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#1 2018-07-24 05:21:14

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,362
Website

Egg centrifuge

A 1 metre diameter centrifuge that provides an acceleration of 0.5g would have to spin at 30 RPM. This is (probably) impractical for mobile animals, ruling out it's use in investigating mammalian fetal development, but eggs (probably?) don't have the same problems with high RPM. We can investigate that issue fairly cheaply down here before any hardware flies, anyway. If eggs are used, the space in the centrifuge can be very small - it's just an incubator - and there's no need to handle animal wastes or feeding.

I propose that a small centrifuge could be used to investigate fetal development of egg laying animals. The centrifuge could be launched using the Dragon spacecraft and mounted somewhere in the ISS. The fetuses would develop in the centrifuge and returned to Earth for study shortly before hatching. This would give important data regarding the potential for human fetal development on other planets and moons.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#2 2018-07-24 11:29:34

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,877

Re: Egg centrifuge

Seems like a good idea!


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#3 2018-07-29 03:40:11

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,262

Re: Egg centrifuge

A foetus in an egg is effectively suspended in a liquid, so during most of its development it is weightless.

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#4 2018-07-29 06:09:07

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,362
Website

Re: Egg centrifuge

Yet they have found that there are problems with foetal development in zero-G. It seems that foetuses need a down direction of some kind, but we don't know how much. Who knows, even 0.01g might be enough.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#5 2018-07-29 07:51:43

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,024

Re: Egg centrifuge

Spinning would force the yolk to the end or shell of the egg that would face outward from the center of spin. This could compress the fluids towards that direction. When the chick would grow it being of a higher denisty would also be forced to that same end as it developed. I think Bone is a higher denisity when compared to tissue. The question is would this lead to deformity?

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#6 2018-07-29 11:17:22

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,362
Website

Re: Egg centrifuge

1g of acceleration doesn't lead to deformed chicks at the moment, so I doubt it would in space.

At any rate, the point isn't to spin them at 1g, but at differing levels of partial-g. Maybe 0.1 to 0.5.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#7 2018-07-29 11:24:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,024

Re: Egg centrifuge

Sounds like a do able ISS experiment that would look at furtelize egg developement for the spin rates to me to chick hatching.

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#8 2020-12-23 07:39:16

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,208

Re: Egg centrifuge

For Terraformer re post #1

This seems like an idea worth pursuing.

The purpose of this post is to bring the topic back into view.

Circumstances of the forum have changed. 

We are now in a mode of recruiting new members, and the only available mechanism is nomination by existing members.

It is possible you are acquainted with people who would be capable of moving this idea forward, and the UK is as good a place as any for that to happen.

(th)

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#9 2021-07-18 06:12:03

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,208

Re: Egg centrifuge

The RobertDyck Large Ship concept would meet the requirements of this topic.

The Large Ship would spin at a rate sufficient to provide Mars equivalent gravity without exceeding the tolerance of humans for rotation.

The define rate of rotation for the Large Ship is 20 seconds per turn.  See Large Ship topic for details.

I am reawakening this Top Level Index item with a focus on implementing Large Ship as the platform. 

(th)

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#10 2021-07-18 07:00:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,024

Re: Egg centrifuge

Any mammals being put in a container of any size being brought into an AG experiment to find what development issues occur is just what we are in need of as we know the results of the extremes.

So how do we build such a unit, what diameter for rpm variation, duration of testing and what do we chose to perform experiments on for mammal type? Then how would we launch it, let alone pay for its ability to be created?

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#11 2021-07-18 07:40:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 7,208

Re: Egg centrifuge

For SpaceNut re #10

Thank you for your support of the restart of this Index level category!

In sentence 1 of your post, you have revealed a funding source, by suggesting mammals for AG experiments.  There are groups that invest great sums to promote the welfare of animals.  I note that both the Soviets (in their era) and the Americans used dogs as test animals in trying to learn about the dangers of space.  Hopefully the experiments you are proposing would not have the unhappy consequences for the test animals.

To you second question, I'd like to invite you and your followers to study the work of RobertDyck in the Large Ship topic.  While RobertDyck has not answered every question that will come up in realizing the Large Ship, he ** has ** taken a swing at many of them.

You will find that diameter is locked into place. There is no further need to debate diameter.

You will find that RPM is locked into space. There is no need for further debate about RPM.

The questions about which animals to select, what experiments to perform, who will launch the components of the system, and who will provide funding remain available for creative thinking.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-07-18 07:40:48)

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#12 2021-07-18 08:40:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,024

Re: Egg centrifuge

The large ship is built on orbit for humans and can not be used for that reason for experimentation.

We need something that can be sent up in 1 piece.

My suggestion
Option 1 would be to tether 2 cygnus to perform diameter rpm testing as desired with cable winch, launched on a Falcon 9 heavy.
option 2 use space x truck or single cygnus to perform the experiment with smaller diameter higher rpm

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