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#26 2021-11-21 10:20:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,979

Re: Jupiters Realms

The longer the approach time is inside of the jovian system the higher that REM count will be even in the ship you are getting there in.

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#27 2021-11-21 10:43:01

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 4,676

Re: Jupiters Realms

I am interested.

Caliban,

The GCR is protected for for Europa, and maybe Io?  How about Ganymede and Callisto?

Spacenut how about cycling spaceships to escort protected ships through the fields for most of the way?

All of the gas giant plants are behind the solar snow line, even Jupiter.

How about protective "Ice Boxes".  That is envelopes built primarily of water ice?

I guess a more proper term is "Frost Line".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_lin … physics%29
Quote:

Frost line (astrophysics)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
In astronomy or planetary science, the frost line, also known as the snow line or ice line, is the particular distance in the solar nebula from the central protostar where it is cold enough for volatile compounds such as water, ammonia, methane, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide to condense into solid ice grains.

Each volatile substance has its own snow line (e.g. carbon monoxide,[1] nitrogen,[2] and argon[3]), so it is important to always specify which material's snow line is meant. A tracer gas may be used for materials that are difficult to detect; for example diazenylium for carbon monoxide.

The term is borrowed from the notion of "frost line" in soil science.

I had previously been interested in the value of Jupiter's magnetic field for space habitats to be embedded in it.  I was thinking of locations like Calisto, or a bit more out from Jupiter.  But "Ice Boxes" would grant more protection, so that perhaps Calisto and Ganymede might become accessible.

Sources of raw materials could then be Calisto, Ganymede, the Trojans, and the Asteroids, maybe even the terrestrials, but I think it would
be likely to get most locally.

An "Ice Box" would largely be composed of water ice, but could include fiber in the ice, to make it a bit like Pykrete. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete

There would be no reason why you could not coat the ice with some substance that would render the ice even more stable.

And contrary to what most people might think, I think that solar could be the energy source.  Simply use thin solar concentrating mirrors.
That may even be possible at Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto>Kuiper belt.  Of course best options are at Jupiter.

One may use Chevron walls, so that heat can escape from the "Box", but impactors are dealt with to some degree, and also radiation is impeded, and sunlight can enter the box.

And so, you could have spacecraft and spinning habitats inside of the "Ice Box".

Then some of these could have orbits that are a multiple of either Calisto, or Ganymede.

Someday, maybe even for Europa and Io.  Most likely only mining robots for Io.

Done.

It is so hard to get an image of the Chevron coverings for the windows of an O'Neil Cylinder!
   
OK, what is bellow with all the arrow pointers.  Imagine that what you want to allow to pass or want to block can be strongly controlled
by the structure below.  Sunlight, impactors, and radiation passing downward on this page.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ideally only Sunlight getting through to this sentence.

Of course the geometry of the wall made of chevrons is not actually perfect as per engineering.

It is possible that if you query for "Chevron" something will turn up on this site.  I did deal with it previously in some post.

Done.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/ne … spacecraft
Quote:

A champion of the cycling spaceship idea is the Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin. Aldrin's vision is to have large cycling spaceships swinging permanently between the orbits of Earth and Mars. A cycling spacecraft in an elliptical orbit would transit from Earth to Mars and back again, permanently cycling between the orbits of the two planets. This approach could be used to put in place an interplanetary passenger transport system.

Of course we cannot likely use an "Ice House" cycling space structure sunward of the Frost Line.  However it should be OK for many of "Jupiter's Realms".

It could be that huge populations may exist in orbit of Jupiter and the other Gas/Ice Giants.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-11-21 12:45:34)


Done.

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#28 2021-11-21 11:26:09

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 4,676

Re: Jupiters Realms

I guess I could amend my just previous post.

You could, perhaps use an "Ice Box", closer to the sun than the "Frost Line", but you would have to include an effective and reliable sun shade method.

So, going forward in time, perhaps there could be huge enclosures cycling from Earth to ?, providing hospitality support to spaceships and habitats enclosed within.

But not for a while I would think.

Mars, Ceres, and Callisto could provide the ice, I guess, maybe Earth>Hydrogen/Moon>Oxygen.

Done.


Done.

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#29 2021-11-21 13:13:22

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Jupiters Realms

I don't think solar can be ruled out until you reach maybe Saturn. There's nothing that would stop large concentrating structures being build in space, with power beamed down by microwave to surface settlements. As I said elsewhere, Earth is uniquely ill suited to beamed power, because the land is already being used by creatures that we don't want to fry. But Ganymede has plenty of land for building rectenna arrays, and no birds flying over it or ramblers rambling on it to boil under a 10kW/m^2 flux.

But maybe Io has transuranics?


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#30 2021-11-21 16:42:25

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 4,676

Re: Jupiters Realms

Hi Terraformer,

So good to see you here again.  Korov was very optimistic about solar energy.  Time will tell.

I fear that yes a mirror will suffer attrition from impactors, and have to be rebuilt.  Also accuracy of the surface is a problem.

But we will see.

Like you I feel that solar for the Jupiter system, is probably do-able.  For Saturn, ?

We can hope that by that time Fusion or some advance fission will be available, or something else?

But with the terrestrials, and the Jupiter Realms, and just possibly Saturn, that's a lot of stuff smile

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-11-21 16:43:45)


Done.

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#31 2022-01-02 10:41:31

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 3,327

Re: Jupiters Realms

Jupiter Clipper mission is scheduled to launch in October 2024 aboard a Falcon Heavy

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon … n-mission/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 … ain-price/

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#32 2022-04-22 06:34:31

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 3,327

Re: Jupiters Realms

NASA's Lucy mission is a 'go' for solar array deployment attempt

https://phys.org/news/2022-04-nasa-lucy … array.html

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#33 2022-05-02 09:24:00

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 3,327

Re: Jupiters Realms

Potential For Shallow Liquid Water On Jupiter's Moon Europa, Study Suggests

https://www.independent.co.uk/space/jup … 60866.html

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