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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-BB1j259A
Quote:

‘Air-breathing’ propulsion tech could unlock unlimited propellant for satellites
Story by Chris Young • 1w • 3 min read

Very Low Earth Orbit (VLEO), situated at an altitude between 100 and approximately 450 km (most commonly 250-350 km) is becoming increasingly attractive for both commercial and scientific endeavours. "It is easier to get to, requires fewer resources for communications, and allows for smaller payloads.

I had previously seen reference to a European device: https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Pr … 20payloads.  Quote:

ESA seeks space applications ideas in Very Low Earth Orbit
18/10/2023
3287 VIEWS
35 LIKES

Image Quote:

Frankly after that is achieved, I would like to see orbital power stations that can tow these devices to collect air from the upper atmosphere.
It may be that tethers electrified could be the propulsion method for that.  Instead to dumping the materials, for propulsion they would be collected so as to load propellants to interplanetary or Lunar spacecraft.

The electrified tethers might push off of the Earth's magnetic field.

Such a device might work for Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune.  For Venus, Mars, and Pluto, somehow the solar wind might be the method of propulsion.

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Last edited by Void (2024-03-10 12:54:34)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,218

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members over time.

The link provided in Post #1 leads to an article that reveals at the ** very ** end that this system needs a bit of work before it can go into production.

On the ** other ** hand, the proposal was well enough regarded that it received preliminary funding from a government agency.

The sticking point is how to insure that there is an equal output of charged particles, so that the net effect of operation of the system is neutral.

The article spends most of it's content talking about how wonderful this system would be if it ever works.

I'm hoping NewMars members will keep a close eye on this venture.

Howevr, any investor would be wise to steer clear until the "technical issues" are solved.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

Well, this is nerd food: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO3ENmbQQ9o
Quote:

Introducing: Ascender H1 Variant Orbital Airship

John Powell
3.21K subscribers

If the members need to, then hammer away.  I am only providing awareness of the video.

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Last edited by Void (2024-03-11 08:36:43)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,218

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

For Void re #3

Thank you for providing this update on the work of John Powell....

NewMars members may recall the name.

It has come up previously. I am glad to see the update.

Here is a list of posts that contain "John" and "Powell" and which also related to the balloon effort.

Re: Planetary transportation » Balloon or dirigible for Mars "hot air" or gas filled » 2023-09-09 08:34:00
tahanson43206

Re: Interplanetary transportation » Airship to Orbit? » 2021-12-17 14:32:47

Re: Interplanetary transportation » Un- conventional ways to LEO » 2020-11-28 09:46:29

Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Technology Updates » 2020-06-17 11:39:59

Re: Interplanetary transportation » Compressed gas balloon rocket for Mars launch » 2020-06-06 14:40:08

Re: Interplanetary transportation » Balloon Landing System from Phobos to Mars » 2020-05-14 12:18:38

Re: Interplanetary transportation » Airship to Orbit? » 2020-01-01 23:57:50

Re: Planetary transportation » Dirigibles on Mars - A practical means of transport? » 2019-12-31 21:07:05

Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Newmars Book Club » 2019-05-20 13:20:05

Re: Human missions » Calling our technical experts - Any chance this thing works? » 2005-08-29 09:29:21

I note that the earliest post dates all the way back to 2005 .... It is nearly 20 years later, so I am glad to see the link posted in #3 is available for an update.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

That is encouraging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Aerospace

I would like to know more about there engines, and if they could breath air somehow.

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Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,433

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

Void, this is an interesting new topic.  I think it could work, but it will be a difficult engineering job to build a spacecraft that can harvest Earth's atmosphere from orbit.  Because the atmospheric ions will be hitting your scoop at a velocity of about 7.7km/s, your spacecraft will need a propulsion system with an exhaust velocity somewhat greater than this to maintain its orbital speed.  Presumably, it would use some of the gathered air as propellant.  There would also be a non-trivial amount of heat generated as you cool down the atmospheric ions that are entering the scoop at 7.7km/s.  But I think it could work.  Ion propulsion using nitrogen as propellant would appear promissing.

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

Yes, high speed accumulation is going to be difficult.

I wonder though if the ship could tank up on atmosphere before going to high speed.

Then as it might be able to move to a high speed, could a rotavator give it assistance to orbit.

Granted the junk problem in orbit will be an impediment to that.

Anyway, I think this tech might be as much as 50 years off if it can be done at all.

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SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,907

Re: Air Breathing Orbital Propulsion Methods (VELO)

Semm quite possible to be collecting the castoff from the solar wind but we are talked about the syphoning of that atmosphere as well.