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#1 2018-03-27 21:58:00

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 2,221

James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Once again the James Webb Space Telescope is delayed to 2020 and is facing a cost overrun which may bust the budget cap. The problem this time is some of the directional thrusters are "contaminated?" This is after the unfurling and refurlling of the heat sunshade designed to keep the satellite cold.

In a statement by Rep. Lamar Smith (Republican, TX), the chairman of the House Science Committee: "These continued delays and cost overruns undermine confidence in NASA and it's prime contractor, Northrup Grumman."

If the overruns exceed the budget cap and the house declines to renew or augment funding, the entire project is subject to cancellation. The amount spent on another NASA white elephant project is $8 Billion.

IMHO: NASA needs to stop trying to make promises it cannot keep; the space telescope was far too complex and at a location which precludes a manned servicing mission. I love what it was promised to do.

Added in edit: this situation makes the projected WFIRST telescope look a lot more promising--and affordable.

Last edited by Oldfart1939 (2018-03-27 22:00:02)

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#2 2018-03-28 09:16:53

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,615

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Oldfart1939,

Projects like JWST, SLS, and Orion are the only reason why NASA has no funding for "real space exploration" missions, or merely sending humans into LEO again, for that matter.  There's an extreme "cart / horse" problem at NASA.  Their contractors pull them in every conceivable direction because there's no coherent program to accomplish anything worth doing.  JWST was and is a worthy project, but not at a cost of $8B.  If the technology is so complicated and sensitive that it's just not ready for prime time yet, then focused development programs should test new technologies until they're ready for use in a mission.  Every major project the agency has undertaken since STS has been absurdly over budget.  That's the problem with using cost-plus contracts to develop mission hardware.  There's no incentive on the part of the contractor to minimize costs.

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#3 2018-03-28 10:38:04

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,576
Website

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Cost-plus is entirely appropriate when what you are attempting is something not done before.  Fixed-fee is appropriate for doing things that already well-known and well defined.  There is a spectrum of things between those two extremes.  JWST is partly never-done-before and partly done-before-on-Hubble, etc.  It shouldn't have been one giant contract program. 

SLS is building a Saturn-5-equivalent out of shuttle hardware tinkertoys.  There's no real never-done-before content in that,  other than trying to tame the combustion instabilities in the 5-segment SRB's.  I can understand why that has been costly,  as that has never before been done at this size,  in an already-fully-metallized propellant.  That leaves only mods to the grain bore shapes to adjust.  In total,  the program really isn't very much about actually flying a giant rocket,  it's corporate welfare for the entire shuttle contractor base.  Kinda shows,  don't it?

Orion is building Apollo 30% larger with more modern avionics,  but no lander,  and a foreign-built (undersized) service module.  There's nothing new there,  either.  No excuse for it to be so expensive,  or to have taken so long.  More corporate welfare for the "old space" contractor base.  Shows rather badly,  don't it?

GW

ps -- got the staples out this morning.  doing well.

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-03-28 10:39:19)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#4 2018-03-28 13:44:41

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 2,221

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

GW-

In response to your 2 "kinda shows badly": Yup!

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#5 2018-03-28 17:19:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

We did have an older topic James webb which captured some of the unobtanium cost over runs through the past decade and it does not surprise me that cost plus is striking out again to a contractor that was not cable of providing the product in the first place.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spe … yed-again/

It's yet another setback for the ambitious but beleaguered mission, which has been in the works since 1996. The cost of the mission quickly ballooned past the initial projection of about $1 billion, and the launch was pushed back from 2007 to 2008, then 2009, then 2010, then 2011, then 2013, then 2014, then 2015 or maybe 2016. The delay may increase the cost of the mission to beyond the $8 billion funding cap established by law.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/ja … gthy-delay

For more than a generation, astronomers have been waiting for the James Webb Space Telescope, NASA’s successor to the iconic Hubble Space Telescope. On Tuesday they learned they will have to wait even longer, as agency officials revealed Webb’s launch date has slipped from spring of 2019 to approximately May of 2020—a delay that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars, breaching the $8.8 billion telescope’s Congressionally-mandated cost cap and requiring legislators to either provide more funding or abandon the project.

The calamity of errors are:
Valves on the spacecraft’s thrusters had sprung leaks after being improperly cleaned, and replacing them had taken the better part of a year.
five-layered folding “sunshield” had also been torn during a test as it unfurled, requiring time-consuming failure analyses and repairs.

This was the sales pitch:

Unlike Hubble, which resides in low-Earth orbit and has been kept alive by repeated servicing missions, Webb would be stationed beyond the orbit of the moon and cooled nearly to absolute zero by its sunshield. Its mission would last until it runs out of fuel in five to 10 years.

From its lofty perch Webb’s sophisticated infrared instruments and giant 6.5-meter mirror would see what Hubble never could: the universe’s very first stars and galaxies, embryonic star systems mid-formation in cosmic wombs of gas and dust, and the atmospheres of planets orbiting other stars.

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#6 2021-05-18 14:46:44

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 885

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Chinese plan to reverse engineer and copy the ideas of James Webb Space Telescope ...hopefully not soon and not before JWST gets launched?
https://twitter.com/stromgade/status/13 … 7533497348
JWST is the telescope of the future, it is beyond cutting edge, it was probably overly complex, multiple partners across the world, complex flattening and unfolding system, it still will be beyond cutting edge ...but... what caused all the delay and why has China been allwed to catch up with the USA.

People here remember the old newmars discussions on the next Hubble, they also remember a time when it was supposed to be launched in 2007.

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#7 2021-05-18 19:36:38

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

They tend to do that with just about every thing including reports of a starship...…

The way that the telescope is gaining magnification is the most unique in that its taking small mirrors to simulate the large un-launchable that would be required to perform in this unit.

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#8 2021-06-01 14:39:48

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 885

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Webb telescope launch date slips again
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/06 … ips-again/

Black Hole Keeps Evading Detecting and Scientists Can't Explain It
https://science.slashdot.org/story/21/0 … explain-it

That mystery could be solved by Hubble's successor — NASA's big, powerful James Webb Space Telescope, which is scheduled to launch in October 2021. If James Webb doesn't spot a black hole in the galaxy's heart or in one of its bigger stellar clumps, "then the best explanation is that the black hole has recoiled well out of the center of the galaxy," NASA officials wrote.

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#9 2021-06-01 18:26:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,096

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

launch on a European Ariane 5 rocket from a spaceport in French Guiana

its been a case of picking an untried design with an unknown contractor that had never made a telescope let alone one of this size.
equaling cost overruns and lots of repair work to get it right....

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#10 2021-06-14 06:41:12

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 885

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Another delay?

We have old topics on newmars that show it was to launch all the way back in 2007
it once had a 500-million-dollar budget

It will have 6 times larger in area than Hubble. It is so large it is made in 18 pieces that fold together during the launch, so that it can fit into a rocket. It is mainly an infrared telescope but also works in the red part of the visible light (the pictures will be coded with false color so we can see them). The JWST will be in orbit far from Earth, to avoid heat radiating from the Earth and moon. This special orbit is beyond the moon, at the second Lagrange point (L2) of the Sun-Earth system, a place of stable gravity.  It is plated with gold because gold reflects infrared very well. It will be able to see things that the Hubble Space Telescope cannot.  It is protected by a large sunshield the size of a tennis court to keep it cool and dark.

JWST launch slips to November
https://spacenews.com/jwst-launch-slips-to-november/

“Earth Cousins” Are New Targets for Planetary Materials Research
https://eos.org/opinions/earth-cousins- … s-research
For example, observing Earth-analogue exoplanets—that is, Earth-sized planets orbiting within the habitable zone of their host stars—is difficult today and will remain so even with the next-generation James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) and large-aperture ground-based telescopes. In coming years, it will be much easier to gather data on—and to test hypotheses about the processes that generate and sustain habitability using—“Earth cousins.” These small-radius exoplanets lack solar system analogues but are more accessible to observation because they are slightly bigger or slightly hotter than Earth.

Scientists discover new exoplanet with an atmosphere ripe for study
https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/202 … 060821.php
Past research suggests planets this cool may have clouds high in their atmospheres, which makes it hard to determine what types of gases surround them. But new observations of another small, cool planet called K2-18 b broke this trend and showed evidence of water in its atmosphere, surprising many astronomers.

"TOI-1231 b is one of the only other planets we know of in a similar size and temperature range, so future observations of this new planet will let us determine just how common (or rare) it is for water clouds to form around these temperate worlds," said Burt.

Additionally, with its host star's high Near-Infrared (NIR) brightness, it makes an exciting target for future missions with the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) and the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST). The first set of these observations, led by one of the paper's co-authors, should take place later this month using the Hubble Space Telescope.

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#11 2021-09-07 08:51:59

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 885

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

Billions and Years Later Than Originally Expected,  it is Finally Ready For Launch?

NASA's James Webb Space Telescope is Ready for Space!
https://www.labroots.com/trending/chemi … eady-space

https://twitter.com/RedSharkNews/status … 6134332417

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-09-07 08:55:20)

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#12 2021-09-09 11:57:22

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 2,221

Re: James Webb Space Telescope again delayed

James Webb Space Telescope has a launch date!!

From French Guiana aboard an Ariene V launch vehicle, 18 December 2021.

Only a "few years late, and over budget."

https://spacenews.com/jwst-gets-mid-dec … unch-date/

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