Bill O'Reilly

Palomar · 2004-02-18 08:17:47

*What do you all think of Bill O'Reilly? I watch his program about 2 to 3 times a week. I agree with him more often than I disagree with him. He seems to work at being fair and is rather successful at it...but other times he comes off as arrogant and opinionated (and a bit unfair) -- not that being arrogant and opinionated are necessarily "bad" things.

I am surprised, however, at how religious-oriented he's become over the past few months. He's getting really intense on "Religious America Versus Secular America" and seems to like to whip up that controversy all he can. He seems to believe that secularism is a huge, growing menace to religion (I dare say the opposite sentiment can also be true!). I really don't care for the "Us Versus Them" mentality (since it is always used to drive an agenda). I'm all for tolerance and respecting peoples' rights to choose for themselves and think for themselves.

I'm just curious what folks here think of O'Reilly, your opinions, etc.

I'd especially like Cobra Commander's input, if he'd be so kind as to oblige me (you have lots of interesting political ideas, and I really enjoy reading your posts...even when we disagree!).

--Cindy

Earthfirst · 2004-02-18 10:54:19

I lie to listen to bill O'Reilly some times but I dont like that he is fair and balance. He should attack more be more arrangant it make it more enterianing.

Cobra Commander · 2004-02-18 17:18:27

I actually haven't watched O'Reilly for awhile, but I'll probably tune it tonight now that we're discussing it. I'm starting to miss the way he rips into his guests, and rips on those who refuse to go on the show. While he can be an arrogant blowhard at times, sometimes that's what it takes to get a straight answer.

I'm sure I'll have some more substantive to say after tonight's show, it has a tendecy to irritate me at times. The guests' waffling more than anything.

Cobra Commander · 2004-02-18 19:15:42

Now I remeber why I quit watching. He never asks the questions I blurt out during his interviews. Damn frustrating.

Alt2War · 2004-02-19 12:21:02

Bill is a Tool.

He does not deliver news, he delivers thinly veiled propoganda under the guise of "jerry Springer" styled entertainment.

It seems that people under 30 really have needs to get indignantly angry at people. It's good meme for old fogies.

Palomar · 2004-02-19 12:34:04

It seems that people under 30 really have needs to get indignantly angry at people. It's good meme for old fogies.

*Sorry, Alt, I think that's a totally unfair comment.

I know plenty of people over 30 who are activists, very outspoken...heck, many of the hippies of the 1960s are still screaming their lungs out. Funny...weren't they the very folks who started the "never trust anyone over 30" attitude? And now they're drawing Social Security.

Sure Bill is a tool. Most anything can be a tool. And I see a lot of propoganda coming in from every angle...and not just limited to one age group or etc. Liberals like to think they are more open-minded than conservatives, etc.; I'm not sure that's true. I'm not a conservative, btw. Most every group of people I've encountered tend to gravitate toward group think, "We vs Them," too right to be wrong attitude, etc...(hint: it's not always "just the OTHER guy").

Turning an age milestone doesn't mean your mind has been switched off. As a matter of fact, I'm MUCH MORE outspoken and active about politics and etc. than I was when I was 28.

Hmmm...maybe we shouldn't trust people *under* 30. :;):

I'm 38 and I do not accept the status quo.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: I suspect the persons most "tuned into" the concept of becoming close-minded and apathetic at a specific age milestone are the most likely to fall for it.

Being open-minded can be an ageless prospect. That's an open-minded thought right there, IMO.

Alt2War · 2004-02-19 13:07:29

That comment was intended to be transparently inflamitory.

We all use propoganda.

O'Rilley's personal political position is slightly off center of the GOP. Sometimes he takes positions that do not coincide with the GOP's platform.

Just because his own opinion deviates from the GOP party line, does not mean that he is fair or balanced. He is simply voicing his own opinion.

It is an illusion that because he deviates that he is indeed balanced or evenc critical. He is simply advocating his own opinions in a biased manner.

Cobra Commander · 2004-02-19 16:04:00

Just because his own opinion deviates from the GOP party line, does not mean that he is fair or balanced. He is simply voicing his own opinion.

Isn't that all anyone can do, voice their own opinion? We all have our biases, anyone who claims otherwise is a liar or a fool. Even the most "fair and balanced" analysis will be rejected by those determined not to accept it.

Now to get back on point, after watching some of the O'Reilly Factor last night I see some of the religious aspects Cindy mentioned, and a few inquiries of more regular viewers confirmed the recent trend.

As for my own take on the subject, many of the charges attributed to O'Reilly (among others) have varying degrees of truth. There is an active hostility toward Christianity in particular among certain Leftward elements. I'm not lamenting this, I have no love for the various sects of Christianity, but clearly there is an active and vicious effort to purge religious elements from public life and denigrate it in private life. One must ask why Judge Moore (Alabama, Ten Commandments) was so villified for his flaunting of the law while other judges and officials do the same as a matter of course and are praised, see the current brouhaha in San Francisco for one of many examples. I would argue that it is in fact the judiciary itself that is the priesthood we should be attacking, but that is beside the point. There is a sharp religious divide in this country and it isn't even religion vs. secular but a focus on Christianity. Any other religious practice is praised as an expression of diversity and tolerance, while Christianity is the creed of closed-minded, racist, white oppressors bent on the destruction of everyone, and this isn't a new development though it has recently grown more hostile. I recall one day early in my experience of the public school system, first grade perhaps, yes, I wasn't always an obnoxios ranting right-wing goon. Well, I probably was, but shorter, anyway, while prayer in school was off-limits, a general introduction to other religions was deemed "good." We were instructed, among other things, to pray to Mecca! You must repeat the pillars of Islam and know what Ganesha represents, but if you pull out that King James Bible you'd better get your butt down to the principal's office. At the time I didn't know any better, but in retrospect it had some important lessons. Among them, don't expect consistency. "Authority" and "hypocrisy" are intertwined was another.

Personally I find this offensive, and I am not easily offended. It isn't the attacks on a particular religion that bothers me, I really couldn't care less if one superstition or another disappears forever, but those who attack Christianity on all sides deny that it is their intent, rather some other motive is invoked. it's dishonest and dishonorable, casting more shame on themselves than their targets. If there is a hell, they're goin'. Save me seat in the back, I'll bring the brewskis.

Hmmm...maybe we shouldn't trust people *under* 30.

But we're still such novices at the art of deception, why start trusting us when we've learned all the tricks?

Alt2War · 2004-02-19 16:24:09

My Freshman year in my Tennessee Public Highschool, during orientation, the principal declared "This is a Public High School"

I had been disciplined countless times in that school for having books in my posession about Jewish Mysticism, Hinduism, and Mythology.

I did not see anyone attacking christianity there.

Palomar · 2004-02-20 10:31:51

There is a sharp religious divide in this country and it isn't even religion vs. secular but a focus on Christianity. Any other religious practice is praised as an expression of diversity and tolerance, while Christianity is the creed of closed-minded, racist, white oppressors bent on the destruction of everyone, and this isn't a new development though it has recently grown more hostile. I recall one day early in my experience of the public school system, first grade perhaps, yes, I wasn't always an obnoxios ranting right-wing goon. Well, I probably was, but shorter, anyway, while prayer in school was off-limits, a general introduction to other religions was deemed "good."

*I do recall O'Reilly being majorly p.o.'d (rightfully so, IMO) over the Christmas holiday concerning the issue of Christmas being a Federally recognized holiday, yet nativity scenes are outlawed and any overtly religious imagery is attacked, etc.

I do see how this would tick off Christians, and it does seem absurd (it's the commemoration of someone's alleged birth date [never mind the history of the Catholic Church establishing that specific date -- December 25 -- so close to the winter solstice, i.e. to encourage pagan converts]). It's a Federal holiday yet the reason for the Federal holiday -- any imagery, scenes, etc., -- are illegal on public property?

I see his point. And yes, there does seem to be a correlation (backlash) between Christianity and whites (some folks apparently conveniently forgetting Christianity originated in the Middle East...as did Judaism and Islam). However, I am not sure of the EXTENT of this correlation or backlash.

In trying to be fair (all the way around): As a kid growing up in an intense Christian environment (fundamentalist), I do know that *some* (not all, of course) Christians like to cry foul and "persecution!" when they are simply not getting their way about something, others aren't seeing it from their point of view, etc. Those sorts really hurt the Christians who aren't alarmist, reactionary, etc. I've essentially shut myself off from the Christian world altogether for many years now, so it is obviously difficult for me to gauge what is what within the *current* Christian realm (never mind all the various sects, denominations, etc...Christianity is so complex).

But O'Reilly's anger at the Christmas situation is spot-on, IMO. I'd feel the same way, if I were a Christian.

I am wondering how Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" is going to fuel all this. There's already bombastic reaction all over the place (as most folks know).

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-02-20 16:45:18

My Freshman year in my Tennessee Public Highschool, during orientation, the principal declared "This is a Public High School"
I had been disciplined countless times in that school for having books in my posession about Jewish Mysticism, Hinduism, and Mythology.
I did not see anyone attacking christianity there.

Oh. Then the whole point is invalidated. Never mind. :;):

In trying to be fair (all the way around): As a kid growing up in an intense Christian environment (fundamentalist), I do know that *some* (not all, of course) Christians like to cry foul and "persecution!" when they are simply not getting their way about something, others aren't seeing it from their point of view, etc. Those sorts really hurt the Christians who aren't alarmist, reactionary, etc. I've essentially shut myself off from the Christian world altogether for many years now, so it is obviously difficult for me to gauge what is what within the *current* Christian realm (never mind all the various sects, denominations, etc...Christianity is so complex).

Yes, some Christians can be extremely hostile to differing viewpoints. Particularly when you don't want to be converted or otherwise be force-fed the religion. But sometimes there really is persecution to a degree.

Every Christmas I run into at least one of those "Jesus is the reason for the season" types. I retort with "actually the modern Christmas holiday is the result of the Roman Catholic church co-opting the traditional Celtic and Germanic winter solstice festivals turned into an orgy of consumerism by retailers."

They hate that.

A good friend of mine is a fairly recent convert to one form of protestantism or another, I'm not really familiar with all the doctrinal variations. He's done some missionary work and tells me that the hostile attitude toward Christians, which he may slightly exaggerate, is a peculiarly American trend. Europeans seemed either "believers" or indifferent. Of course the question "who the hell sends missionaries to Austria?" has yet to be answered. Mexico I understand. Three centuries ago! I think they've already got all the takers they're gonna get. but I could ramble on this all day...

I am wondering how Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" is going to fuel all this. There's already bombastic reaction all over the place (as most folks know).

I'm kinda looking forward to this, despite my somewhat rusty Aramaic

Actually, yesterday I heard about Mel Gibson's father's recent comments on the radio and couldn't help but chuckle. The reporter comes on in the typical metered, serious newscaster voice "...has stated that Jews are conspiring to (pause) take over the world and that no Jews were killed during the holocaust, they all just (pause) got up and left."

And Christians complain about persecution...

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#1 2004-02-18 08:17:47

Re: Bill O'Reilly

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Re: Bill O'Reilly

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Re: Bill O'Reilly

#4 2004-02-18 19:15:42

Re: Bill O'Reilly

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#6 2004-02-19 12:34:04

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