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#1 2019-10-03 08:45:22

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut ...

Our recent conversation about "Slow Glass" is best captured at the link: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 61#p160461

I am offering this new top level addition to "Life on Mars" for several reasons:

1) It is completely non-partisan, non-religious, non-ethnic, and should be acceptable to everyone

2) It is literally open to every individual who registers with NewMars.Com/Forum.  Specialized education or experience is not required.

3) It has significant potential as a service which would be desired by many if not most people

4) Initial investment (on the part of a supplier) is (relatively) small, and delivery costs (should be) relatively low.

5) While the target customer base would be people living on Mars, it applies to anyone, anywhere

Summary: A high density video camera would be set up at a customer selected site. Images would be delivered to the customer anywhere.

Model:

At present, on Earth in 2019, there exist a large number of web cams which are free and open to the public, for viewing of scenes of interest (or potential interest) by anyone with access to the Internet.

A friend has a computer with four screens which are normally used for work in the design field.  However, when the computer is not being used for its primary purpose, I observe that three of the screens are typically filled with "live" webcams of scenes from around the Earth.

This example, and discussion with SpaceNut and others in recent days, leads me to visualize "Windows" displayed on high density LED screens, of scenes at the home (or other favorite site) of individuals located anywhere on Earth or away from Earth.

In the case of my friend's display, I note that most sites on display have refresh rates no less than 60 seconds, and often 5 minutes.

Unlike with the free public sites, which are often funded by special interests seeking to attract customers, these would be subscription feeds, designed to serve the psychological needs of individuals seeking to maintain a bond with a location on Earth that has special significance.

I am expecting a corporation to be founded in the not-too-distant future, to compete in the media market place for customers who might be interested in this service. 

If the name is not already taken, or copy-written, or in some other way precluded, I expect to see "Slow Glass Corporation", os something very similar.

With this opening post, I am extending an invitation to every current regular contributor on NewMars forum to post a description of the kind of "Slow Glass" scene they would like to see, if/when the service becomes available.

For readers who do not live in Market oriented societies, this is an example of an inquiry for Market Demand. 

in addition, I am extending an invitation to every current Forum registered member.  The kind of scene that each participant describes will be helpful to an entrepreneur(s) who (I devoutly hope) will invest in building an enterprise to address the potential market.

Finally, if there are Forum readers who have not yet registered, here is a topic that literally ANYONE should be able to join, without fear of contradiction by other members, or other unpleasant experiences that sometimes occur on this occasionally rowdy forum.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-10-03 08:48:31)

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#2 2019-10-03 08:52:34

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

Leading off ....

SearchTerm:SlowGlass

A slow glass display from my favorite location would have shown fog this (Earth) morning.  Fog occurs in this latitude in the Northern hemisphere at about this time in the Solar cycle.  It's arrival is (for me at least) always unexpected, and it brings back memories of having to drive commercially in such conditions, when I would much rather have stayed in bed.

On the other hand, the arrival of fog brings memories of quiet scenes in many locations, including smells and sounds of fog horns and sea birds all unseen, and perhaps the soft slap of waves on a shore.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-10-22 06:15:16)

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#3 2019-10-22 06:29:17

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

In the latitude where I live, the leaves of trees are starting to change to fall colors. 

There are a great number of public web cams on Earth today.  In addition (I would imagine) there are numerous private web cams.

Mars residents will (most likely) select streams from those which will be broadcast to Mars as a service. 

Candidates for web cams to be broadcast are many, so I'll list a few and invite others on the forum to contribute to the list.

www.earthcam.com  is a site with multiple feeds

http://obs.astro.ucla.edu/towercam.htm#imagetop  is a site I visit frequently because it is a short distance from the home of a relative.

http://katkam.ca is a site offering a view of English Bay near Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

www.noao.edu/kpno/kpcam/index.shtml  is a site in the mountain region of the American West, showing a view of two sets of observatories

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-10-22 06:30:50)

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#4 2019-10-22 17:29:55

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

This is the real slow version
smoky-mountains-kids-playing-in-leaves.jpg

of course knowing where and when to go is part of the fall-foliage-prediction-map-fallmaps0819.gif

But seeing it in person is lots  better
ap-97100501603___29102343203.jpg?width=705


Soon we will have another season of cold and snow coming and while some love the outdoors play its the cold that they do not adore...
Me I am partial to mountian views from the peaks and valleys in all seasons.

inline-display

imgad?id=CICAgKDHoYfzmwEQARgBMggKegtaQa5tdw

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#5 2019-10-23 04:30:28

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut re #4 ...

Nice! I like the Autumn theme!

https://www.earthcam.com/world/canada/o … =algonquin

https://www.earthcam.com/usa/newjersey/ … easidepark

https://www.earthcam.com/usa/newjersey/ … chighlands

The atlantichighlands web cam has a live feed, with a flag fluttering in a mild breeze.  The cost of delivery of a live feed such as this will be significantly greater than still shots taken every minute or every five minutes, but with intelligent data compression, the cost might be reduced. 

The tradeoff is the number of bits required to identify the pixels that change if the compression mode is to only send pixels that change from one frame to another.   I can imagine an automatic switch that sends the raw image if the compressed version exceeds the original in size.

The economic model might well be to send streams of scenes on Mars back to paying customers on Earth.

(th)

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#6 2019-10-23 17:47:09

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

Even sending the base building in time lasped would be something that some would want, darting about would be dust devils or even a storm....the mars nights would be with moons and stars.

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#7 2019-11-09 11:02:25

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

Amidst the serious discussion underway in other topics, about numbers of starships needed for Mars settlement, and propulsion chemistry, I'd like to invite anyone interested to take a look out my "Slow Glass" "window" in my hab in Sagan City (2018).

To my amazement, a Blue Jay showed up in the view.  It may be on it's way South, but it may have stopped in because it saw squirrels munching on peanuts.  It took a break at the water bowl (heated now that freezing weather has arrived).

There are still some leaves on the trees, but they are definitely looking raggedy.

A relative and I've been discussing wildlife in our respective locations.

He reported having to trap a raccoon which had (cleverly in my opinion) climbed up the stone chimney and crept under the roof overhang to spend the night.

I had reported missing the ants, which are a feature of life in the 90+ year old house where I live.  Each little worker is (to my way of thinking) a marvel of nanotechnology on full display.  During the warmer seasons, when pulses of workers find their way into crevasses that (obviously) exist, some make there way (unwisely) into view of my ant capture equipment. 

Wisdom may not be the appropriate property to assign to an ant, but a collective of ants often shows remarkable "intelligence" in the art of survival.

Ants are unlikely to be present on Mars during early years, but there may be a way in which they and other insects turn out to be important for a healthy biological infrastructure.

In any case, there are no ants visible in my "Slow Glass" display at this time of the Earth year.

(th)

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#8 2019-11-12 09:54:49

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

Rarely a day (on Earth) goes by that I don't think about what life would be like living on Mars.

The Slow Glass display in my plot in Sagan City (2018) would be showing snow on the ground.

Those who grew up with snow, or with changes of the seasons, may be interested to drop by to see the view.

It would be a good time for serving a hot toddy (whatever that is << grin >>) or just hot coffee (or the artificial equivalent) and reminiscing about adventures on ski slopes or just overland skiing as many do in this part of the globe.

(th)

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#9 2019-11-12 19:21:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

My wife is fond of the winter season and loves snow globes. The other day when the snow was spitting flakes that image came to me so vividly....

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#10 2019-11-13 22:16:44

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

BBWIegX.img?h=170&w=300&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=t&l=f&f=jpg

BBR7TO6.img?h=170&w=300&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=t&l=f&f=jpg

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#11 2019-12-12 17:40:34

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

This is a repost but we can use it instead to see the real mars through it....

Here is a twist on such a technology...but when it comes to mars we will want to make use of daily sunlight just as much as we will artificial.

Punching holes in opaque solar cells turns them transparent

opaque-solar-cell-compared-neutral-colored-transparent-solar-cell-hg.jpg

Existing transparent solar cells tend to have a reddish hue and lower efficiency, but by punching holes that are around 100 um in diameter (comparable in size to a human hair) on crystalline silicon wafers, it allows light through without coloring. The holes are then strategically spaced, so the human eye is unable to "see" the pattern. The best solar cells on the market have an efficiency of over 20 percent. The transparent neutral-colored solar cell that the research team developed demonstrated long-term stability with a high-power conversion efficiency of 12.2 percent. The next step for the team is to scale up the device to 25 cm2 (3.88 in2) and increase the efficiency to 15 percent. Furthermore, most windows are vertically placed, which causes light to hit the windows at a low angle. When hit by low angle light, the electrical current in conventional cells drops nearly 30 percent, while transparent solar cells reduce less than 4 percent--allowing it to utilize solar energy more efficiently.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.joule.2019.11.008
Research Report: "Neutral-Colored Transparent Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaics"

This makes it ideal for solar concentrated light to pass as well as to get the energy from the reflected light. This is a benefit to a natural lighted as the panels now become part of the construction and not extra mass to supply energy.

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#12 2020-02-18 18:49:38

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

tahanson43206 wrote:

This quote is from an industry newsletter ... the research may have implications for Mars applications:

Molecular glass — A revolutionary new material enabling future OLED displays and lighting

Molecular glass, or glassy small molecule organic light-emitting diode materials, is a new class of organic semiconductor materials poised to overcome several performance and manufacturing hurdles currently limiting adoption of OLED technology.

Here is a Google result for OLED:

OLED stands for "organic light-emitting diode" and its cutting edge technology results from many innovations in display monitors, lighting, and more. As the name suggests, OLED technology is the next-generation advance of regular LEDs and LCDs, or liquid crystal displays.Aug 14, 2019

Overview of OLED Technology - ThoughtCo

What I'm thinking about here is the (potential) opportunity to line the walls of underground living and working quarters on Mars, with a complete surrounding able to replicate the visual experience of being anywhere spherical images can be captured.  Google Earth has a feature that allows for spherical images captured by special cameras to be "viewed" by a user.  In the case of the Google Earth display (as I have experienced it) the user operates controls to move the view around the sphere so that the user is able to sequentially view the entire surrounding given the patience to direct the display and wait for data flows.

In the Mars experience i am thinking about, the surrounding visual field would be static, except for such changes as moving clouds or waving grass.

Implementation of this concept would benefit from very inexpensive display technology.

(th)

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#13 2020-12-16 11:21:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

bump
As business opportunities go this could be used in the response to pandemics as well to aid in communications to loved ones as well due to trying to protect them. Which makes this an important multiple use device not just a screen on a wall...

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#14 2021-01-22 17:38:00

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

tahanson43206 wrote:

We may have a lot of days with no activity on the NewMarsForum * gmail.com portal.  Activity there is likely to be directly related to the amount of outreach we attempt, and if you and I are the only ones working, then the amount of outreach is going to be limited to the amount of time we have, and the ideas we come up with for placing the message of opportunity where it might be read.

The Naples Pier webcam is as good a resource as any to provide a substitute report where there is no new activity at the portal.

Today, January 22nd, the air temperature is 52 degrees at 7:41 AM.  The sea is calm.  Workmen are tending to the pier.  A few guests are meandering about on the pier and the beach below.  The sky over the Gulf of Mexico has a sunrise glow.

We will probably have a batch of channels dedicated to receiving a wide variety of feeds from live and not so live cameras mounted all over the world... for those that like trucks maybe a construction zone field such as a bridge repair or replacement ect mining a pit mine...

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#15 2021-01-23 08:40:18

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut re this topic and Recruiting Portal

Because the NewMarsMember * gmail.com account was empty this morning, we have an opportunity to look in on the workers and guests at the Naples Pier.

This morning, at 9:35 AM their time, the temperature is shown as 62 degrees Fahrenheit.  The sea is calm but there is a bit of a breeze, apparently, because some small waves are making their way onshore.  The pier is busy with guests, and I just saw a worker towing a hand cart appliance of some kind toward the two gazebos at the end of the pier.  A small outboard is puttering it's way from left to right ... The scene is facing West over the Gulf of Mexico, so the boat is travelling South to North. 

I just figured out what's going on ... this is the weekend, so the number of visitors is way up.

(th)

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#17 2021-01-24 13:06:42

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut re Post #16

Post #16 first image is from the Naples Pier ... there is no incoming activity on NewMarsMember * gmail.com so ...

The Naples Pier is busy as a weekend and a fine day would call for ... There is a sailboat meandering slowly across the scene in the distance. The temperature reported by the web site is 78 degrees Fahrenheit and the numerous guests are wearing head gear and sun glasses in the bright sun at 14:05 local time.

There is a little bit of wave action but not much, and not enough to inspire the surfers who sometimes visit.

(th)

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#18 2021-01-25 10:59:45

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut ... there was no activity on NewMarsMember * gmail.com

However, it is Monday on Earth, in Florida, and vacationers are abundant at the Naples Pier.

Temperature there is 78 degrees Fahrenheit at Noon local time.  Lots of folks are on the pier, some are on the beach, and a few are even in the water.

Seas are calm ... there are a few clouds over the Gulf of Mexico, but blue skies are overhead, and shadows around the umbrellas are sharp.

A couple of speedboats are in the distance, but (admittedly) not for long

(th)

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#19 2021-01-26 08:15:04

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut ... there was no activity on NewMarsMember * gmail.com

However, it is Tuesday on Earth, in Florida, and there are more birds than people in the 66 degree breezes at 9 AM local time.

The waves are small but abundant. 

There is a tinge of haze out over the Gulf of Mexico, but the sky is blue.

All in all it looks like a pretty nice day!

(th)

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#20 2021-01-26 19:56:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For those that like to watch heavy machinery of a construction zones.
This one is west virginia HWYMAPwLAYERS.jpg

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#21 2021-01-27 03:15:19

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 837

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ...

Our recent conversation about "Slow Glass" is best captured at the link: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 61#p160461

I am offering this new top level addition to "Life on Mars" for several reasons:

Summary: A high density video camera would be set up at a customer selected site. Images would be delivered to the customer anywhere.

Model:

(th)

Sounds like a great idea, or obviously l would want a HD video feed on Mars, preferably in a high interest area, (green areas shown in the ESA orbital image).

(:

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#22 2021-01-27 10:31:39

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For Tmcom re #21

It is good to see your contribution to this topic!  While this topic started out with the idea in mind of providing images and streaming video from Earth to Mars settlers, if I understand your idea correctly, you are proposing a reverse flow of images and streaming video.

I'd like to offer you encouragement to develop your ideas further.  There may well be a market for a video stream from Mars.  Louis is much more knowledgeable about the potential for such a service from Mars to customers on Earth.  I would be quite interested in seeing the idea develop into a business on Earth, if there ** is ** a market.

A lander desgned for commercial delivery of images and streaming video from Mars is certainly possible.  The costs of such a lander are knowable, because of the existing successful lander projects already installed on Mars by various governments.  There may only be one government whose landers survived on Mars today, but in a month (or so) there could be at least two and perhaps three (I'm sure of China but less sure of the Arabian venture).

(th)

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#23 2021-01-27 10:40:22

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut .... there is no new traffic at NewMarsMember * gmail.com, but that means there is no new ** unwanted ** traffic there, for which I am grateful.

I am content to wait as long as necessary for communication from the kind of person we want to bring into the NewMars forum community.

There is now an additional formal exposure opportunity for NewMars recruiting advertisement ... Pending approval(*)l from Dr. Dartnell I have opened a topic on his Knowledge Forum to report on volunteer opportunities at the NewMars forum, starting with two requests from RobertDyck.

(*) A more accurate way of phrasing that is "pending the absence of disapproval" ... I have taken the approach of "Beg for Forgiveness" in this case, since Dr. Dartnell himself is busy with other activities, including his career as a scientist.

So! For today, I can report heavy fog at the Naples Pier!

Temperature is reported as 78 degrees Fahrenheit at 11:38 local time, but the fog is so thick the two buildings at the end of the pier are hidden from view.

Wave action is good ... there is some white froth showing .... A decent number of guests are on the pier and there is one group set up on the sand.

***
Other views showing at this location include:

1) Kitt Peak Observatory ... both webcams are free of ice coating left over from recent storms
2) Panama Canal view of the North end of the Atlantic entrance canal passages ... a freighter is heading South
3) Vancouver Harbor entrance katkam.ca this is a five minute cam ... there is moderate fog and damp streets. 
4) The Naples Pier feed is running an ad

(th)

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#24 2021-01-28 10:49:41

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut ... there were no incoming messages at NewMarsMember * gmail.com

That means there were no UNwanted messages either.  We're batting 100% so far in that department.  I hope it stays that way.

I **am** looking forward to arrival of a spreadsheet from GW Johnson.

With the recent note from RobertDyck that he might be interested in working on a Utility Program to compute thrust for navigation between Earth LEO and Mars, I'm starting to think about what a development project might look like.

With the availability of a guide (in GW Johnson) we just ** might ** be able to put together the kind of online package I'd like to see.

Some time ago, when Yoda showed up briefly on the forum, I was inspired to open an account in Microsoft Azure.  Yoda chose to disappear, and I lost interest in the project, because I have enough else going on.

However, circumstances have changed in favor of the Earth-Mars-Orbit-Calculator idea coming back for another look.

A web site able to support such a calculator is (potentially at least) a possibility ... kbd512 has shown interest in programming, and specifically knowledge of php and MySql, which would be more than sufficient to support a web site with this focus.

I am certain that there must already be web sites (and offline programs) able to perform the tasks I have in mind, but (a) I (for sure) don't know what or where they are and (b) they may well be set up to perform tasks not related to the specific one I have in mind.

I'm interested in seeing a calculator that the Master of one of RobertDyck's ships (or the Loadmaster for one of Void's Ballistic Cargo pods) could use to program the thrust amount, duration and vector for a launch from LEO to Mars with very specific destination characteristics.

RobertDyck has specified an interest in being able to return in two years if the ship misses connection at Mars for some reason, so that would be one of the specifications the program should be able to handle.

On the other hand, on behalf of Void's Loadmaster, I'd like to see a calculation that puts the cargo pod full of seed for farms on Mars on Phobos with a soft landing in the Regolith of a few meters per second, just enough to insure it stays put while the automated retrieval robot maneuvers over to pick it up.

The orbit that can do ** that ** will NOT include the two year safe return option that RobertDyck has specified for his passenger vessel.

For today's Slow Glass report we have:

1) Naples Pier, Tempurature 71 degrees Fahrenheit at 11:43 AM local time.  Waves are vigorous but amazingly, there are no surfers on hand to take advantage of it.  There are a fair number of guests on the pier and on the beach.  The sky over the Gulf is clear and the sky is blue.  Shadows are sharp.

2) Vancouver webcam at 8:40 local time shows the sea/bay calm under moderate cloud cover.  Cars on the bridge are driving with lights on.

3) The Panama Canal middle locks are quiet ... it is the middle of the work day and ships are half-way between the Atlantic and Pacific entrances.

4) Kitt Peak has modest cloud cover to light, with some blue sky showing.  There is still snow on the ground from the last storm.

(th)

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#25 2021-01-29 14:29:28

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

For SpaceNut ... things remain quiet on NewMarsMember * gmail.com

Naples Pier report: 69 degrees Fahrenheit at 15:25 local time ... a sailboat just wafted slowly across the scene
Waves are visible and there appear to be a couple of surfers out, waiting for a "big one"
The pier is moderately populated with guests.
There are a few chairs set up on the beach
***
Panama Canal report: a freighter just completed passage through the middle locks.
***
Kitt Peak ... the snow is melting but there is still some left over from the recent storm

(th)

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