Ocean Desert Fertilization Methods, Food, Fuel, and Carbon Abatement

Void · 2024-03-14 18:54:21

There are already 3 examples I can think of that have had public articles.

I was considering new types, and some things I think could be important popped into my head.

If the management does not want this new topic, then please work with me and we can do something else.

Very large ocean deserts exist where sunlight and water of course exist, but nutrients are in short supply at the upper levels of the water where the sunlight is.

Methods that I have read of are:
1) Spread Iron of the proper sort into the water.
2) Attach seaweed to cables and drag the up and down in the water by towing. When down and in the dark the seaweed gets nutrients, and then brought up to the light it can synthesize growth.
3) Similar to #2, but they simply move a platform that is horizontal up and down in the water column.
We already have materials about #3 on our site here it is: http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 23#p218823

Now where I was actually going was to use nuclear power to warm deep ocean water, or mix upper water with lower water, but I think I now have something better.

What I am thinking of is a wheel type floating reef. The wheel would be large enough that half of it would be in nutrient rich water and half would be in sunlit water, but the wheel would turn. Wind of waves could make it turn, or if you really wanted to use nuclear you could. Things that would grow on it, being attached would follow the wheel down into the fertile waters, and then up again into the sunlight.

Some versions might be anchored, but for the Gyres I wonder if they could simply free float? I am thinking methods would allow wind or waves to make the wheels turn. But I know that the doldrums do not have that much wind, but maybe that would be a good thing.

This might not work for large sea weeds but might work with the type of algae that attaches to surfaces.

The idea is to foster sea food growth, but it would also result in some organic materials sinking into the deep ocean, and so Carbon sequestered.

I like the idea of ones tied to a sea floor tether, where perhaps the portion above the waves would be made to tumble slowing by the wind hitting its exposed surfaces.

This could be a way to get fertilizer out of the deeps of the oceans as well. Fertilizers are expensive to make as per energy.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-14 19:14:34)

Void · 2024-03-14 19:44:40

Well, this might be a wind map. It is interesting in any case: https://earth.nullschool.net/

Well, wind, wave, ocean current, nuclear might turn wheels as described in post #1. What about solar. I don't have something yet for that.

????

A wheel might be like a, innertube, with an inside and an outside. You might foster fishes you like on the inside and maybe keep the top predators out. So, that humans can be a top predator. I might prefer vegetables that taste very good, but they do not seem to grow in the oceans, not yet anyway.

Why don't you highly superior people invent some.

Done

Such a wheel might not need to be exposed to the turbulent surface but then you need an energy source to turn the wheel.

Such a wheel does not have to be a vertical wheel, it could be canted. Maybe 45 degrees, +/- ??? degrees.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-14 19:55:49)

Void · 2024-03-15 09:29:01

Usually when you read articles about sequestering CO2, you get the idea that you have to draw electric power from a grid to do it.

I would prefer to see if it could be done this way.

My first vision of it was a vertical disk slowly spinning. This spin however would have some friction. And the substance of the disk would probably expand and contract as it encountered various temperatures of water. The substance itself would have a heat reservoir effect, I expect, so it would bring a bit of heat down with its spin down portion and a little heat up with it's spin up portion. I would do some water mixing, I expect.

I wonder if you could have a set of parallel disks on a single shaft, and some means to spin the whole assembly. I have suggested wind, and waves. But of course then it is going to get battered. Some cases of it would consume energy, but the wind or wave method might be self powering.

I am sort of thinking about a buckets water wheel, where the buckets each have a small hole in the bottom. So, waves will fill some that are near the surface and upright, and the little hole in the bottom would let some water through, but on the other side where the wheel is spinning up. as soon as the bucket breaks the surface air will pass though the small hole to fill the bucket allowing the water in the bucket to exit where the bucket is upside down.

Anyway, that is a notion. It is probably not immensely strong, but you may only want the wheel(s) to spin relatively slowly.

I am presuming that algae of some type may adapt to continual pressure changes. If a certain bucket keeps being presented to the deeps and then above the surface, this may well be hostile to life that likes to attach to surfaces such as barnacles??? Don't know of course.

Fish feeding on what was growing on the surfaces would re-release the nutrients by their droppings, and Ammonia/Urine.

There are several ways wind might spin such a wheel.

But if breaking surface, waves may be damaging to the structure.

If you wanted one where waves do not break on it, I guess you would need some other motive force to spin it.

There would be many different types of spinners that could be used.

Done

Sequestering CO2 would be done by fish droppings, to some extent, and also if fish below come up to eat little fish, and the do their droppings lower in the water column then that might sequester CO2 to the deeps.

Another notion would be to actually indeed capture CO2 from higher up somehow and then release it into the cold waters below.

Done

A whole shaft with many spinner disks on it might be powered by a nuclear submarine, I think. That way it could dive down to avoid bad storms and then also break surface when the conditions were favorable. But safety and reliability would need to be built into that. But such might be able to operate in the ocean deserts where other things could not.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-15 09:45:50)

Void · 2024-03-17 10:07:49

I have been thinking about the materials of this topic some more.

Materials to make such structures out of could be those similar to ghost nets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_net
Nets are constructed to collect and kill sea life. I would not be going in that direction, but the materials of these nets, expected to last a long time in a very hostile environment.

How long can Ghost Nets last? https://earth.org/up-to-a-million-tons- … 0decompose.
Quote:

Approximately 600-800 years
It takes approximately 600-800 years on average for ghost fishing nets to naturally decompose.

So, materials such as Nylon, and plastics might be useful for what I want.

In my opinion, there are good environmentalists and bad ones. The bad ones have been shown to block the fertilization of oceans. They are the "Naturalists". In their correct modes they can do good things. But their reaction to humans is like that of feudal lords. The commoners are simply lacking much value. I will agree that the mass of humans can be a problem that demands service from us. They act as if anyone who tries to build something then needs to be subordinated to their wants and needs.

My objective here is to buy more time to utilize new resources so that an accumulation of capabilities will allow a continuing development of this world to be able to expand into space, without excessive damage to the Earth. So, if the burden can be redistributed, then time can be bought.

The Ocean deserts lack nutrients in the surface waters. But the lower waters have them. So, I am thinking that a whole lot of sunlight goes to waste in the Ocean Deserts.

Mechanisms that could access the ocean nutrients, have been tested where objects covered in organisms that have Chlorophyl on them are lowed to nutrient rich waters periodically to fertilize the organisms, Then they are returned to the light so that they can grow.

I am trying to work towards devices that would spin, and in their spin would cause major portions of the device to be alternately exposed to the cold nutrient rich waters and then up to the light near and above the surface.

I am thinking of fiber like algae, and hope that they could anchor to the structures.

As the structures might be in very deep water they may not be anchored, and may need to be able to navigate long within an ocean gyre, and to not collide with other solid objects. So, they would be robots, and would need a power supply, navigation methods, and an energy source.

My hope for this is that the spinners would promote primary and secondary, growth.

1) Primary Growth would be algae that would grow in the surface of the spinners, and the sea creatures that would eat that.
2) Secondary Growth would be that sea life that would grow in the surface waters as a result of nutrients that result because of the excretions of the 1) Primary Growth process.

That would be fish droppings, Ammonia, and Urea. Also decomposing dead life.

Gravity would tend to take some of that back down below, and so then that would sequester Carbon.

And to the direction of Carbon flow will be down into the depths of the oceans for long terms, even though the spinners would be bringing nutrients upward, against the nature of natural processes.

The process may create food, and also sequester Carbon.

We need to sidestep, the tendency for society to try to achieve balance by producing a class of specialized ruling elites and ignorant poverty-stricken surfs. Some religious processes have to be kept at bay, which promote that sort of thing.

The problem with the feudal model is that neither the elites or the surfs are likely to be able to work in actual intellectual processes. They also will tend to consume capitalism. Where they will be specialists strongly capable of communications, and murder by words, they will also be jealous of productive innovators. The want to be the old moneyed people and do not like new money upstarts.

So, you have to watch out about the environmentalist movements where they are perhaps camouflaged but are in realty the same old problem that thinks a stagnant reality that they can own, and control is the most wonderful one of all. And in the new addition they may not even want God but may want to be gods.

The Verbal and Violent conceal the violent part because they use words to promote the violence usually, and that is usually about concentrating wealth to them, and not only that but to sink the "Commoners" into poverty.

So, be aware of that potential.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-17 10:40:53)

Void · 2024-03-19 10:24:58

I am copying some posts here from another topic as they may suit this topic:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 52#p220552
Quote:

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,335
Email
Can you imagine the mess that an Atlantic storm or a tropical cyclone would make of a floating solar farm? This has always been the problem with wave power. The wave machines take an absolute beating from storm waves. They have to be over-engineered to such an extent that it renders them uneconomical. Offshore wind turbines take a beating in storms, and it limits their fatigue life. But a floating structure that has to move with the waves is going to take an even greater beating. The sea is cruel and does not forgive.
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 69#p220569
Quote:

I agree that solar cells are probably not suitable for the deep stormy seas.
But I have been moving towards giant robots, that can completely submerge.
Such could use wave power, thermal power, wind power, nuclear power and solar power (Solar Thermal).
Where I am at with that notion is a nuclear heart. It would need to be the very best per safety that can be constructed. This would be so that if it needs to hide from a storm, it could submerge and still have power.
When convenient it would tap into other types of power.
It would not anchor to the sea floor, but would drift in one of the five Gyres of the oceans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
Image Quote:
These Gyres typically seem to hold some of the ocean deserts.
Yes, I think that is true: https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/se … of-deserts
Image Quote:
Quote:
Phytoplankton are microscopic ocean plants that form the base of ocean ecosystems; they are so abundant that they are visible from space. Here, average chlorophyll from 1998 through 2006 is shown in green and indicates areas of high biological productivity. (Courtesy SeaWiFS Project/NASA GSFC and GeoEye, Inc.)
These Robots might make liquid fuels for us, perhaps by using pyrolysis on organic matter, and also creation biochar to sequester Carbon.
Also, if they can attach the nutrients of the deeps with the sunshine of the upper layers this can create food and biomass to conduct pyrolysis on.
So, in a way it is a form of solar energy as you would be enabling life to generate biomass from sunlight.
Pyrolysis could be done with electric ovens, or solar concentrating mirrors.
So, go down a bit when it is stormy and then such machines might survive a big storm.
What do you think?
Done

I had been considering the implementation of spinners, and that is still OK, but.....

The idea of a central sort of vertical submarine, as a "Tree Trunk" and then that to have branches, with hold fasts for things like kelp has been looked at. I would consider if wave power methods could be included as well.

The whole thing being submersible.

Ballast methods could include sea water, air, Biochar, and salt/brine.

And I would not prohibit the notion of spinners to host regular filament algae as well.

So the thing would have enough nuclear in it that it could survive by submerging under a storm for the needed duration, and yet would rise to the surface to harvest wave power when convenient.

I would also be desired to have the platform station keep in a set location or to have a planned drift where it could avoid collision with other solid objects.

So, this would simply be a water robot.

We are entering into new types of robots at this time so it may not be that farfetched.

So, perhaps the nuclear would mostly control the vertical, floatation, and wave power might be used for the horizontal.

Nothing is set in stone though, so innovation can be welcomed.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-03-19 10:36:17)

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#1 2024-03-14 18:54:21

Ocean Desert Fertilization Methods, Food, Fuel, and Carbon Abatement

#2 2024-03-14 19:44:40

Re: Ocean Desert Fertilization Methods, Food, Fuel, and Carbon Abatement

#3 2024-03-15 09:29:01

Re: Ocean Desert Fertilization Methods, Food, Fuel, and Carbon Abatement

#4 2024-03-17 10:07:49

Re: Ocean Desert Fertilization Methods, Food, Fuel, and Carbon Abatement

#5 2024-03-19 10:24:58

Re: Ocean Desert Fertilization Methods, Food, Fuel, and Carbon Abatement

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