Musicians & musical instruments

Palomar · 2004-10-04 17:37:05

*Oh goody...the neighbors' teenage son has apparently decided to join or start a garage band. Except they have no garage, so right now I'm listening to the befuddled attempts at drumming and strumming from beyond the rock wall fence. :-\ It better stop by 9:00 p.m. because 4:15 a.m. rolls around awfully quick.

This presents me an opportunity to start a thread I've been considering for a while.

Is anyone here a musician or do you play a musical instrument? I took piano lessons as a kid. Didn't stick much; I can still play the piano to an extent (a very limited extent). Took clarinet in junior high band. Wanted to play the flute, but the music teacher thought I would be better suited for the clarinet. Nice instrument to hear, but hell to play.

Anyone else?

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-10-05 05:41:17

I played the clarinet briefly in junior high, but didn't stick with it for long. Reeds and spit valves and that annoying screech resulting from a complete lack of the necessary skills and the desire to acquire them. Wasn't for me.

So I remained musically dormant until shortly after high school, when I was one of three members of an obscure Detroit-based rap/industrial/metal group. :laugh: We all became reasonably proficient with a second-hand Korg keyboard and one almost passable guitar player, but generally our primary "instrument" was whatever cobbled-together monster computer we had at the time allowing us to mix the lackluster use of instruments into something close to what we'd had in mind to start with, and vocals of course.

We played a few live shows, got a small but loyal fan base (some as far as Australia!) and even managed to get one of our songs played on a certain well known cable station. :;):

CNN.

Ah, good times. The Detroit underground music scene offers all sorts of interesting experiences. Most of them borderline unfit for print, but you definately meet some characters.

Palomar · 2004-10-05 06:16:13

Reeds and spit valves and that annoying screech

*Lol!!! Yep...and that annoying screech always crept in somewhere during a recital no matter how hard you tried to get it 100% right. :-\ I remember a particularly loud, horrid screech while playing for my parents' church...I think my face turned beet red. How embarrassing.

So I remained musically dormant until shortly after high school, when I was one of three members of an obscure Detroit-based rap/industrial/metal group.
We played a few live shows, got a small but loyal fan base (some as far as Australia!) and even managed to get one of our songs played on a certain well known cable station...CNN

*Rather impressive.

The Detroit underground music scene offers all sorts of interesting experiences. Most of them borderline unfit for print, but you definately meet some characters.

*Based on what I've heard (and Seattle too), I can just about imagine.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-10-05 08:26:35

*Lol!!! Yep...and that annoying screech always crept in somewhere during a recital no matter how hard you tried to get it 100% right.

I seem to recall trying for the most horrid screech on a couple of occasions. ??? Surely I'm not remembering that right...

*Rather impressive.

Well, we never really made any money with it. Lots of free drinks... We were really just making fun of the cliches of the local scene, though oddly few seemed to realize it. Which was funny in itself.

Rxke · 2004-10-05 11:11:17

Still cant play two notes straight, but been in 3 bands, the first as 'assorted metalware'-percussionist and sound-effects errrr... add-on (was half metal-industrial-rock...) I even made some 'instruments!' One was basically a corrugated tube (like the vacuumcleanerstype) connected to a bucket-like device with springs and plates in it, and a variety of contactmikes on the inside. Unbelievably versatile thing, only downside was i blacked-out or even fainted after using it for more than five minutes (You had to blow/scream in it quite hard, and sometimes you just forget to inhale again, I guess, heh.) My favourite instrument was a diskgrinder, with disks for concrete, great sound, greater sparks!
Anyway the band still exists, but has evolved over the years to something completely different.

Then an eperimental funk-rock band, instrumental, we also made movies etc... Again i did whacky soundeffects, mainly through old terminally detuned analog synths etc. Was a bit too arty-farty too my taste, though...

And the last one... Was some kind of anti-band, no one could play ... Some people had never been on a podium etc, but we went 500%, doing something utterly insanely loud and noisy... Apocalyptic stuff...
One guy was just standing there, on the podium, wearing a flack jacket, warpaint, an uzi, the stuff... Halfway through the first gig, he calmly pulls out a huuuge pistol, and starts shooting in the crowd (It was an alarm-pistol, of course, but some people almost sh*t their pants, heehee...)
And a very offensive, long name. Gigs-or-songs (we just tried to stop at roughly the same point to give impression we had songs (we hadn't, never having rehearsed before the first gig... or ever after...) lasted between 10 and 25 minutes, We had some diehard fans, though.... And some black-metal peeps that threatened us, even got violent repeatedly because they thought we were making fun of them... (Who? We?)

Palomar · 2004-10-05 11:28:35

And some black-metal peeps that threatened us, even got violent repeatedly

*Yeah, I've seen those types...not in person, mind you. Black/death metal. Some band from Scandinavia -- extremely misanthropic and dripping with genuine hatred -- turned on each other. All of them are dead except one, or all of them died in the mutual killfest. Can't recall the name of the band (not sure I want to). I also can't recall how I came across the story, which I believe I read in a magazine. I saw a photo of them during the peak of their involvement; I can't think of many other photos which has produced such a reaction in me -- I felt afraid; goosebumps, cold water down the spine, you name it. They looked like psychotic, deranged, vicious loons. They didn't intend to look that way -- they simply DID look that way.

I guess the little group of rabid dogs finally destroyed itself.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-10-05 11:42:56

I even made some 'instruments!' One was basically a corrugated tube (like the vacuumcleanerstype) connected to a bucket-like device with springs and plates in it, and a variety of contactmikes on the inside.

:laugh: I can just imagine the sound that made.

We had to make do with a portable mixing console, complete with an old pentium computer and a crude CD turntable, all built into an old barbecue grill. I was going to rig up a burner in there so we could actually cook hotdogs during shows, but we quit doing anything around that time.

One guy was just standing there, on the podium, wearing a flack jacket, warpaint, an uzi, the stuff... Halfway through the first gig, he calmly pulls out a huuuge pistol, and starts shooting in the crowd (It was an alarm-pistol, of course, but some people almost sh*t their pants, heehee...)

Twisted, and yet I find myself grinning.

We couldn't get away with that in Detroit of course, the crowd would shoot back.

Gigs-or-songs (we just tried to stop at roughly the same point to give impression we had songs (we hadn't, never having rehearsed before the first gig... or ever after...)

I feel much better about my own endeavors now.

Seriously, to go on stage in front of any group of people while having no idea what you're going to do is ballsy.

Grypd · 2004-10-05 15:15:39

I have to admit I have tried the bagpipes but I did not practice enough to get the coordination right but I was half decent with the chanter

Rxke · 2004-10-06 01:43:39

Black/death metal. Some band from Scandinavia -- extremely misanthropic and dripping with genuine hatred -- turned on each other.

One of them ate part of his friend's brains, probably because he lacked enough grey matter himself!
I thought the whole case was rather interesting... They saw themselves as some kind of "back to your root"s gang: dismissing the 'invading' Christian way of life, going back to their Viking ancestry... I could half understand that way of thinking. But they took it waaaaaay too far...
When those Blackmetal bands play at the club i visit, there's almost always trouble, some of those bands are so convinced they are 'evil' they destroy infrastructure to prove it, but that's not evil, just childish..

Rxke · 2004-10-06 01:52:23

We couldn't get away with that in Detroit of course, the crowd would shoot back.

Well.. the major cause for pannic was because the guy is widely known for carrying a pistol (a real one) which is *extremely* uncommon in Belgium...
Some people thought he lost his cool or something...

Oh, one gig we had a guest-guitarist who was completely naked, and had a little plastic skull hanging from his pierced thingy... Although his guitar hung before it, *that* was more shocking to *a lot* of people... We got a lot of shocked comments, even from some 'evil' blackmetal guys!

(I just realise how crazily silly we were... We thought it was all twisted fun, without thinking too much about it... but some people really didn't want to talk to us for sometimes months after a gig, heehee..)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-10 11:59:46

Let me apologize for bumping such an old thread but some threads were lost during the crash and music and culture does feature as a topic

South Korea launches first lunar orbiter, BTS song to be used to test wireless internet link
https://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=359484

The LA Musician Who Helped Design a Microphone for Mars
https://www.wired.com/story/musician-wh … hone-mars/
How an obsession with space led to a partnership on the Perseverance rover—and the chance we could finally hear what our planetary neighbor sounds like.

Rover audio reveals different rules for sound on Mars. Based on noises from the rover's laser and helicopter, the speed of sound is much slower on Mars than on Earth. On Earth, sounds typically travel at about 767 mph, but on Mars, high-pitched sounds move at 559 mph and low-pitched ones at 537 mph.

https://astronomy.com/news/2022/08/mars … red-planet

Another discussion

Culture, craft and art on Mars.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8234

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-09 16:40:58)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-21 13:05:29

Will the music of Mars be a human thing the human vocal or an electronic artificial intelligence creation?

A lot of instruments might be 3-d printed or maybe PVC or Bamboo?

Flute and Sound Calculators and Tools on Flutopedia
https://www.flutopedia.com/calculators.htm

Calculations
https://kassaflutes.com/flute-calculator

Tube Lengths
To start building our flute, we need to know how long, initially, to make the tube that will become our flute — in other words, we need to know the effective tube length (Leff
) for our lowest note (the note that will play with all holes closed). To find that initial length, we need the frequency of the lowest note, and the speed of sound at the temperature in which we are working. With those two, we can find the wavelength (λ) of the note by dividing the speed of sound (vsound) by the frequency (f
):
λ = vsound ÷ f
For example, if the lowest note were middle C (261.63 Hz), we would take the speed of sound (34600 cm/second) and divide by the frequency, 261.63, to get its wavelength:
34600 / 261.63 = 132.25 cm
Finally, to arrive at our effective tube length Leff
we simply divide in half (for a flute that is open at both ends):
(34600 / 261.63) × .5 = 66.125 cm
So, for a theoretical flute that was intended to have middle C as its lowest note, we would start by making the flute about 66 cm, and then slowly trim it down from there until the flute produced the desired note…thus arriving at our actual length (our variable A
)

Making the Japanese Shakuhachi Flute
http://mujitsu.com/howtomakeshakuhachi.pdf

'How to make a wooden flute pt.2 - TUNNING'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVvG3QhOk5E

‘Space Oddity’: The Story Behind David Bowie’s Influential Song
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/ … g-history/

Using NASA spacecraft data, scientists and musicians turn interstellar space into music
https://www.postguam.com/entertainment/ … 6b214.html

NASA Turns James Webb Images Into Beautiful Music, Uploads It to SoundCloud
https://futurism.com/the-byte/nasa-jame … soundcloud

They have taught elephants to paint...so one might wonder Did primitive humans paint and sing before they could talk?

Animals on Earth sing, Whales have song, Birds, Singing animals insect like Cricket or Toadfish singing in waters Antelope Squirrel sings also or Monkey or Gibbons found to sing together

Do animals sing in space? Soon we could have more Space stations coming NASA proposes using lasers and spacecraft to tackle space junk, more talk of people on day working on the Moon and Mars.
Perhaps they will have musical instruments or there could be human voice singing notes.
Will the voice be auto-tuned and artificial or perhaps draw upon older cultures on Earth. How different will the vocals of Mars be?

Genshin Impact an action role-playing game developed and published by a China video game company

How does Berg use Sprechgesang in Wozzeck?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXBVu1s-5E0

Yun Jin Chinese Opera VA is SURPRISED the opera song went viral in Genshin Impact (translated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROE_IHqL2dY

Which animals sing?
https://www.livescience.com/do-animals- … birds-sing

'Other than birds?'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-21 13:14:21)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-22 13:24:54

New research shows how cultural transmission shapes the evolution of music

https://phys.org/news/2023-03-cultural- … music.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-04-01 12:02:38

Taliban close women-run Afghan station for playing music

https://apnews.com/article/dc2ab03642cc … 031e48a032

A women-run radio station in Afghanistan's northeast has been shut down for playing 'music' during the demonic terroristic month of Ramadan when mohammedans pray to some dead war monger pedophile terrorist of Arabia from 1,400 years ago, when educated people were forced to write the words of moohamamad they wrote a self admitted mad man who prayed to a Moongod passed a bunch of these jihadi Laws for others to follow. It is noted some people go more crazy during Ramadan, Deprised of Food, not allowed Eat until the Sun goes down and Forced to Constantly go to a Mosque listening to more wailing and islamist propaganda they can go 'crazy' and sometimes go 'Sudden Jihad Syndrome'.

Moezuddin Ahmadi, the director of Info and islamist 'Culture' said the station violated the Sharia Laws and regulations of the Islamist Emirate several times by broadcasting haram sinful concepts that offended their pedophile terrorist al-Lah Moongod such as songs and 'music'.

Sudden Jihad Syndrome is a term coined by Daniel Pipes to describe Muslims that suddenly or unexpectedly turn against civilized, Western society and engage in acts of terror.

Urban Dictionary: Sudden Jihad Syndrome
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term= Sudden Jihad Syndrome

10 Homemade Musical Instruments That Rocked The World
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/ … struments/
From custom guitars to truly bizarre contraptions

'A 3D Printed Violin that DOESN’T SUCK!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3uRfBnJG3E

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-04-01 12:10:30)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-05-12 04:10:47

Will musicians of Mars get sued for 'copyright'?

Record Companies do try to sue and shutdown other songs or take earnings but at the same time the movement of Open Free Culture is stronger than ever, people fighting against copyrights they want Art open and free, heriatge that is owned by the people of Earth they want to remain part of 'public domain'
Music sample that are free to use or Licensed under a Creative Commons, Paintings and illustration owned by all or Writing where the Artist is long dead and it belongs to all as part of our history.
The groups are not 'Pirates' but fight what they see as injustice of legitimate channels getting shut down, there are also online musicians teaching and sometimes reference other art or songs in what is considered 'Fair Use'

3D-printed violins put music into more hands
https://techxplore.com/news/2022-12-3d- … music.html

Some listeners will say a hand crafted wooden instruments sound "more warm" or richer than plastic or a golden flute sounds more full and gives a far more lovely sound than a penny whistle, is this psychology of knowing an instrument is 'more expensive' or does the instrument make a better musical note?

I would argue that a very good player can make even an average instrument sound of 'good' quality

$50 vs $1000 vs $5000 Classical Guitar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgyDj7vo2ck

Can You Hear The Difference Between Expensive And Cheap Flutes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8WQy4nReAM

Comparison of the Acoustic Performance of Wooden Violins and Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer Violins Through a Modal Study by Finite Elements Method and Effective Masses
https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/ … -of-Wooden
Both models were validated against experimental studies developed by other authors. It is concluded that for instruments with the same geometry, a sonorous superiority of the wood over the CFRP was evidenced, which leads to further reinforce the unique, enigmatic, and mythical behavior of violins made of sonorous woods such as the Stradivarius violins.

Photos of the insides of musical instruments spark imaginations
https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-and … /102323344

Open pictures
https://www.publicdomainpictures.net/en … hp?a=96415
Internet Archive makes 1.4 million books available for free online amid the coronavirus crisis
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/internet-a … ks-online/
NASA makes their entire media library publicly accessible and copyright free
https://www.diyphotography.net/nasa-mak … ight-free/
The 150 Best Podcasts to Enrich Your Mind
https://www.openculture.com/great-podcasts
Understanding Free Cultural Works
https://creativecommons.org/share-your- … freeworks/

Long before AI and Chatbots became a 'current thing' Record Companies already had their machines scanning for clips from a movie or screenshot of a video game or they scanned video channels and social media sites for 'notes' or beats that sounded similar or the same, or scanned for a chord progression

'Ed Sheeran shows on his guitar how he won his copyright lawsuit'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcCKlsTgjeM

'Why the Ed Sheeran lawsuit makes no sense'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpi4d3YM79Q

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-05-12 04:19:46)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-09 16:39:16

Former ISS Commander Chris Hadfield Hails India's Aditya-L1 Solar Mission

https://www.republicworld.com/science/s … eshow.html

Even though music on the radio might seem like noise to some perhaps it has progressed in some cultural way, an impossible scifi movie song is now sung by humans
and I remember being massively impressed when I heared that Mongolians would sing a chord or power chord using only their voice which in traditional singing even during imrpov should normally generate one tone at one time but Mongol culture had an ancient lesson of how to generate different sound within their own body or skull or vocal chords, their ability to make a chord with one voice mixes Low chest (modal) and head (light, or falsetto) register

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8UNpd8xl4M
,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=785qBy7IQaQ

a Mongolian guy even playing modern music, he plays with horse hair

and visually.... it looks like Mars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXbDQ0_xCgk

Cady Coleman playing the flute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9uBPwP7DQc

For those unfamiliar with instruments a flute it is unlike a penny whistle it is like blowing across the top of a bottle while holding posture with levers and holes or Button Joint 'Keys' when pressed act as human fingers covering that close upon the holes

I wonder if Cady had to focus her posture into the flute as inhale and exhale of wind in a particular direction might even change your position and place within that space and thus change your tone blow sound technique

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-09 17:19:01)

Terraformer · 2023-09-10 02:40:39

I mostly sing. Tried picking up the bass guitar but I am terrible at sticking with things long enough to learn them. Have a ukelele I keep meaning to practice with. But singing is most convenient, and enjoyable. Especially when belting out villain songs. Just annoying that my range is a couple notes short to do Let It Go entirely in modal voice, though I can do it almost entirely I think if I use the Broadway version which is dropped by a semitone. Just need falsetto to hit the E5 at the end

tahanson43206 · 2023-09-10 06:28:41

Thanks to Mars_B4_Moon for bringing this early thread back into view.

And! Thanks to Terraformer for reminding us that we all come equipped with a full range musical instrument.

Some cultures seem to do better at encouraging singing than others.

The topic is short enough so I read it from the top, and thus ran into the reports of extreme experiments that (I hope) have run their course.

One note by Mars_B4_Moon caught my eye ... that was the report of the musician collaborating on design of a microphone for Mars, and the discovery of slower speeds of sound there. Carbon dioxide gas is the medium, and pressure is very low.

Inside habitats, if the recommendations of RobertDyck are adopted, the 3-5-8 rule will apply, and pressure will be .5 Bar.

I would not have thought to ask this before reading the post by Mars_B4_Moon, but I wonder what the acoustic characteristics of the Mars Habitat environment will be like? It is possible to determine those characteristics with great accuracy on Earth, so I hope someone will be inspired to find out.

It is also possible there are software codes available to simulate the habitat conditions, and derive acoustic characteristics;

The research may already have been done, and results may be available in the Internet.

(th)

Terraformer · 2023-09-11 12:44:24

Damn Let It Go (original version) is the hardest song I have ever sung. No wonder they had to do multiple takes when recording it. No Good Deed is significantly easier... and so are the other two Elsa songs, Into The Unknown and Show Yourself.

I hope I can find someone to duet with at university. Preferably a soprano What is this feeling...

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-24 09:16:48

I wonder if musicians of Earth will take their music traditions and skills from various music cultures to the offworlds, the new planet could have a new music culture born, maybe audio engineers or guitar players would arrive, just as the NewWorld of North America and South America seen new styles of music which could have been a fusion influence of sounds from the old world?

Music notation or musical notation has been around a long time, there have been many methods tried, some have vanished over time but notation in truth is any system used to visually represent aurally perceived music, it can be from ancient Korea or Greek civilization or Arabia or Hebrew Jewish text of prayer or some Hindu Indian prayer or Braille music or penny whistle finger hole charts or people's own personal short hand but the more accurate and dominant system today comes from 'Church' the choir and chant music and later the system of Modern staff notation which developed in Baroque and great composers of European Classical Music. Modern Classical guitars do have old world influences and they derive from the Spanish players and instruments of the 15th and 16th century, then Early romantic guitars came from Austria and Italy and the players from Latin America added their own style and with electronics and the USA and innovation came now methods and amplification, the "Frying Pan" idea from the Swiss-America and soon came Hawaii electric guitars, Electric Blues Guitars and Electric Guitars for Rock music.

This is an interesting question and answer for anyone who tried play a guitar or read music

Why don't guitar chords and staff notations match each other?
https://music.stackexchange.com/questio … each-other

The G7 chord in root position on a fretboard diagram for guitar looks like this:
The correct representation of the notes on the fretboard when written on the staff is G, D, F, and then B (a 10th higher).
I wonder why the note B is more than octave higher than G on the fretboard whereas on the staff B is only a 3rd higher?

Good question! They do!

The situation you're running into is that your chord diagram doesn't match the G7 you've provided on your music staff.

On the staff you provided, the notes are all separated by the distance of a third- G B D F. I have provided a picture of what the G7 on the staff is telling us to play on the guitar:

The chord diagram that you have provided is of a completely different layout on the staff. The yellow fretboard diagram you have shown will look like this, as per the staff:

the guy responding user 'MLunzy' seems to know a lot about music rudiments and musicology, classical-guitar, chord-theory

He even provides pictures of what notes should be wrote down instead and what chord to play and provides a photo of the finger positions

Finally, "root position" only means that the note the chord is named after is in the bass: The root note! You can put that note in the bass and play the remaining notes any which way you want, as long as the "root note" is in the bass.
I hope this helps!

https://music.stackexchange.com/questio … each-other

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-26 06:04:37

Spotify will end service in Uruguay due to bill requiring fair pay for artists
https://mixmag.net/read/spotify-end-ser … dment-news

Also an issue worldwide of Fbook or u tube type social media platforms having accounts banned and getting their content deleted, some might even try to copyright a 'scale' or minor key which have been recorded since Classical Music or the time of the Greeks.

Rick Beato
https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speech … airuse.htm
Statement to a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Intellectual Property re Music Education, Fair Use and YouTube

Out of my 750 YouTube videos, 254 have been demonetized and 43 have been blocked or taken down. For the record, I've never had a copyright strike filed against me by YouTube.3
This brings me back to fair use. Two elements of fair use that I believe covers teaching videos have to do with the amount of the copyright[ed] material used and whether or not it harms the copyright holder's ability to profit from their original work. I would argue that if a video using a brief excerpt of music to demonstrate a compositional/production technique, [it] should be covered by -- under the fair use guidelines.
The rules governing the application and interpretation of fair use should be shouldered by all parties, not only the content creator. The concept of fair use is meaningless when frivolous or random interpretations allow a team of "searchers," typically employed by a major label, harass creators for content that falls under the legal definition of fair use.
Now, a clear-cut case of [music] piracy is one thing, but there have to be examples -- have to be exemptions for fair use. One of my recent music theory videos called "The Mixolydian Mode" was manually claimed by Sony ATV because I played ten seconds of a Beatles song on my acoustic guitar to demonstrate how the melody is derived from this scale. This is an obvious example of fair use, I would argue.

the idea of fair use

Senate Hearing Explores the Intersection of Fair Use and the DMCA: Part II
https://copyrightalliance.org/intersect … a-part-ii/

Rick Beato’s testimony did not focus on issues related to political campaigns, and he instead spoke more generally about fair use as applied to the DMCA. Beato operates a self-described educational YouTube channel, which consists of interviews, videos on music theory, film scoring, and analysis of the music elements of famous songs. He claimed that these videos, which often feature excepts of the songs discussed, are protected by fair use. However, he explained that his videos are often initially demonetized by YouTube because of its automatic filtering system that recognizes the copyrighted songs. When asked by Chairman Tillis whether he contests the claims against his videos, Beato said he has never sent a counternotice and that record companies often remove their initial notices anyway due to his large YouTube following. While it’s understandable that he would not have time to respond with counter notices to a large volume of takedown notices, it wasn’t clear why he has not (or would not) assert a fair use defense in response to takedowns that target some of his most popular videos most would agree are legitimate fair uses.

Robotic software is out there searching for vids to take down or take income from, it is no longer people listening to a song and giving these people copyright strikes.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-11-26 06:05:48)

SpaceNut · 2023-11-26 18:07:29

Singers can all sound like the chipmunks with a little helium.

Having sung during my high school years as a tenor in the NH Allstate music festival selected via try outs for a weekend performance of songs, they were memorable years.

Elementary though to graduation I did learn how to play a variety of musical instruments over the course of time. From clarinet to piano and many more. Played the piano for the graduating class sone as well as the few years before that played my guitar so music seems to be in my blood.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-26 21:47:53

I forgot to respond with ideas of acoustic characteristics of the Mars Habitat but maybe I should add my thoughts

it is probably best to have recordings to do simulation and analyses instead of doing it all live on the fly, to record you need a mic and some kind of program / software or recording device.

Dynamic Microphone, it looks like an old SM-58 which are almost indestructible, you can have Blues and Rocker guys throw them, bang them, drop them in the Ocean or drive even a 'Car' over them and the Mic will probably still work, the grille of the Mic is an old fashioned solid metal mesh. You could probably drop a design like this from a parachute or helicopter on Mars, pick it up plug it in to a power source and it would still work.

'Exploded View'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSLz-VNr4wc

an expensive cardioid type design or omnidirectional super or cardioid mic or something strong and cheap that could be manufactured on Mars? Do you want to capture the Ambient sound or mostly the sound of the object in front of the Mic?

'Microphone Characteristics Vital To Know For Sound Reinforcement'
https://www.prosoundweb.com/microphone- … rcement/3/

2012 slides
Subjective Comparison of Vocal Microphones
https://www.slideshare.net/bradfordswan … slideshare

As soon as you drop a thin ribbon electric or hit some expensive Piezoelectric Microphone it can break, because we are not recording a soundtrack for a block buster movie and not trying to get platinum record award for some multi million Pop star I think the aim should be for a 'Durable' local Microphone on Mars instead of quality

Each Mic would perhaps be tested before and it will be unique like each human ear and have its own frequency response

'How To Design a Microphone Preamplifier' he draws out a Circuit diagram Graphical representation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niZizzHBanA

tahanson43206 wrote:

t I wonder what the acoustic characteristics of the Mars Habitat environment will be like? It is possible to determine those characteristics with great accuracy on Earth, so I hope someone will be inspired to find out.
It is also possible there are software codes available to simulate the habitat conditions, and derive acoustic characteristics;
The research may already have been done, and results may be available in the Internet.
(th)

The Human Ear has its own perception issues, each human ear is different just as our finger prints or wrinkles on our hands are different, a picture or painting that looks nice for someone might look ugly for another so there is your own life experience and art subjectivity about what is nice and ugly. There can be psycho-acoustic issues where a person hears a blowing wind sound or clarinet or plate banging as 'unpleasant' another might find a clarinet and wind sound or restaurant sounds relaxing, older people tend to loose higher frequency and we can take a lot of Bass without it sounding harsh, you or some other person might find the sound of a motor bike effect sound or the sample sound of a bang on a school desk traumatic for example. This opens up a whole world of psychology and philosophy of sound perception and audiology which would be debated for a long time.
On the question of the 'air' itself and the atmosphere is an important medium which changes the quality of sound just as sound changes underwater, but I do not know if any person has pumped out music through speakers in an artificial environment of 3-5-8 atmosphere at a pressure of .5 Bar. Sound travels faster in water but it will be muffled also and it takes more energy to get it going, sound travels faster denser gases than less dense gas so the sound of a musical performance changes in different 'air' the instrument itself will have it own harmonics with its wood and metal and change in air or temperature can also make the instrument itself to sound out of tune.
It can be broken down into a science but to predict what one individual thinks sounds great or hip or cool or scary or noisy will perhaps sometimes be unique to them as an individual.

Each person will have their own perception of what is loud or quiet, for example here is a test 20 - 20,000 Hz Audio Sweep testing the Range of Human Hearing. Each note will have the same energy but your own human ear might hear each note as a different 'Loudness' depending on your perception, there might be Low notes at 20 Hz or 30 Hz you do not hear or high notes 18 K to 20 K you do not hear well, if you are old do not worry about losing sounds from 16,000 Hz - 20,000 Hz this is a natural part of human age as those little hairs of hearing nerves inside your ears get damaged and break over time. There might also be issues with your own headphones or computer speakers, some people might find a note from 800 Hz or maybe 1,100 Hz or 1,250 Hz to be 'Louder' this might be your own personal perception, it can also be a natural part of our human evolution over time that saved us and would keep us alive being sensitive to a snapping twig or a bark from a wild dog or growl from a big wild cat that allowed our ancient ancestors to stay alive but there is a 'human' element to how sounds are perceived.

Audio Sweep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAsMlDptjx8

'What is White Noise Used For in Audio Testing?'

https://www.learningaboutelectronics.co … -audio-lab

White Noise vs Pink Noise Audio Engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkb2yRKJxSc

White noise is the only type of noise that can test how a microphone responds in amplitude proportionally to a signal because it's the only type of noise that provides equal amplitude or strength to all the frequencies in a bandwidth. Pink Noise also contains a wide range of frequencies but the signals in the frequency are not all of equal strength, so they cannot be used to test a microphone's frequency response proportionally.

Here is an Audio Spectrum Chart a Good Audio Engineer might know, it is not an exact science but certain frequency might be perceived as 'Air-ish' or Strong Thud or nice sparkle or 'Warmth' or 'Harsh' or Punchy or described as Edge or Rumble or 'Honky'

https://i.imgur.com/e1RaM5X.jpg

The Red and Black regions in this picture above might be High Harmonics and Sub Harmonics, in pure sound the Harmonic series also overtone series are when waves join up with each other and cancel each other out as they would seen in the fundamental sin wave shape on an Oscilloscope. Real sound waves in nature tend to be more chaotic looking but the mathematics is still the same. The Octave is a doubling of the fundamental frequency, on Earth your 'A' note above the Middle C on Piano has more or less been set as 440 as pitch standard, the next A above would be 880, the Perfect Firth in nature is a 3:2 ratio of the original note, and wave form of the perfect forth 4:3 natural wave from the original root tone.

Or is it 440 Hz...

that can open a whole world of debates

The Treaty of Versailles was a peace treaty

Why Do Orchestras Tune to an A Note?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/547 … rtz-a-note

In 1885, government representatives from Italy, Austria, Hungary, Prussia, Russia, Saxony, Sweden, and Württemberg met to establish their own international standard, agreeing on 435 hertz. The agreement was eventually written into the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.
But not everyone was on board with 435 hertz. The Royal Philharmonic Society in London believed the French pitch standard was pegged to a specific temperature—59°F—and decided to adjust their pitch upward to compensate for their concert halls being warmer than that, settling on 439 hertz. Meanwhile, in 1917, the American Federation of Musicians declared 440 hertz to be the standard pitch in the U.S.

The struggle to hold on…
https://capionlarsen.com/history-pitch/

all of my US Civil War era horns are high pitch (A=454) as are most of my pre 1900 instruments. It is therefore interesting to the brass historian to know the history behind the development of today’s Standard Pitch of A=440 Hz (Hz = Hertz = cycles per second). The following is an attempt to provide a historical sequence of events leading to the worldwide final acceptance today of A=440 Hz as the modern pitch.

In the mid 19th Century, Sir George Smart established a fork for the Philharmonic Society at A=433.2. Forks intended for this vibration number, stamped “Philharmonic,” were sold as late as 1846. But about that year the performing pitch of the Society had reached 452.5. Sir Michael Costa was the conductor 1846—1854, and from his acceptance of that high pitch the fork became known as Costa’s, and its inception was attributed to him, though on insufficient grounds. In 1894, a further rise in the fork to A= 454 Hz was instigated by Sir Charles Halle. The British army was bound by His Majesty’s Rules and Regulations to play at the Philharmonic pitch, and a fork tuned to A=452.5 Hz in 1890 was preserved as the standard for the Military Training School Hall.

In 1939, an international conference recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz. This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 (and was reaffirmed by them in 1975) as ISO 16. The difference between this and the diapason normal is due to confusion over which temperature the French standard should be measured at. The initial standard was A = 439 Hz but this was superseded by A = 440 Hz after complaints that 439 Hz was difficult to reproduce in a laboratory owing to 439 being a prime number.

it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned 'Hitler'

https://jakubmarian.com/the-432-hz-vs-4 … cy-theory/

Particularly in the beginning of the 21st century, many websites and online videos have been published arguing for the adoption of the 432 Hz tuning – often referred to as "Verdi pitch" – instead of the predominant 440 Hz. These claims also include conspiracy theories, related to specious claims of healing properties from 432 Hz pitch, or involving Nazis having favored the 440 Hz tuning

https://globalnews.ca/news/4194106/440- … acy-music/

To confuse matters further, it should be noted that modern symphonies now occasionally tune to A=442Hz!!

Our music even when broken down to standards has an element of randomness and human to it so is not an exact mathematics, some time ago as we began to break it down and understand the mathematics of music it was decided also as a standard to put everything just slightly out of tune so it might harmonize different and sound 'better'. There are competing ideas on tuning, Just intonation for example and equal temperament two different tuning systems, some want to use 'micro tones' and other people don't like having an 'A' note at 440 Hz while Acoustic pianos are usually tuned with the octaves slightly widened. The notes we hear are part of a logarithmic scale. If I were to play all White keys on Piano from C it could give you Do - Re - Mi - Fa - So - La - ti - do' from A note your third note now becomes a minor note and drops to 'Maw' your La becomes a lower Law, and your Ti becomes a Lower 'Te', from A your scale now becomes Do, Re, Maw, Fa, So, Law, Te, Doh, if you play all keys on the Piano Octave to Octave you get 12 semitones, and the semi tone broke down of 100 cents. People who know their scales on Guitar will also know the difference between Major notes and Minor notes. Human perception in-between notes might hear anything between 4–10 cents or if you are a tone deaf rapper for example you might hear no tones and have no ear for chords and hear no melody. In a natural Piano the Octave will be tuned slightly higher but only by 'cents' you perhaps needed to have a great ear to tune all those strings behind each key on the piano, electric pianos are already set with sound samples in the manufacturing factory and commonly tuned using equal temperament. People have experimented with notes and harmony and scales from the Romans to Babylonian to Egyptian to Asians to Greeks, the Pythagoras scale is not that different to our music today but your minor Third will be slightly sadder or 'darker' your Major Third note will be slightly happier or brighter your Perfect Fifth from Greek times will be more or less Perfectly the same as our current Fifth Note the 'So' tone / note while the Octave will be slightly above or brighter.

A lot of mathematicians or astronomers also crossed into musical experimentation 19 Tone Equal Temperament, 23-TET, 22-EDO, 53 equal temperament, Huygens preferred meantone temperament, he liked to put his Fifth note slightly out of tune to make his Thirds more in tune, some people's ears might not even notice the difference in these tunings. A lot of people who do hear music might think micro-tonal music is not really harmonic and weird because they are so used to sounds being tuned a certain way. A film composer might find the sounds useful and use them in scifi film experiments.

Here is an example of micro tones

Paranola - a microtonal piano etude by Zheanna Erose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjcQyQYhA7g

Some might even find a sound like this loud or unpleasant or strange because of what we expect from a keyboard or a bias in our a culture or upbringing

Despite all these conflicting standards and musical ideas, Good Audio Engineer would be able to walk into a room click their finger, stamp, whistle, clap their hands, say the 'One', 'Two' Mic check and begin to see what frequencies might start to feed back, they might also use tools like pump in 'noise' they might even have a graph displayed giving a digital live feed of the acoustic envelop in real time and what what frequency is start to double and what other frequency is starting to cancel other frequency out, that is when the audio engineer starts to twist those dials and press buttons on an analogue or digital mixing desk to fix the sound and make it more pleasant. In the past sometimes a Cathedral was designed to create more natural echo and harmonics, buildings were designed for Monks chanting or made to increase acoustic properties, they were part of Asian Temples and Pagan sites and early Christian to late Baroque churches, when Churches started to have problems with certain notes or tones starting to echo too loud, they would bring in natural fixes, fabric to absorb sound, a type of warm wood acting as diffuser structures working to scatter sound waves and stop frequency from doubling, curtains or blankets used to absorb sound, the human bodies themselves also absorb sound so an audio inspection before a crowd arrives will be different once the place starts to fill up with people, any type of Flat Hard wall and flooring and Parallel Surface usually reflects waves very well just as a ball bounces off a billiards table, these waves can come back and join with each other or cancel each other out just as waves do in the ocean sea.

SpaceNut wrote:

Singers can all sound like the chipmunks with a little helium.

Speed of sound in Earth air = 343 meters / second

Carbon dioxide (0oC) 258
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/spee … _1160.html

Nitrogen 349 at 20 °C, 1 atm

Helium 965 at 0 °C or 1007 at 20 °C, 1 atm

Argon 319 20 °C, 1 atm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_of … e_elements

Helium Opera Singing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYpJSeXZAz0

The whirly tube or bloogle resonator...What Does Helium Actually Do to Your Voice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWJn4uABRUA

a Brazilian social media guy known for his history of music, his comical videos and his ability to play many styles

'Evolution of Music ( 1680 AD - 2017)'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAfmDnkJD60

studied music at the age of 8 piano and violin in private lessons

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-11-29 10:43:32)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-29 09:00:00

Study on acoustic performance of new spiral sound absorbing and insulating metamaterial
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 … 4231219150

For middle and low frequency sound waves, traditional sound absorbing materials require a larger thickness to effectively absorb medium and low frequency sound waves. Traditional sound insulation materials follow the mass law, but when the thickness and quality of the plate increase, the sound insulation effect cannot be produced in the low frequency band

A question asked 13 years ago
https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest … r-pressure
'What is the relation of sound propagation to air pressure?'

The sound intensity is
I=ξ2ω2cρ
where ξ
is the particle displacement, ω the frequency, c the speed of sound and ρ the density of the medium.

If we treat it like radiation the Inverse-Square Law states that the mean-square Sound Pressure Level varies inversely as the square of the distance from the source, a rule of thumb under ideal conditions, a sound level drops 6 dB for every doubling of the distance.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-24 11:50:00

South Korea remakes a tv show Based on French television series Philharmonia

Lee Young-Ae’s Maestra: Strings of Truth: Everything You Need To Know
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/lee … 47538.html

What drives enharmonic note naming?
https://music.stackexchange.com/questio … ote-naming

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