40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?

SpaceNut · 2025-10-13 09:27:11

40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission? NASA’s Wild Bet on Starship Explained

Thats more sever than we had thought...

The global race to return humans to the Moon is accelerating, and the United States is betting big on SpaceX’s colossal Starship rocket. As reported by CNNon October 12, 2025, China is advancing rapidly with its own crewed lunar mission, raising serious questions about whether NASA’s current approach can deliver results in time. The answer may hinge on a pivotal Starship test flight scheduled for Monday in South Texas.
Starship Becomes NASA’s Linchpin For Artemis
Set to serve as the Human Landing System (HLS)for the Artemis III mission, Starship is a critical component of NASA’s plan to land astronauts on the Moon by 2027. Its role is to ferry astronauts from lunar orbit to the surface and back. However, despite its towering ambition and unmatched scale, Starship remains in development and has yet to prove it can perform under mission-level demands.
So far, the rocket has flown ten times, with six flights ending in failure. The latest prototype even exploded during ground testing. The upcoming eleventh test is expected to validate major features essential to Artemis III. Without demonstrated reliability, Starship’s place in NASA’s roadmap could become increasingly fragile.
Fueling Challenges Raise Red Flags
Starship is too large to make a full round trip to the Moon and back on a single tank. To solve this, NASA and SpaceX plan to launch a refueling depot into Earth orbit, then send multiple tanker Starships filled with cryogenic propellant to top it off.
According to engineers at NASA’s Johnson Space Center, one mission could demand more than 40 tanker launches to fully fuel the depot, far beyond SpaceX’s own earlier estimate of about ten. These launches would need to occur in rapid succession to prevent fuel loss caused by boil-off, where cryogenic fuel warms and evaporates. Former NASA exploration chief Doug Loverro cautioned, “Nobody knows how efficient the transfer is going to be,” describing it as “nearly an impossible question to answer.”
Once the depot is full, the Starship HLS, equipped to support astronauts, would launch and dock with the depot before heading to lunar orbit. Meanwhile, a separate Orion spacecraft, launched by NASA’s Space Launch System (SLS), would transport the crew. The two spacecraft would rendezvous above the Moon, enabling two astronauts to descend to the surface aboard Starship and later return to Orion for the trip home.
China’s Ambitions Sharpen The Timeline
The China National Space Administration (CNSA) aims to land astronauts on the Moon by 2030, but some experts suggest it could happen sooner. Bill Nye, CEO of the Planetary Society, warned, “The China National Space Administration will almost certainly walk on the moon in the next five years.”
Acting administrator Sean Duffy pushed back against criticism during a recent town hall, declaring, “We are going to beat the Chinese to the moon.” Political pressure has mounted as well, with Senator Ted Cruz warning that any shift in strategy now could “threaten United States leadership in space.” Despite internal concerns, the agency is pushing forward.
Is Starship ready for the Moon?
While SpaceX’s Starship promises to revolutionize space travel, some experts argue it may not have been the most practical choice for a time-sensitive mission like Artemis III. Former NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine criticized the decision, stating no prior agency leader would have opted for such a complex architecture if given alternatives.
Starship was selected in 2021 during a leadership gap, largely due to its low cost and bold potential. The $2.9 billion contract was awarded after beating Blue Origin, which later rejoined the Artemis program following new congressional funding, but only for future missions.
Despite technical setbacks and scheduling concerns, SpaceX continues to receive strong institutional support thanks to its track record with NASA, notably through the Commercial Crew Program. Safety advisory member Paul Hill acknowledged that the Starship timeline is “significantly challenged” and could miss the 2027 deadline by years, yet he praised the company’s unique development model. NASA press secretary Bethany Stevens emphasized the importance of ongoing dialogue with stakeholders to keep missions on track.

Related information si contained in our Starship is Go... topic.

tahanson43206 · 2025-10-13 09:43:14

This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members.

This topic will surely have opportunities to collect reports of developments in the new future. The race with China is shaping up nicely.

The US appears to me to be about as confused as it has ever been, while China appears to be steady on it's very capable feet.

Posts to this topic could include sober reports on actual progress, in addition to the usual speculation and opinion we may see.

Index:

(th)

SpaceNut · 2025-10-13 12:03:58

Much of the numbers are coming from the targeted payload to orbit and what is needed for the Gateway. The later is definately not as solid.

Block 3 is the final version to target.

current-starship-2-and-starship-3s-proposed-specs-via-elons-v0-ik3pfxudgwsc1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=da6be20e6755e66f7414a0667e8a8edfb86ed7a8

Starship's fully reusable cargo capacity to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) is up to 150 metric tons (330,000 lbs), with a design target of over 100 tons to Mars and the Moon. The vehicle's block design aims to increase this capacity over time, with Block 2 aiming for 100-150 tons and Block 3 targeting 200 tons.
Capacity by Block (LEO):
Block 1: Aimed for approximately 100 tons.
Block 2: Designed to carry 100-150 tons to LEO.
Block 3: Targeted to carry up to 200 tons to LEO.
Key Factors for Capacity:
Full Reusability: The design focuses on full reusability, impacting overall capability.
The Starship Block 3 specifications include:
Height: Approximately 140 to 150 meters (461 to 492 feet).
Payload Capacity: Up to 200 tons to low Earth orbit (LEO) when fully reusable.
Engine Configuration: Equipped with 33 upgraded Raptor 3 engines.
Propellant Capacity: Increased by 25% compared to Block 2, enhancing launch capabilities.
Design Features: Includes a docking system for on-orbit refueling and a reinforced cargo bay.

These upgrades aim to support more extensive missions, including those to Mars and the Moon.
Orbital Refueling:
Starship is designed to be refueled in orbit, allowing it to carry more payload to other destinations like Mars.
Expended Configuration:
When not fully reusable, Starship is projected to carry even larger loads, potentially 250+ tons to orbit.
Cargo Configuration:
Starship can be configured for a variety of payload types and can autonomously deploy them to Earth, Lunar, or Martian surfaces.
The height of the full Starship stack, consisting of the Super Heavy booster and the Starship upper stage, varies by block, with recent versions like the Block 2 being around 404 feet (123.1 meters) tall and larger versions like Block 4 reaching approximately 466 feet (142 meters). The height of the two stages are: Block 2, the upper Starship spacecraft, is 171 feet (52.1 meters) tall, and the Super Heavy booster is 232 feet (71 meters) tall.
Full Starship Stack Height by Block
Block 1: Approximately 398 feet (121.3 meters).
Block 2: Around 404 feet (123.1 meters).
Block 3: About 408 feet (124.4 meters).
Block 4: Approximately 466 feet (142 meters).
Component Heights
Starship spacecraft (Ship): The 171-foot upper stage.
Super Heavy booster: The 232-foot first stage.
These measurements represent the integrated launch system, not just the spacecraft or the booster alone, and are subject to change as the system continues to be developed

edit:
its about the volume shape between the blocks that means problems for the cargo we would want.
Block 1 is just 23 m tall with the internal diameter of 9 M but is the cylinder to where it arcs
Block 2 they are striving for 52 m for that same 9 m diameter.

These make and placement of moon equipment to fit a fresh design to make use of the internal volume.

SpaceNut · 2025-10-13 12:35:48

AI Overview
Block 3 Starship and Super Heavy are a planned set of upgrades focusing on significant increases to thrust, propellant capacity, and overall size. The following specifications are derived from official SpaceX announcements and reports from aerospace news outlets and fan communities.
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[size=150]Starship Block 3 Specifications[/size]
Overview
Block 3 represents a significant scale-up of the Starship architecture, with a focus on delivering a truly high-performance, fully reusable launch system. It incorporates major upgrades, including the use of Raptor V3 engines, a longer vehicle, and structural improvements.
Full Stack (Starship + Super Heavy)
Height: 124.4 m (408 ft)
Diameter: 9 m (30 ft)
Payload to LEO (fully reusable): Up to 100 t (220,000 lb)
Engines: All Raptor V3 engines across both stages.
Super Heavy Booster (Block 3)
Height: 72.3 m (237 ft)
Propellant Capacity: 3,650 t (8,050,000 lb)
Engines: 33 Raptor V3 engines.
Maximum Thrust: 80.8 MN (18,200,000 lbf).
Grid Fins: Reduced from four to three larger fins, integrated into the catch pins and positioned lower on the vehicle for better heat management during stage separation.
Hot Staging: Redesigned integrated hot staging ring with improved venting to handle the higher thrust of the Raptor V3 engines.
Starship Upper Stage (Block 3)
Height: 52.1 m (171 ft).
Propellant Capacity: 1,550 t (3,300,000 lb).
Engines: 6 Raptor V3 engines (3 sea-level, 3 vacuum-optimized). Future versions may include up to 9 engines.
Heat Shield: Features a fully reusable, metallic heat shield with built-in cooling pathways for improved reliability and mass savings.
Raptor V3 Engine
Thrust (Sea-level): 280 tf (507 klbf). Future versions aim for 300+ tons of thrust.
Engine Mass: 1,525 kg, a reduction from the V2 engine.
Cooling System: Integrated cooling circuits, eliminating the need for a separate heat shield on the aft of the booster.
Key Upgrades & Features
Increased Thrust and Payload: Raptor V3 engines provide a substantial boost in power, enabling a higher payload capacity to orbit.
Refined Design: A simpler, more reliable aft booster design, with components either removed or better integrated.
Improved Hot Staging: An integrated hot staging ring and improved venting mechanism designed for increased engine power.
Florida Operations: The Block 3 vehicle is compatible with the new Orbital Launch Pad at Kennedy Space Center, facilitating a higher launch cadence.
Development & Status
As of October 2025, Block 3 vehicles are in production and undergoing testing, with the final Block 2 vehicle having already flown. SpaceX aims for heavy flight activity for Block 3 in the coming year.
SpaceX Starship Block 3 specifications
Overview
Full Stack Height: ~124.4 m (408 ft)
Payload to LEO (fully reusable): 100 t, with a potential to increase to 150 t
Target Mission: Long-duration missions to the Moon and Mars
Key Improvements: Upgraded engines, simplified design, and a larger integrated hot-staging ring
Super Heavy Booster (Block 3)
Height: 72.3 m (237 ft)
Diameter: 9 m (30 ft)
Engines: 33 Raptor 3 engines
Maximum Thrust: 80.8 MN (18.2 million lbf)
Propellant Mass: 3,650 t (8.05 million lbs)
Structural Changes:
Simplified aft section and integrated hot-staging ring
Fewer, larger grid fins, integrated with the catch pins
Propellants: Liquid Methane (CH4) and Liquid Oxygen (LOX)
Starship Second Stage (Block 3)
Height: 52.1 m (171 ft)
Diameter: 9 m (30 ft)
Engines: 6 Raptor 3 engines (3 sea-level, 3 vacuum-optimized)
Maximum Thrust: 26.48 MN (5.95 million lbf)
Propellant Mass: 1,500 t (3.3 million lbs)
Structural Changes:
New integrated hot-staging system
Upgraded thermal protection system with full-stack reusability
Propellants: Liquid Methane (CH4) and Liquid Oxygen (LOX)
Raptor 3 Engines
Purpose: Powers both the Super Heavy booster and Starship upper stage
Key Features:
Higher thrust and improved efficiency
Integrated cooling circuits to eliminate the need for a separate heat shield on the engine bay
Thrust (Sea-level): 280 tf
Thrust (Vacuum-optimized): Higher than sea-level
Specific Impulse (Sea-level): 330s
Specific Impulse (Vacuum): 350

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#1 2025-10-13 09:27:11

40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?

#2 2025-10-13 09:43:14

Re: 40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?

#3 2025-10-13 12:03:58

Re: 40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?

#4 2025-10-13 12:35:48

Re: 40 Rocket Launches for One Moon Mission?

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