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#1 2004-07-28 11:01:52

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

*This mission has been mentioned in various threads before.  There's a related thread (which began going off-topic quite a bit) from 2003 which can be found by using the Search feature and the words "Jupiter Tour". 

Anyway, here's the Report of the NASA Science Definition Team.  I've begun reading it today. 

:up:

I am so looking forward to this! 

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#2 2004-07-29 11:14:42

Yang Liwei Rocket
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Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Yes, I think it is a great idea for a mission the jupiter icy moons orbiter would be fantastic

I would be looking forward to it also, if the budget hadn't been doing so bad and congress hadn't cut the heck out of some of NASA's great projects  :angry:
so much for progress

I hope it sees no more set-backs


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#3 2004-07-31 09:35:36

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Yes, I think it is a great idea for a mission the jupiter icy moons orbiter would be fantastic

I would be looking forward to it also, if the budget hadn't been doing so bad and congress hadn't cut the heck out of some of NASA's great projects  :angry:
so much for progress

I hope it sees no more set-backs

*I totally agree.

Found this as part of a longer article (okay, so their acronym is "JiMO" -- I'll stand corrected <wink>).  Some of it is repeat information, but much of it is not:

"Called the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter, or JiMO, the spacecraft would move in and out of orbit around three of Jupiter's moons -- Callisto, Ganymede and Europa -- powered by the Prometheus reactor and its electrical propulsion engines.

Using the electricity generated by the reactor, JiMO would be capable of adjusting its orbit to aim its advanced, power-hungry cameras and instruments at features it found interesting on the Jovian lunar surfaces.

In addition to demonstrating the NFR concept, JiMO would attempt to scout the moons for their ability to sustain life, map their surfaces or penetrate sub-surface oceans with advanced space radar, and conduct studies of the chemical composition of the surfaces or the depth and make up of ice covering their liquid oceans.

JiMO also would study the radiation surrounding the moons, as well as their magnetic fields.

Among the instruments being evaluated for the mission -- which would not be launched before 2011 -- are new types of space radars, magnetometers, infrared imagers and high-resolution cameras, as well as new equipment to study the atoms and dust in space near each of the planetary bodies.

Still, just getting JiMO aloft will be difficult for NASA.

Prometheus will be a challenge, said Mike Lembeck, in charge of requirements for NASA's Exploration System Directorate.

When completely deployed in space, JiMO and its Prometheus power and propulsion system will be more than 100 feet long. Currently, Lembeck said, there are no existing space boosters capable of lifting the JiMO package into space as a complete unit -- NASA's preferred plan.

So, we may have to launch in two or three pieces, Lembeck said. NASA also might have to assemble JiMO robotically, he added."

[The remainder of the article -- not dealing with JIMO directly -- was posted in the "Is Prometheus a Nuclear Ramjet?" thread in the "Human Missions" folder]

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#4 2004-08-05 20:52:40

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Memorandum of Understanding signed

*...by Sean O'Keefe and Admiral Frank L. Bowman (hmmm...Frank [Poole] [Dave] Bowman...<Twilight Zone theme music??>) of the U.S. Navy, at NASA hq. 

As touched on in a different thread (months ago, and I can't relocate it):  "The Naval Reactors organization brings 50-plus years of practical experience in developing safe, rugged, reliable, compact and long-lived reactor systems designed to operate in unforgiving environments. Naval Reactors is a joint DOE and Department of the Navy organization responsible for all aspects of naval nuclear propulsion."

*The JIMO reactor will provide 100 times more power than what's previously been available to probes, etc.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#5 2004-08-13 07:12:14

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Boeing places collection of Prometheus Jupiter mission concept materials online

*Makes reference to inspiration from Arthur C. Clarke's "2001:  A Space Odyssey" and a virtual tour of the Jovian system.  I'll check those links during leisure time.

And readers of the story know the Jovian system -wasn't- the original setting for the Monolith Bowman followed, etc.; I preferred the original setting definitely.  But I've been a bad girl lately, apparently, so I'd better be careful not to accidentally drop a spoiler.   :laugh:

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#6 2004-08-20 20:57:59

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

I am just curious to know how people feel that this project arose from the cancellation of a europa mission. Europa is much more interesting scientifically and cost less but Prometheus is much more interesting technologically.

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#7 2004-08-20 21:03:03

John Creighton
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Some quotes from the above articale:

But O'Keefe's ignorance of basic details of aerospace technology is now infamous; and this is not the first time he has been tricked into backing a seriously questionable major new program by his more experienced NASA underlings. They hold a strong and predictable desire to keep the agency's total funding level pumped as high as possible, whether it's justified or not.

There's the equal eagerness with which he cancelled the proposed billion-dollar Europa Orbiter, and shocked everyone instead by proposing to replace it with the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter - a 26-metric-ton behemoth, propelled by a revolutionary new nuclear-electric propulsion system, powered by a miniaturized nuclear reactor, which would cost at least $9 billion to create.

The JIMO mission intends to carry out studies of Ganymede and Callisto, which NASA's own planetary scientists say have far lower priority scientifically than Europa does, and could be done far more cheaply later by simply flying a couple of separate near-duplicates of Europa Orbiter.

Similarly, while orbiting robot repairmen for satellites will indeed be useful for some US space missions in the moderately near future, one is definitely not required - and, in fact, is seriously counterproductive both scientifically and economically - for Hubble.

Once again O'Keefe has been tricked by his technological ignorance and his dishonest underlings into backing a project which would further bloat NASA's funding, and which would actually be destructive to the nation's scientific and space interests, instead of following a far more rational development schedule for it. It's to be strongly hoped that in the cases of both JIMO and the Hubble Repair Robot, that his serious error will be corrected either by himself or by Congress.

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#8 2004-08-20 22:48:47

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Some quotes from the above articale:

The JIMO mission intends to carry out studies of Ganymede and Callisto, which NASA's own planetary scientists say have far lower priority scientifically than Europa does, and could be done far more cheaply later by simply flying a couple of separate near-duplicates of Europa Orbiter.

*Geez that's a long article.  :-/

Well...I can't help feeling compelled to defer to the scientists' thoughts/opinions about this, as quoted above.  Europa is much more intriguing and fascinating to me than all other Jovian moons, hands down.  Always has been.  But Ganymede and Callisto are interesting in their own rights too. 

Here's a handful of interesting articles on Ganymede alone.

However, yes -- cost is an issue.  And what about "simply flying a couple of separate near-duplicates" of the previously planned (and now nixed) Europa Orbiter?  If that scenario would cost less AND involve an orbiter for each Jovian icy moon with undivided attention placed on each...!  [ ::edit::  Except why "later"?...I don't like the word "later" in there.  Why not send them all at the same time, or near to?  ::end edit::]

Thanks for posting this, John. 

--Cindy

P.S.:  I'm sad to see a reference in the same article pertaining to the proposed Neptune orbiter..."does not need to fly until the early 2020s."  sad  Must we wait that long??


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#9 2004-09-20 21:07:47

Palomar
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Northrop Grumman selected

*[big surprise.  big_smile  - not! ]...as contractor in co-designing JIMO. 

"The contract award is for approximately $400 million, covering work through mid-2008...Under the contract, Northrop Grumman will work with a government team to complete the preliminary design for the spacecraft. The work includes developing hardware, software and test activities for the design of the non-nuclear portion of the spacecraft. It also includes developing the interfaces for the spacecraft, space reactor, and science instruments. The contractor is responsible for the integration of government-owned and provided technologies into the spacecraft. They are also responsible for assembly, integration, and testing of the space system in accordance with applicable government requirements."

*Good ol' N-G.  If they can't do it, nobody can.  :-\

"The themes are: evaluate the degree subsurface oceans are present on these moons; study the chemical composition of the moons, including organic materials, and the surface processes that affect them; and scrutinize the entire Jupiter system, particularly the interactions between Jupiter, the moons' atmospheres and interiors."

*Hurry up!  :band:

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#10 2004-09-22 10:02:03

SpaceNut
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

The Jimo project has generated a certain amount of controversy due to its uranium-fuelled nuclear fission reactor. Which creates electricity to drive the "nuclear electric propulsion (NEP)" system. In simple terms, NEP uses the electricity produced by the reactor to ionise propellant atoms which can then be ejected at high velocity from the vehicle's propulsion system by magnetic or electrified grids.

NASA has already proven this "ion drive" technology aboard Deep Space 1, although electricity for the thrusters was in that case provided by solar panels.

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#11 2004-10-07 22:25:07

DannyITR
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Why in the heck did they cancel the europa orbiter? I thought it was supposed to launch this year!!! Thumbs down to NASA. They are saying JIMO would launch between 2015-2020. That is just plain unacceptable. It should launch within 2 years.


Danny------> MontrealRacing.com

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#12 2004-10-08 12:37:26

SpaceNut
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Yup it sure is frustrating all the cancellations. Here is a link to future mission Chronology of Lunar and Planetary Exploration (Future Missions).
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/upcoming.html
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/chrono_future.html

Past history probe page
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/projects.html

Here is the info on project and of it's cancellation of the Europa Orbiter.

A proposed follow-on mission to Galileo that would have probed Europa's surface with a radar sounder in an attempt to determine the thickness of the ice and locate any ice-water interface. Other instruments would have included an imaging device capable of resolving surface detail as small as 100 meters and an altimeter for accurately measuring the topography and movements of the surface in response to tidal stresses. The Europa Orbiter would have served as a precursor to other projects to sample the Europan surface and, eventually, to penetrate the top layers of ice to discover exactly what lies underneath (see Europa, future probes).

Orginally it was looked at for just a delay launch instead year 2010.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/europa-orbitor-00a1.html

However, the Orbiter was eliminated from the Adminstration's FY2003 budget to Congress. Presumably, considering the potential importance of this spacecraft in the search for life elsewhere, there will be an attempt to revive it, or some new version of it, in the future.

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#13 2004-10-24 13:34:27

John Creighton
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

An interview With Boeing

The Boeing Company is no stranger to designing and building complex space systems. So when NASA went shopping for contractors in its effort to begin construction of Project Prometheus the agency's first nuclear powered space mission of note as the JIMO (Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter) they knocked on Boeing's door.

The project’s first mission is called the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter (JIMO) program, and the proposed vehicle would offer 100 to 1,000 times more power than current solar or radioisotope-powered spacecraft.

The Boeing-led engineering team comprises several industry partners, including Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp., BWX Technology Inc., Honeywell, Teledyne and General Dynamic Electric Boat. For the past five decades BWXT has supplied nuclear reactors to the U.S. Navy with an unprecedented operational and safety record. And Ball is NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory second-largest contractor, with on-going projects throughout NASA’s Space Science enterprise, including the Deep Impact and Kepler Discovery missions for JPL, extensive hardware subsystems and instruments on the Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity, and major astrophysics spacecraft including the Space Infrared Telescope Facility and the James Webb Space Telescope.

Mills said Project Prometheus offers the chance to revolutionize the nature of space exploration. “I’m excited about the exploration of Jupiter’s icy moons and unlocking their secrets. Understanding the conditions for life in our solar system is one of the great adventures of our time.”

While nuclear power remains controversial, in order for the new space vision to be successful the use of nuclear power has to be seriously explored, Mills added. “This technology is a part of America’s new space vision and is key to implementing that vision for future exploration initiatives that NASA is undertaking.”

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#14 2004-10-24 15:59:46

John Creighton
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

More quotes

Terry Murphy of Boeing responded by saying, as Joe said...Prometheus is really divided into three pieces. The RTG and NRA's technologies. Relative to the Brayton we finished our first phase on that contract we're pushing forward, there's still a lot of work to be done but it will look very promising for this type of application. The idea would be to put multiple units on a 'JIMO' and have a fault tolerant approach to it.

As Terry said, you can have several redundant additional units so that in a case there's one or more failures because they run out of 'life' then you can start-up an adjacent unit and you can get to your lifetime and mission reliability that way. Of course, part of the development program would be during this time frame, to test the Brayton to generate as much data as we could on the lifetime performance as part of this certification for space that Terry was talking about. That is sort of what the NRA's are about. To move the technology forward, we understand the closed Brayton data around tailoring it to this application and getting the data necessary to certify the system for space flight.

from:
An Interview With Boeing

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#15 2004-10-24 18:59:55

Stephen
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Registered: 2004-01-16
Posts: 68

Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

I am just curious to know how people feel that this project arose from the cancellation of a europa mission. Europa is much more interesting scientifically and cost less but Prometheus is much more interesting technologically.

On the one hand I wish they could have sent the Europa Orbiter. JIMO might send back more science, but the Europa Orbiter would have got there sooner, allowing results to get back sooner, which in turn might have allowed serious planning to begin on the next stage (and the one  I imagine many people would probably be more excited about): burrowing into the ice of Europa to investigate the putative ocean there. Now that the Europa Orbiter is dead and JIMO is the great white hope, I don't expect to see any such mission launch before 2020 at the earliest.

On the other hand, JIMO would certainly be a far more ambitious mission. I notice, for example, that the science definition team are pushing hard for it to carry a "Europa Surface Science Package", referring to it as a "critical element of the baseline mission", which I've been kinda hoping would be included. It would (hopefully) also open the way for similiar missions to the other gas giants.


======
Stephen

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#16 2004-10-24 19:13:47

John Creighton
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

On the other hand, JIMO would certainly be a far more ambitious mission. I notice, for example, that the science definition team are pushing hard for it to carry a "Europa Surface Science Package", referring to it as a "critical element of the baseline mission", which I've been kinda hoping would be included. It would (hopefully) also open the way for similiar missions to the other gas giants.

That is a good pint JIMO should have a very powerful engine. Maybe it could even take along a small hitchhiker probe.

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#17 2004-10-24 19:19:49

Stephen
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Now that the Europa Orbiter is dead and JIMO is the great white hope, I don't expect to see any [Europa diving] mission launch before 2020 at the earliest.

Actually, on a closer reading of the SDT report even 2020 seems way too optimistic. The report gives (p49) a flight time for JIMO of 5-8 years and mission life-time while in Jupiter orbit of 4-6 years, so (assuming a JIMO departure around 2011/2) I would not expect any Europa diving mission to leave much before 2030, if not 2035. (A diagram in the report's Appendix 4 (p67) does not have JIMO achieving Europan orbit until 2023.)


======
Stephen

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#18 2004-10-25 07:23:51

SpaceNut
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Yup very fustrating time lines for all of the vision IMO probes to explore or for manned missions to say nothing about all the new rocket designs, habitat and more from NASA way to slow.

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#19 2004-10-25 10:08:34

Palomar
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

I would not expect any Europa diving mission to leave much before 2030, if not 2035.

*Geez!  Why doesn't someone just stab me in the heart right now with a sharp metal stake and get it over with??

I don't want to have to wait until I'm a freakin' senior citizen for this!!!   :bars2:    :rant:   :angry:

--Cindy  sad


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#20 2004-10-26 06:31:05

Shaun Barrett
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From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
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Posts: 2,843

Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Cindy:-

I don't want to have to wait until I'm a freakin' senior citizen for this!!!  :bars2:   :rant:   :angry:

    YOU should worry!!!   :bars:


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#21 2004-11-02 08:20:36

Palomar
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Hamilton Sundstrand

*Partnered with N-G, will be key player in tech development of JIMO "for several critical systems for the spacecraft."  Says launch of JIMO still set for 2015.  <relief>  Hopefully will be.  H-S is a subsidiary of United Technologies, based in Windsor Locks, CT.  Has been a "supplier" to NASA for 4 decades. 

Hamilton Sundstrand's proposed effort includes developing technology for the JIMO Brayton Power Conversion System, Power Conditioning and Distribution Subsystem, Heat Rejection subsystem and for the Xenon propellant tanks.

Shaun...I deserved that bit of chastisement.   :;):   

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#22 2004-11-03 06:48:13

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

Yup and here is some more about it with regareds to the shell game that the large aerospace companies play. One contractor hiring another contractor to do the job just driving up the cost.

Sundstrand gets role in NASA project

Sundstrand was tapped by Northrop Grumman Space Technology, the prime contractor on the first phase of NASA's $400 million Project Prometheus, to provide the power conversion and power distribution systems and propellant tanks.
Hamilton Sundstrand will design power systems for NASA's next-generation spacecraft -- nuclear-powered vehicles that will be capable of sending back more and higher quality data from the deepest recesses of space than ever before.

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#23 2004-11-03 09:55:07

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

More quotes from the above article:

On board the probe Grumman and its partners will help build will be a small nuclear reactor -- no bigger than a 5-gallon bucket -- that will provide energy to power highly responsive electric thrusters and instruments.

Unlike conventional power systems, this one will allow the probe to have a large amount of power -- potentially hundreds of times more power than in current interplanetary spacecraft

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#24 2004-11-22 15:10:25

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posts: 2,401
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Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

So what does everyone think of the mapping orbits? Is equatorial good enough or should they spend more money so it can do polar orbits of the moon. What would this mean in the context of the other programs. It could be a good excuse to build heavy lift but I would hate to see the program killed. Is there anyway they could build it for current lift capacity and then upgrade it if heavy lift became available?

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#25 2004-11-22 15:17:30

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: JIMO - Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter

They ought to build the thing with two options in mind:

-Extra ion drive fuel/power for polar orbiting and a heavy Centaur boost stage, both to ride integrated on a single HLLF

-Extra ion drive fuel/power for polar orbiting, and use the TLI stage for an EELV-centric Lunar mission and launch each one seperatly.


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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