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#1 2018-11-20 13:11:20

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Opening up Tourism for Space

As part of the business plan this is a part of that topic beyond funding and what we will travel on or of its stay..

Not on that list is the opening of those that could afford to pay and or at least want to work off the pricing of the ticket to mars until now.

Tourism was when shuttle and ISS were the extra seats on board shuttle or Soyuz but that stopped a while ago.

That looks like its about to change in the NASA may start selling tourists tickets to space

We know that a higher flight rate drives down prices of all activity with regards to access to space.

Why NASA wants to look at flying tourists to space — a dramatic change for a by-the-book agency

NASA is considering selling seats on the spacecraft that will ferry its astronauts to the International Space Station, offering rides to the public while opening another line of revenue as the agency attempts to broaden its appeal.

On several occasions, Russia has flown wealthy people who paid millions of dollars for the ride to space. And a trio of private companies backed by billionaires is also looking to fly tourists out of the atmosphere.

Of course more destinations will open up more opportunity but its a start.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-amer … 50h1z.html

498904277bdc9a802fce5ce96313c53f5855e47c

operations cost for the station is 3.5 billion and this will offset some of the costs but getting the customers may be also a problem...

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#2 2018-11-24 17:09:00

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Soyuz seats are some where between the 10 to 20 million last time we had word on them.

So what would the new attitude for Nasa account for in a seat price?

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#3 2018-11-24 18:18:19

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

NASA will be beaten by Virgin, Space X and Blue Origin for sure. The era of Space Tourism is upon us - it will be well established by 2025. 

I expect to see lunar tourism bases by 2025 - though Space X may have to hold back a bit to spare NASA's pride.

Going to visit the original Apollo 11 landing site will I think be a great pull for tourists. The Peaks of Eternal Light as well perhaps...


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#4 2018-11-24 18:37:01

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Virgin is only suborbital
Blue origin is currently suborbital but gaining there wings with getting to the next step
Space x is almost there for orbital but will they go further will take time
Nasa will be up and running soon but will they continue without a boat load of cash to its contractors or will the purse strings be closed
Boeing and Lockheed both are striving to replace there old rockets with Boeing having the Starliner while Lockheed is focused elsewhere

The world has other nations that are also fostering commercial space flight and hopefully in time there will be moving people as well

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#5 2018-11-24 19:49:12

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Yes they are only suborbital but they have still taken a lot of bookings. They do achieve weightlessness I think.

I don't think there is any doubt Blue Origin will achieve great things...they just have so much money behind them.

Once the BFR (now Starship) is in place - which I don't think is going to be that long (we are not talking about the F9H - a bad concept really when all is said and done, like the Space Shuttle, however maginificent it looks). This is a scaling up, just the sort of thing I believe Space X can do really well. So I will be surprised if the BRF-Starship isn't up and running and available for human flight by 2022.

SpaceNut wrote:

Virgin is only suborbital
Blue origin is currently suborbital but gaining there wings with getting to the next step
Space x is almost there for orbital but will they go further will take time
Nasa will be up and running soon but will they continue without a boat load of cash to its contractors or will the purse strings be closed
Boeing and Lockheed both are striving to replace there old rockets with Boeing having the Starliner while Lockheed is focused elsewhere

The world has other nations that are also fostering commercial space flight and hopefully in time there will be moving people as well


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#6 2018-11-27 20:57:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

This first step is a tiny step but a big one down the path to getting more people into space.
The next space x flight is schedueled for Jan. 7 date set for first SpaceX unmanned capsule to International Space Station This is the Crew Dragon's commercial flight will be known as Demo-1 or DM-1 only with no one on board.

art-spacex-crew-dragon-docking-iss-hg.jpg

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#7 2020-02-21 21:56:25

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

We are getting closer to a human flight to the ISS onboard the crewed Dragon and soon the Starliner with tourism again awaiting in the wings for hopefully those that are not just Rich.
Space Adventures to fly tourists on Crew Dragon mission

Space Adventures was the only company that was able to book flights to the ISS in the past on the soyuz and now it has the chance on other spare seats for a price.

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#8 2020-02-22 18:39:43

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Annual global tourism is worth something like $9,000 billion.  A truly huge sum! If you could just divert 1% of that into lunar and Mars tourism that would be $90 billion worth of revenue - every single year! Even just one tenth of that would generate $9 billion per annum - enough to support bases on the Moon and Mars.

This is why I am optimistic about lunar and Mars business opportunities.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#9 2020-02-22 19:22:13

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,218

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

I am sceptical of the value of space tourism.  Jet travel holidays became such a large market because it was affordable to the masses.  Space tourism is always going to be a niche market for the very rich.  Perhaps a few thousand individuals in all of humanity will have both the means and the desire.  And unless you can provide these people with luxury facilities, the novelty of being in space will get old very quickly.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#10 2020-02-29 18:30:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

You are correct and here is that other topic for the post

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ... the link below leads to an article about space architecture.

The specific article is about Axiom and ideas for a consumer space hotel for the ISS or independent operation.

It could go into several topics as you see fit.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nasas-space- … 00304.html

(th)

It is in hope that space tourism will flourish but that needs cheap flight costs so as for many to part take of the vacation away from earth. Just hoping that it will become more for business ventures as there are limited people whom can afford currently to go. The other part of this will drive further launcher companies to begin and for others to build more stations. The control of these are an issue for the future as the population that can go and will change the future for all by creating the frontier in which we dream of going too.

axiom station
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 11#p134511
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 61#p134461
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 04#p134904
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 66#p149066
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 61#p164861
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 33#p164833
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 60#p164860

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#11 2020-02-29 18:54:14

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

I would disagree. It depends what you mean by a niche market.

Cruises at sea were once enjoyed by only a very small elite. In the last 30 years the number of cruise passengers has grown from about 4 million pa to 28 million - an incredible growth rate.

https://cruisemarketwatch.com/growth/

Many of these cruises involve substantial outlay.

If 1 million people pa were prepared to pay an average of say $150,000 for orbital or lunar tourism "cruises", that would be a market of $150 billion. I can see that developing over the next 20-30 years. The cost of providing the experience certainly won't be going up. We will see a progressive decline in cost.  To be able to afford and then to be able later to talk to friends and family about these orbital and lunar experiences will carry incredible status value which will mean people will be prepared to go that extra mile in terms of saving for or setting aside funds for such an experience.

It will be limited to the very rich to begin with but at some point we are going to crack cheap transfer to orbit I think - maybe with a microwave craft and then this could become a mass experience.

I don't think the novelty will wear off. The novelty of sea cruises hasn't worn off. The novelty of visiting "exotic" places on Earth hasn't worn off. The idea that you could travel to the Moon and visit the original Apollo 11 landing site and look at Armstrong and Aldrin's footprints has got to be a real pull, as will be seeing Earthrise, or seeing your name lasered into rock on the lunar surface as a visitor to the Moon. 

I am sure space tourism companies will develop additional experiences for the visitor  e.g. playing Quidditch in a huge Bigelow hab or playing golf on a course on the Moon (the sort of thing golf bores will talk about for several decades thereafter!).

I have absolutely no doubt that space tourism will become a multi-billion dollar industry within the next ten years. Eventually Mars will be brought in on the tourist trail. That will be an even bigger pull!

Calliban wrote:

I am sceptical of the value of space tourism.  Jet travel holidays became such a large market because it was affordable to the masses.  Space tourism is always going to be a niche market for the very rich.  Perhaps a few thousand individuals in all of humanity will have both the means and the desire.  And unless you can provide these people with luxury facilities, the novelty of being in space will get old very quickly.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#12 2020-02-29 18:58:48

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

The cruise ship trips will take a hit for a while after many being caught in the quaranteen on board them....
I think the value of sub orbital might be something to be skeptical of...

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#13 2020-10-21 20:48:42

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

The dream of people getting space is alive. Company advances plan for private citizen flight to space station

Houston-based Axiom Space is negotiating final details of a contract with NASA to fly a private citizen to the International Space Station in 2021. The company advertises flights to space station for $55 million to $60 million to spend 10 days in microgravity at an altitude of over 250 miles. Passengers must spend 15 weeks in training after a physical, according to the mission description.

Not cheap...

axiom-space-iss-commercial-space-station-node-2-forward-port-module-hg.jpg

Axiom also is working on a private space station module, which it intends to launch in 2024, said Suffredini, who formerly served as NASA's space station program manager for 10 years. That module will be expanded until it can be detached as its own space station.

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#14 2021-03-11 22:05:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Wheeling and dealing Axiom is trading tickets on Russian rockets and US spacecraft

Houston, Texas’ Axiom Space. The firm, founded by former NASA executive Michael Suffredini in 2016, raised $130 million last month for its business flying tourists to the space station and, it hopes, eventually deploying its own orbital platform. This may be a smart arbitrage for Axiom: If the Soyuz seat cost less than a seat on a future commercial crew mission, Axiom made a profit—and turned a ride on an older Russian rocket into a seat on a modern American design it can then offer to its customers.

If the Soyuz seat was sold at the rates NASA last paid ($90.3 million), then compared to the estimated cost of a seat on a Crew Dragon ($60 million), Axiom just took a $30 million loss as a favor to the US space agency. But if Axiom paid less (Roscosmos sold rides on Soyuz for as low as $21 million in the early 2000s) then they effectively made money on the deal.

Sounds like stock investing buy low sell high...

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#15 2021-03-27 20:25:34

SpaceNut
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#16 2021-05-01 19:01:40

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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#17 2021-05-13 12:47:48

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 12,008

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

For SpaceNut .... you may have already posted this?

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/spac … 58468.html

It may seem like overkill to get to visit space twice in a lifetime as a private astronaut, but Maezawa says he's driven by a curiosity of "what's life like in space?" which will of course be useful information to have on the planned moon mission, which will spend three days getting there, make a loop around our natural satellite, and then spend three days coming back. He's also planning to post the experience to YouTube, which is why Hirano is accompanying him to document the trip.

This is the gent who's booked a flight to the Moon (around the Moon) with SpaceX.

(th)

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#18 2021-05-13 17:31:25

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Lunar tourism is going to be huge and another huge earner for Space X who will be first.  Maybe a 14 day trip. with 5-6 days on the lunar surface. There will be a purpose built lunar hotel. Probably located reasonably close to the Apollo 11 site which will be one of the main draws. Another draw will be playing sports like golf on the moon, kitted out in an EVA space suit. Rover tours and lunar buggy rides will also be popular. 

The lunar hotel will be popular with honeymooning couples.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#19 2021-05-14 02:41:09

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,218

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

I think people will quickly get bored with space tourism.  The novelty is going to wear off as more and more people do it.  And when all is said and done, it is going to be difficult and expensive to build an orbital space station with all of the facilities that one would expect of a luxury hotel here on Earth.  A Lunar hotel has the same problem.  Right now it is exciting to people because it is a novel idea.  But once the novelty wears off, the moon is a desert without air.  And building luxury facilities there will be very expensive.  On a world where water must be extracted from rock where its maximum concentration is 0.1%, a swimming pool would be a very expensive extravagance.  Any EVA activities are risky exercises that are also expensive.  I cannot honestly see this being a profit making enterprise.  It is going to cost billions of dollars to establish a small base of the moon.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#20 2021-05-14 06:24:01

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

It will be "the holiday of a lifetime".

There are 7 billion people on Earth. If only 1% of the population are interested in a lunar holiday that's still 70 million, let's say about one million per annum if it's a once in a lifetime thing. Multiply that by say $100,000 and that would be an annual market worth $100 billion. I'm not saying that will develop immediately but that's the sort of commercial opportunity out there.

If you could launch 50 people on a Starship bound for the moon and the launch costs $2 million, then that's a starting point of $40,000 per person. I'd then estimate the rest of the costs around $60,000 (bearing in mind there would be quite a lot of pre-holiday training and medical testing). But costs would be coming down all the time as the lunar hotel becomes more self-sufficient, growing its own food etc, using lunar water etc.

Yes, luxury facilities would be expensive but there is the revenue to cover that. Water is going to be recycled. Swimming pool water will be recycled. Supplies such as chlorine would have to be brought in.

The structures for the hotel can be built on Earth and inflated or assembled on the Moon.

Are you really saying you wouldn't enjoy a lunar holiday? I think it would be fascinating to see the Apollo lander up close and to see Armstrong and Aldrin's footprints.

EVA suits would need careful consideration. Certainly Apollo era suits would be impractical. Moon walking, lunar golf and other games, lunar exploration, bringing back your own lunar rock etc etc would all be fascinating as well as you'd get the zero G ride, and see planet Earth. Come on! It would be fantastic.

For a lot people it would be a status thing - being able to impress friends and relatives.

You'd need a high ratio of staff to guests - probably 1 staff to 3 guests or something like that. Health and safety would be a major concern. You'd need a large medical unit attached to the hospital capable of dealing with a range of emergencies - a mini hospital really.

Over the years the lunar hotel would grow into a spectacular resort with, no doubt, a large domed area.

Calliban wrote:

I think people will quickly get bored with space tourism.  The novelty is going to wear off as more and more people do it.  And when all is said and done, it is going to be difficult and expensive to build an orbital space station with all of the facilities that one would expect of a luxury hotel here on Earth.  A Lunar hotel has the same problem.  Right now it is exciting to people because it is a novel idea.  But once the novelty wears off, the moon is a desert without air.  And building luxury facilities there will be very expensive.  On a world where water must be extracted from rock where its maximum concentration is 0.1%, a swimming pool would be a very expensive extravagance.  Any EVA activities are risky exercises that are also expensive.  I cannot honestly see this being a profit making enterprise.  It is going to cost billions of dollars to establish a small base of the moon.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#21 2021-05-14 15:28:23

Oldfart1939
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Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 2,306

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Space Tourism to the Moon will be fairly popular, and will remain expensive. Similar to a guided expedition to Mt. Everest, which costs $50,000 (actually more now--this number is several years old). There will be curious adventurers at first, but it's also not going to become a family vacation destination.

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#22 2021-05-14 16:31:07

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Yes, I think the Mt Everest ascent holiday is the closest parallel in many ways, although it will be a lot less dangerous! Another comparison is the round the world cruise where people pay similar amounts for a "once in a lifetime" holiday experience.

I do think the status thing will be a huge draw because in the status game you can't really trump "We went to the Moon this year."

Oldfart1939 wrote:

Space Tourism to the Moon will be fairly popular, and will remain expensive. Similar to a guided expedition to Mt. Everest, which costs $50,000 (actually more now--this number is several years old). There will be curious adventurers at first, but it's also not going to become a family vacation destination.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#23 2021-05-14 17:06:38

SpaceNut
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Posts: 26,753

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

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#24 2021-05-17 08:59:08

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

Russian Tv show movie Federation or Scientology into space?
The production is set to begin on October 5, 2021 — the same month Cruise and director Doug Liman are expected to arrive at the ISS to film the first Hollywood production in space. Tom Cruise to shoot movie in SPACE with Elon Musk’s SpaceX

The Russian actress may become the first to film a movie on the ISS
https://www.slashgear.com/russian-actre … -17673008/

Russia In Race With US To Film First Movie In Space
https://www.unilad.co.uk/film-and-tv/ru … -in-space/

Space Film Race?

Russia Picks Cast For First Film To Be Shot On ISS, But NASA Launching Plans, Too
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-first-sp … 54649.html

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#25 2021-09-10 05:00:40

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Opening up Tourism for Space

SpaceX to raise bar for space tourism with Inspiration4 launch
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Spac … h_999.html

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