated for Topic 1

It appears (at first glance) as though the needed data could be pulled from this text, in order to reconstruct the topic in a new environment.

***
Topic 1222 has three pages

This topic would require a way to advance from one page to the next

It appears that a mouse click on the Next button at the bottom of the web page would work.

In addition, the Next button is available at the top of the page, at a variable distance to right of "Pages:"

The "Next" text appears to right of "Pages" until the last page is shown. At that point Next is NOT displayed.

***
My preliminary assessment is that a procedure to capture web pages for each topic would be practical.

The output could be massaged later for input to a program to load a database.

(th)

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#3057 2023-08-05 08:16:49

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

According to FluxBB, there are 8219 topics in the NewMars database as of 2023/08/05.

However, the most recent topic created by Void "Genetics" has an ID of 10541.  That means there are 2322 topics that did not survive.

Still, 8219 topics would (presumably) capture the entire database in a text based form that could be used to reconstruct the database.

it would take a while to capture all those topics.

The first attempt (as I am imagining it today) would consist of a run from Topic # to Topic #+1. 

As a later time, the range of operation might be extended to cover more than one topic in a session.

For completeness, the corresponding numbers for posts are: 212179 latest post ID and FluxBB reports 207964 posts so Missing: 4215

That number matches up with the results of the potholes scan runs.

(th)

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#3058 2023-08-05 14:19:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

I am back and live after making another junk tower function once more as its hard drive have failed in the past that a family member once owned.

The backup from when it crashed back in 2010, I think James Burk does have but on another server from rewinding the log file. Many of the missing posts it would contain from when it failed back in 2005 and again 2008. I think that I am missing somewhere near 10,000 posts from that period of time.

Just another reason to make backups that are not stored on the same sever but that means more money which one would wish is available.

During the outage I saw that the server home page was present, but the WordPress content was not present and the link from that page did not find the sever path as well. After restoration the home page content has completely returned.

Each post is part of a single-entry table that contains each of the attributes this is similar to many excel sheets being assembled with access with a query level output for display as the means to remerge the content from the files to which one can output the realignment as a separate excel would have.

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#3059 2023-08-05 16:07:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

I am not sure but the link Atom active topics feed at the bottom of the forum main page should not open the log.

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#3060 2023-08-05 17:56:08

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut .... what is that Atom feed?  It looks like something that a person might subscribe to?

I don't recall seeing it before.

The content is XML, and it looks (at first glance) like something that might run if opened with a browser.

***
Congratulations on finding a solution to get you back online!

(th)

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#3061 2023-08-07 09:42:50

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

We have restarted the weekly Zoom sessions.

In the absence of an agenda, conversation heads off into every part of the Solar System.

In the process of exercising the procedures to restart the Zooms, I've let agenda fall by the wayside.

However, next week, if the meeting happens, I have a couple of questions to offer:

1) The email subsystem is not working. Can we fix it?
2) All three of us have constructed all or part of backup web sites. How close are these to ready to take data?
3) In the midst of the crisis over the down web site, kbd512 had observations about what is needed to recreate the web site using a text based backup.
I've done some preliminary testing, and it appears that a topic based backup can be created fairly easily, and it appears to have everything needed to restore.
4) What have we learned about what happened to the web site servers?
5) What is the status of MySQL backups?
6) What is going on with Apache Internal Server Error?  I just got it again at 14:20 (or so) local time.

I'd like to see a set of three independent, fully functional web site backups in the next month or two.

Large Ship may be able to restart work, with 3D modeling and (hopefully) animation.  I'd like to see progress on Large Ship at least monthly, and hopefully more frequently.

(th)

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#3062 2023-08-10 14:59:10

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ....

Now that your computer is back online, and assuming ??? it is running Windows 10 ??? I'd be interested in your experience with the little Python program I posted in a new track about the Python language.

With your background, you should be able to install everything needed to run the program.

If you want to experiment with the code, and (I'm assuming you do not have it already) want to make changes in a suitable environment, you can install Visual Studio Code.

When you instruct Visual Studio Code to open orbit12.py, it will ask you if you want it to install the Python extension.

If you say Yes, then the environment will know about the special formating of Python programs.

(th)

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#3063 2023-08-11 20:17:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

I did take a look at the code, and it is interesting.

https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 … eb-server/

https://www.a2hosting.com/blog/starting … rum-phpbb/

https://www.sitepoint.com/build-a-phpbb-forum/

update

the id is the tag which is assigned for the tables

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#3064 2023-08-13 10:14:43

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For study:

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?

What options does this php page support?  The most common parameter is: id=####

Are there other options?

(th)

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#3065 2023-08-13 12:14:10

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re recent research by Void.

If you have time, and if the topic is of interest, please investigate to see if there might be a deposit of geologic hydrogen near you.

If there ** is ** such a deposit, I propose that the value of the deposit should be shared equally among residents of the State, if it is under a State, or with a Region if the deposit is off shore.  We (humans) need to improve our collective income earning structures.  At present, our tools include stock ownership, ownership of pools of stock, and by far the greatest number of humans (in the United States) enjoy the benefits of managed wealth accumulation and distribution.

If a large deposit of valuable material becomes available, the natural tendency would be for an investor group to take the risk of building access capability, while the US or State governments provide oversight and licensing.  I'd like to see the natural flow to be adjusted  somewhat, so the good fortune of an unexpected supply of potential wealth can be distributed to a larger group with immediate effect.

This would be a model for wealth that is waiting to be developed in the Solar System. 

(th)

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#3066 2023-08-13 13:38:35

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

This is for kbd512 ....

Here is a tiny part of the viewtopic.php file which I am hoping you might install for moderator use as: listtopic.php

I asked ChatGPT (paid version 4) for help, and it turned out it has phpBB saved in it's repository.

blocked by Apache server error ... will save on Dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/eh9nrigw … 4635d&dl=0

It might be possible to install this so anyone can run it.  It does only lookups.

The output is what I need to make a text backup of the entire database, using topics as the framework.

(th)

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#3067 2023-08-13 14:56:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

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#3068 2023-08-14 14:07:24

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #3067

I was hoping you would be inspired by the discovery of geologic hydrogen to see if you have a stash under your home?  All I caught since then was an expression of doubt the supply of naturally produced hydrogen would be profitable. 

When a natural resource is discovered there is normally some interest in seeing if it might become available.  The first response is not (usually) to doubt it would be profitable, before finding out how much of the resource is present. 

In the case of New Hampshire, there may be hydrogen under the State, or nearby off shore.  It is clearly of value in the modern economy.

(th)

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#3069 2023-08-14 14:12:00

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For kbd512...

This is a follow up to our work session on listtopic.php.

ChatGPT4 agreed to attempt to  convert the file to run on FluxBB ... here is it's attempt:

Apache Server Error blocked the file

I'll upload it to Dropbox and put a link here....
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/q8ylwr0h … y3reo&dl=0

(th)

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#3070 2023-08-14 15:35:56

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,603

Re: Housekeeping

tahanson43206,

I can run it tonight to see how far it gets.

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#3071 2023-08-14 17:39:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For kbd512 re #3070

Thanks for noting the new "FluxBB" version of listtopics.php!

ChatGPT4 said it did not know FluxBB 1.5.1 specifically but it offered a generic FluxBB version.  You might have to tweak it slightly.

I also noticed some additional touches that may or may not be needed at the top.

I'm still concerned about SQL injection, so hope that whatever mechanism FluxBB uses to take in parameters from the address bar is well designed to prevent that sort of shenanigan.

It seems to me that the ** only ** place input is taken in by listtopic.php is the ID parameter, and that should only be numeric.

Come to think of it, the existing listview.php file could be used as a test.  I'll try some inappropriate input for ID= and see what happens.

Update:
I tried "id=abcde" and got this:

Info
Bad request. The link you followed is incorrect or outdated.

Go back

I would assume whatever code generated that response is where the forum authors would have implemented sql injection protection.

(th)

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#3072 2023-08-14 19:00:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

The login creates a cookie for the session to make use of for the ability to edit and create posts.

https://www.w3schools.com/php/php_mysql_create.asp

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#3073 2023-08-15 09:58:42

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

GW Johnson just wrote by email that he got caught by the dread Apache Internal Server Error.

Like many of us, GW does not have time to keep up with the posts in this forum, so he (obviously) missed all the previous discussion of this error.

I recognize that no one will read this  message either, but I'm posting it for the record:

When you get the Apache internal Server Error it does NOT mean you are blocked from posting on the forum. 

You can always post ** something **

My strategy has evolved to break up my post into little chunks that Apache can accept.

If you get the Apache Server Error, arrow back to the post where you entered "Submit".

Collect the text of the entire post using Ctrl/A and Ctrl/C.

Now paste that text into your favorite text editor.

Back at the forum, trim text from the bottom of the post and click "Preview".

When you have removed enough text to clear the error, click Submit.

Note where you are in the post. Go back to the text editor and remove the text from top that you were able to post.

Copy the remaining text and try that.

Repeat the process until the entire post is delivered.  I've had to break up a long post into 10 or more segments.

You may have better luck.

Persistence wins the day in this situation.

(th)

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#3074 2023-08-15 17:48:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

It is content plus the handshake that the latest version of windows has for problems. Most dialog handshakes are java based from when the sun version to virtual machine has continued to be an issue.

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#3075 2023-08-15 20:41:38

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,124

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #3076

Thanks for your observations on the history of software running today!

***
For kbd512 ... the local Linux group held it's monthly meeting this evening, and a member with deep experience with Zoom was kind enough to take up my question about how to give you permanent host status.  It turns out there is a "magic" code that I can pull from the profile of the Mars Society newmars Zoom. Once you have that code in your possession, you will be able to upgrade from regular visitor in the Waiting Room to host via the Make Host button.

I am open to sharing that code with others who you might recommend.

The code needs to be kept confidential, of course, which is why I'd like to start with you and make sure we understand the system and how it works.

(th)

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