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#1 2002-04-01 22:42:47

Michael Bloxham
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-03-31
Posts: 426

Re: Anti-G Suits

Is it possible to maybe magnetize the iron particles in the blood? Or maybe add iron (Or other magnetic particle) to the blood? If either is possible, Imagine the possibilities! Imagine the year 2050, you take a drink of 'Magneto Grog' before heading to your private spacecraft. You sit down in your electro magnetic chair and take off to the stars at 30gs! Ofcourse the chair is hooked up to a g sensor and computer to control the exact amount of counterforce required in any given second. Ahh, the year 2050 *drools*. Is there any literature on this subject?


- Mike,  Member of the Clean Slate Society

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#2 2002-04-02 07:47:14

Adrian
Moderator
From: London, United Kingdom
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 642
Website

Re: Anti-G Suits

I remember seeing that picture. Interesting stuff, but alas impractical for space travel purposes as yet.

I think that in order to counter high-Gs, the only solution being seriously considered is immersing your astronaut in some kind of liquid gel, to dissipate and spread out stresses. It was thought that something like this would be necessary for things like the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute's 'Lightcraft' thing, where a spacecraft would be powered by a ground-based laser on takeoff.

This sort of thing however isn't really a big deal in terms of Mars missions since it doesn't make that much sense to have a high-G takeoff when you're going to be travelling for six months or so.


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#3 2002-04-02 19:41:23

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Anti-G Suits

I was reading about the possibility of immersing an astronaut in a gel-like substance to counteract the effects of high acceleration once.  They said the gel would have to be roughly the same density as the human body in order to be effective.  Has anyone actually subjected poor mice or other critters to high-g's to test this theory out?  How many G's would such a gel allow the occupants to endure?  I was thinking that maybe such gels could make launching humans into orbit via railguns a possibility, but that's prolly too extreme even for Jello. smile


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#4 2002-04-02 22:49:40

Michael Bloxham
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-03-31
Posts: 426

Re: Anti-G Suits

That was exactly my thoughts. While Jello may offset a force of around 20gs, electro magnetic chairs could offset, theoretically, an infinite amount of g's. My theory is, if every slice of our body has iron particles in it (From the red blood cells) then there would be no limit to how much g's you could counterforce with electromagnets. Because you wouldn't be just applying counter-force to the blood, but the whole body (Except for fluids in the body like urine and bile, which don't contain iron(Make sure you to take a leak before strapping yourself in the railgun, unless you want 100 tonnes of pressure on your bladder!:0).). The only real limit being the strength of the magnet and the power supplied to it. And according to Alex, that would be a lot of power. So is there a way to add iron particles, perhaps by injecting them directly into the blood stream?


- Mike,  Member of the Clean Slate Society

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#5 2002-04-04 18:45:43

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Anti-G Suits

Would it be medically feasible to put that much iron into a human body?  I know it's good to have at least some iron, but the body might be unable to cope with such a massive amount
of it.  Well anyways, thanks for the warning before I strap myself into an electromagnetic chair.  I'm not sure the rest of the crew would appreciate my imploding bladder.  smile


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#6 2002-04-04 23:26:21

Michael Bloxham
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-03-31
Posts: 426

Re: Anti-G Suits

Perhaps it is possible to add iron in a form that is not absorbed by the body. As for the levitating frog, I just saw 'Secrets Of Levitation' on the Discovery channel. It not only showed the levitating frog, but also a spider and a small plant. Levitating a human would require 'about 100 megawatts'. 100 megawatts is a lot nowdays, but in the future, supplying a spacecraft with that much power would seem feasable. I also suspect that such a field could be used as a means of supplying artificial gravity. -A real life equivalent to the Repulsorlifts of Star Wars. Which brings up another argument. Mars dust is magnetic, right? Can this martian dust be used as an object for a magnet to push against? As in Luke Skywalker's Landspeeder? Woohoo, Landspeeders on mars! big_smile


- Mike,  Member of the Clean Slate Society

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#7 2002-04-05 01:11:53

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Anti-G Suits

There is a disease called haemochromatosis (not 100% sure of this spelling) which is essentially too much iron in the blood. It is more common in people of celtic ancestry, I believe.
   Eventually it damages the liver and the treatment for it consists of regular (monthly? ) draining of some of the sufferer's blood.
   Maybe this iron thing for astronauts isn't such a good thing!
                                      sad


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#8 2002-04-07 11:08:56

Lil_vader
Banned
Registered: 2001-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Anti-G Suits

Magnetizing the iron in the blood causes certain immediate health problems. Being near a strong enough magnet causes people to faint. I don't think that would be a good idea.

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#9 2002-04-07 16:05:43

Michael Bloxham
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-03-31
Posts: 426

Re: Anti-G Suits

Where'd you get that information from Lil Vader? If being near a strong enough magnet causes you to faint, that would probably mean the blood is indeed magnetic. Being near a strong magnet would cause the blood to pull closer to the magnet and away from the brain. If we put a strong magnet near the brain, however, then we would keep the subjects from fainting even under high G forces. Ofcourse doing that would pull the blood from other bodily organs, like the legs. The trick is to keep the blood stable throughout the whole body under high G loads. -The theory behind the electro magnetic chair.


- Mike,  Member of the Clean Slate Society

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#10 2002-04-12 15:42:38

Lil_vader
Banned
Registered: 2001-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Anti-G Suits

I think the problem was more because messing with the polarity of the iron in hemoglobin made it harder for the blood to carry and deliver oxygen.

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#11 2002-07-16 14:17:16

Auqakah
Member
From: England
Registered: 2002-07-13
Posts: 175

Re: Anti-G Suits

Uhhhh one other small problem with the electromagnetic anti-g chair thing: exposure to intense electromagnetic fields may cause leukaemia - do astronaughts need ANOTHER cause? I think I also read somewhere that the magnetic lines of force tweak at our DNA strands very slightly, and more strongly the more intense the magnetic field - d'you want your DNA scrambled by an intense electromagnetic field? Doesn't seem too good for the health, to me.

Oh, and too much iron in the blood will kill you - blood poisoning.


Ex Astra, Scienta

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#12 2002-07-16 20:20:52

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Anti-G Suits

After reading what Aukanaq wrote, I think I'll just remain strapped to the walls for the remainder of the mission.  :0


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#13 2002-07-16 20:41:13

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Anti-G Suits

Well anyways, thanks for the warning before I strap myself into an electromagnetic chair.  I'm not sure the rest of the crew would appreciate my imploding bladder.  smile

*Aw, c'mon.  It'll be fun.  wink

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#14 2002-07-17 13:35:04

Auqakah
Member
From: England
Registered: 2002-07-13
Posts: 175

Re: Anti-G Suits

lmao Phobos - I'm sure a chair of some sort would be preferable than the walls, though big_smile


Ex Astra, Scienta

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#15 2002-07-17 13:41:02

Auqakah
Member
From: England
Registered: 2002-07-13
Posts: 175

Re: Anti-G Suits

This was going to be part of the other post, but I hit the add reply button - duh ??? .



"I was reading about the possibility of immersing an astronaut in a gel-like substance to counteract the effects of high acceleration once.  They said the gel would have to be roughly the same density as the human body in order to be effective.  Has anyone actually subjected poor mice or other critters to high-g's to test this theory out?  How many G's would such a gel allow the occupants to endure?  I was thinking that maybe such gels could make launching humans into orbit via railguns a possibility, but that's prolly too extreme even for Jello."

I was reading something about that the other day - I think the stuff is perfluorocarbon, although I'm not sure about that. It's designed to be similar to the fluid we inhabit in the womb, which is the only time in our lives that we breathe in fluid (obviously - I would delete that, but that'd be an awful waste of the typing). Although one drawback with using a fluid in that manner is the little manner of having to drown before every mission, as the human brain simply would not accept that you are capable of breathing in a fluid - all instinct would tell you otherwise. I think Ben Bova had a perfluorocarbon-filled ship in Jupiter, now that I come to think of it - I'm reasonably sure of that. Was a good book, too, worth a read    big_smile . Anyway, I don't think they've actually tested the stuff with people yet, although I know that they've successfully had rats breathing in the stuff.


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#16 2002-07-17 13:42:46

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Anti-G Suits

There is a disease called haemochromatosis (not 100% sure of this spelling)

*In America, we spell it hemochromatosis.  In England and Australia [since you Down-Under folks prefer the English spellings] your spelling would be correct.

The below is from my Stedman's Online Medical Dictionary [software in my computer]: 

hemochromatosis

A disorder of iron metabolism characterized by excessive absorption of ingested iron, saturation of iron-binding protein, and deposition of hemosiderin in tissue, particularly in the liver, pancreas, and skin; cirrhosis of the liver, diabetes (bronze diabetes), bronze pigmentation of the skin, and, eventually heart failure may occur; also can result from administration of large amounts of iron orally, by injection, or in forms of blood transfusion therapy.

Origin
[hemo- + G. chrbma, color, + -osis, condition]

exogenous hemochromatosis
primary hemochromatosis
secondary hemochromatosis

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#17 2002-07-17 18:54:24

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Anti-G Suits

I was reading something about that the other day - I think the stuff is perfluorocarbon, although I'm not sure about that. It's designed to be similar to the fluid we inhabit in the womb, which is the only time in our lives that we breathe in fluid (obviously - I would delete that, but that'd be an awful waste of the typing). Although one drawback with using a fluid in that manner is the little manner of having to drown before every mission, as the human brain simply would not accept that you are capable of breathing in a fluid - all instinct would tell you otherwise. I think Ben Bova had a perfluorocarbon-filled ship in Jupiter, now that I come to think of it - I'm reasonably sure of that. Was a good book, too, worth a read     . Anyway, I don't think they've actually tested the stuff with people yet, although I know that they've successfully had rats breathing in the stuff.

I imagine you could wear some kind of breathing gear while your immersed in the jello.  I can't see how a long duration flight would be practical though unless you hibernating.  I'd get claustrophobia bad being suspended in all that jello enroute to Jupiter.  I was thinking the gel would be good for high acceleration launches from a planet into orbit.


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#18 2002-07-17 23:40:11

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Anti-G Suits

Thanks Cindy for the run-down on hemachromatosis (Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old-fashioned, say I'm over the hill. Today's spelling ain't got the same pizazz, I like ye olde worlde spelling jazz!!)
   So I guess if we don't want a nasty case of hAemachromatosis, we'll just have to go with that filthy perfluorocarbon stuff .... yechhh!! Unless we can come up with some kind of inertial propulsion system, which UFO buffs claim is what stops aliens getting spread all over the walls of their flying saucers when they do 90 degree turns at several thousand kilometres per hour!
   Wouldn't it be nice to catch a glimpse of future propulsion technology in a crystal ball or something?!
                                          smile


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#19 2002-07-18 20:14:53

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Anti-G Suits

Hey Shaun, the next time I get abducted by Grays from the Tau Ceti quandrant, I'll take some mental snapshots of their propulsion machinery as they carry me through the engine room and into the rectum probing lab.  Maybe I'll take my metal helmet off so the moles at NASA can pinpoint my location via telepathy and relay the info to their masters in the Tau Ceti quandrant.   tongue


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#20 2002-07-19 18:23:51

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Anti-G Suits

Hi Phobos!
   Don't, under any circumstances, take that metal helmet off!!
I know how these NASA people operate. They've already accessed this site ... they know you want their masters' propulsion technology!
   You'll never get the information you want. ... But you will get your rectum probed again!!
   Remember, even in the shower, DON'T TAKE OFF THE HELMET!!
                                         sad


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#21 2021-06-27 09:03:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,122

Re: Anti-G Suits

bump suits or clothing made to aid the body....the MIT spandex is sort this type of clothing direction which would be such an aid.

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