Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-02 12:02:48

Fission Reactors have been purpose designed from the beginning in 1942, in Chicago, when Enrico Fermi and his team activated the first simple pile using graphite as a moderator.

Admiral Rickover famously inspired the successful design of a kind of nuclear reactor optimized for propulsion of a submarine.

Many reactors have been purpose designed to deliver electricity into the open market.

This topic is about design of a nuclear fission reactor that does not currently exist (in 2024).

The reactor upon which this topic will focus will operate in the global seawater Desalination business, where it will isolate Deuterium while processing sea water to remove suspended materials. A related and key output of this reactor design will be Tritium for the home heating and electrical power market.

The only hint I have received about how this reactor would operate is that Tritium is produced when low energy neutrons are delivered into a mass of Deuterium (heavy water).

To clarify .... the outputs of this reactor in the Desalination Market are pure substances, such as water, chlorine, sodium, deuterium, carbon, hydrogen and a variety of trace elements suspended in sea water.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-02 15:19:23

Here is an opening discussion with ChatGPT4 ....

Innovative Concept for a Nuclear Reactor-Powered Seawater Desalination System
Overview
The discussion revolves around a groundbreaking concept that involves using a nuclear reactor, specifically one utilizing heavy water as a moderator, to power a seawater desalination process. The unique aspect of this concept is the aim to achieve zero discharge, avoiding the return of brine to the ocean and refining all extracted materials for commercial sale.
Key Discussion Points
Environmental Benefit: A major advantage of this concept is the mitigation of environmental concerns associated with traditional desalination methods, particularly the disposal of brine into the ocean. By eliminating this discharge, the project aligns with environmental conservation goals.
Energy Requirements: The process is energy-intensive, requiring a substantial and consistent energy supply. The proposed use of a nuclear reactor is to fulfill this requirement, providing a stable and potentially cost-effective energy source, independent of the open electric market.
Comprehensive Refinement and Value Addition: Beyond producing fresh water, the concept includes refining various minerals and compounds extracted from seawater. This adds value to the process, as these byproducts (like salt, magnesium, bromine, etc.) have commercial potential.
Fresh Water as the Primary Product: The primary output, fresh water, addresses the global issue of water scarcity and has a broad market, especially in arid regions.
Technical and Economic Feasibility: The success of this integrated system hinges on the technical feasibility of combining nuclear-powered desalination with material extraction and refinement processes, along with the economic viability of balancing operational costs against revenue.
Regulatory and Safety Considerations: Given the involvement of nuclear technology, the project would require adherence to stringent regulatory and safety standards, both in nuclear operations and environmental protection.
Research and Development: Significant R&D would be necessary to optimize the integration of these technologies and processes, potentially leading to innovations in nuclear reactor design, desalination techniques, and material refinement methods.
Market Potential and Sustainability: The project's focus on sustainability, combined with the utility of its outputs, could offer a competitive edge in the market. Understanding market dynamics for each byproduct is crucial.
Conclusion
This concept presents a holistic solution to a critical environmental issue, with the potential for resource recovery and financial viability. A detailed feasibility study, encompassing technical, economic, environmental, and regulatory aspects, would be essential to further explore this innovative approach.

The above was prepared by ChatGPT4 under my supervision.

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SpaceNut · 2024-01-02 18:50:53

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_hydrogen

The seawater has three isotopes of hydrogen, with atomic masses of 1.0079, 2.0142, and 3.014.4 tritium, deuterium, and protium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium

I remember talking about a cold fusion reaction with these on the forum.

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 09:15:55

For SpaceNut re #3

Thank you for your continuing support of this topic! With your reminder, the readers will be alert for any possibility of cold fusion.

The session with ChatGPT4 completed this morning began with the definition of the output desired for a system designed to produce Tritium from Deuterium. I asked for the quantity of seawater needed to collect a metric ton of Deuterium, and result was 6014 metric tons. I then asked ChatGPT4 to compute the quantities of elements that would be present in that quantity of seawater. Here is the presentation:

Unfortunately, Apache Internal Server Error objected to the text (or some part of the text) in the report
I'll deliver the report via link ...

Elemental Composition of Seawater: Analysis of 6,014 Metric Tons
< snip >
This analysis highlights the rich variety of elements present in seawater, offering a vast potential for extraction and commercialization. While the major elements like chlorine, sodium, and magnesium constitute the bulk of the extractable material, trace elements, including precious metals, could add significant value to the venture.
Note: The figures provided are approximate and based on average seawater composition. Actual concentrations may vary slightly.

The results above were produced by ChatGPT4 under the supervision of tahanson43206.

Here is a link to the report as prepared for the NewMars forum, BBCode format:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f79 … sp=sharing

Here is the same report, prepared for Word, OpenOffice or LibreOffice presentation:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yre … sp=sharing

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Calliban · 2024-01-03 09:37:30

There is practically no tritium in seawater. By 'practically' I mean not in concentrations that we could ever exploit. If we want tritium, we must make it through neutron bombardment. That is the only way. There are four reactions that can do this at scale:

1. Li-6 + n(th) = He-4 + H-3
2. 7Li + n(fast) = He-4 + H-3 + n(th)
3. H-2 + n(th) = H-3
4. He-3 + n(fast) = H-3 + H-1

Reaction 3 is where most commercial tritium comes from at the moment. It occurs in Canadian CANDU reactors. The problem is that deuterium is chosen as a moderator in natural U reactors, precisely because its absorption cross section for neutrons is miniscule. A CANDU will produce at most a few kg tritium per GW-year. They can provide small amounts for things like fusion experiements. But as soon as demand exceeds the low kg per year, this source will be inadequate.

Reaction 1 and 2 are proposed as tritium sources for future fusion reactors. By using lithium as coolant, the reactors can breed their own tritium. The problem is that neutron economy ends up being extremely tight in a pure fusion system. Each fusion reaction consumes one tritium atom and releases one (very) fast neutron. One neutron is needed to breed a new tritium atom. So there aren't any spare neutrons that you can afford to lose from the system. This is why ITER will be testing neutron multiplier modules. But the problem is solved completely if fusion is part of a hybrid fusion-fission system, because downstream fission reactors have plenty of spare neutrons that can be used to breed tritium. If such reactors are lithium cooled, then almost all of the spare neutrons from these reactors can be soaked up in breeding tritium.

Reaction 4 consumes Helium-3 and turns it back into tritium. It is problematic because it needs fast neutrons, helium is a diffuse gas with a density and low macroscopic cross section and He-3 is a valuable product in itself.

One of the advantages of tritium as a battery energy source, is that large amounts of it are needed anyway as part of a future fusion or hybrid fusion energy system. Any excess tritium that this system produces is a byproduct. But we are far more likely to have an excess in a future hybrid system. After the hybrid system is producing enough plutonium to meet the worlds energy needs, we can taper down breeding ratios by absorbing excess neutrons in lithium. This gives us an excess of tritium that can be used for other things. One application would be radioelectric batteries that power electric propulsion for Robert's large ship. We lokked at using Sr-90 in the past. But tritium woukd work as well and is better from an environmental and handling perspective.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-01-03 09:52:31)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 09:50:32

For Calliban re #5

Thank you for this post, which is a valuable addition to this topic!

In particular, thanks for pointing out that Deuterium is chosen for use as a moderator because it has a low absorption cross section for neutrons.

The Lithium pathway is closed for several reasons, including the heavy had growing demand for Lithium for the battery market.

Since Helium 3 is the desired end point for a Tritium battery, option 4 would seem less than ideal.

We are left with Deuterium as the only reasonable pathway for production of a ton of Tritium per day.

The technical challenges of accomplishing that seems significant.

The only hint I've been able to uncover so far is that the few Tritium atoms that are produced in the CANDU reactors are caused by low energy neutrons. I'm assuming that a reactor designed for the power market would be seeking to produce high energy neutrons.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 09:53:45

Here is another attempt to deliver a report formatted in BBCode for the forum.

The last one was rejected by Apache Internal Server Error, so that may happen here as well.

I had asked ChatGPT4 to show the compounds of interest in 6014 metric tons of seawater:

Compounds Composition in Seawater: Analysis of 6,014 Metric Tons
Introduction
This report outlines the composition of various compounds in 6,014 metric tons of seawater, with a specific focus on those compounds that can be decomposed to yield valuable elements, including Deuterium. This information is key for strategic planning in decomposing these compounds for industrial use.
Key Compounds in Seawater
The following are some of the major compounds found in seawater and their estimated quantities in 6,014 metric tons:
[table]
[tr][th]Compound[/th][th]Approximate Concentration[/th][th]Total Quantity (kg)[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Water (H2O)[/td][td]965,000 ppm[/td][td]5,851,430[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sodium Chloride (NaCl)[/td][td]28,000 ppm[/td][td]168,392[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2)[/td][td]1,272 ppm[/td][td]7,651[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sulfate (SO4)[/td][td]2,712 ppm[/td][td]16,307[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)[/td][td]413 ppm[/td][td]2,484[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Potassium Chloride (KCl)[/td][td]399 ppm[/td][td]2,399[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bromide (Br-)[/td][td]65 ppm[/td][td]391[/td][/tr]
[/table]
Deuterium Content
Deuterium, an isotope of Hydrogen, is a key focus for this project. It is predominantly found in the form of Heavy Water (D2O) in seawater.
[table]
[tr][th]Isotope[/th][th]Concentration[/th][th]Total Quantity (kg)[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Deuterium (D2O)[/td][td]0.015% by atoms[/td][td]1,000[/td][/tr]
[/table]
Conclusion
This report provides a comprehensive overview of the compounds present in seawater, highlighting their quantities in a large volume of seawater. The data is crucial for planning the decomposition of these compounds to extract valuable elements, including Deuterium. The figures presented are based on average seawater composition and are subject to variation.
Note: The figures provided are approximate and the concentrations are based on average seawater composition. Actual concentrations may vary.

Note: the BBCode commands for tables are not being recognized. I wonder if they are html format?

The above report was produced by ChatGPT4 under supervision of tahanson43206

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 09:54:44

Compounds Composition in Seawater: Analysis of 6,014 Metric Tons

Introduction
This report outlines the composition of various compounds in 6,014 metric tons of seawater, with a specific focus on those compounds that can be decomposed to yield valuable elements, including Deuterium. This information is key for strategic planning in decomposing these compounds for industrial use.

Key Compounds in Seawater
The following are some of the major compounds found in seawater and their estimated quantities in 6,014 metric tons:

[table]
[tr][th]Compound[/th][th]Approximate Concentration[/th][th]Total Quantity (kg)[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Water (H2O)[/td][td]965,000 ppm[/td][td]5,851,430[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sodium Chloride (NaCl)[/td][td]28,000 ppm[/td][td]168,392[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2)[/td][td]1,272 ppm[/td][td]7,651[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sulfate (SO4)[/td][td]2,712 ppm[/td][td]16,307[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)[/td][td]413 ppm[/td][td]2,484[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Potassium Chloride (KCl)[/td][td]399 ppm[/td][td]2,399[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bromide (Br-)[/td][td]65 ppm[/td][td]391[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Deuterium Content
Deuterium, an isotope of Hydrogen, is a key focus for this project. It is predominantly found in the form of Heavy Water (D2O) in seawater.

[table]
[tr][th]Isotope[/th][th]Concentration[/th][th]Total Quantity (kg)[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Deuterium (D2O)[/td][td]0.015% by atoms[/td][td]1,000[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Conclusion
This report provides a comprehensive overview of the compounds present in seawater, highlighting their quantities in a large volume of seawater. The data is crucial for planning the decomposition of these compounds to extract valuable elements, including Deuterium. The figures presented are based on average seawater composition and are subject to variation.

Note: The figures provided are approximate and the concentrations are based on average seawater composition. Actual concentrations may vary.

Calliban · 2024-01-03 10:00:47

TH, world lithium mining is over 100,000 tonnes of metal per year.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodi … 023-04-21/

A 1GWe fusion reactor, will consume ~60kg tritium per year, requiring some 120kg of lithium. If we powered the entire world in this way, it would consume <1% of lithium mined at present. And in a fusion-fission hybrid system, the fusion reaction is providing the neutrons rather than the energy itself. So we don't need anywhere near 1% of present lithium mining to power the world in this way. Lithium is not a limited resource as a nuclear fuel. It is in short supply because idiots need megatonnes of the stuff to produce batteries. But in fusion reactors, a few hundred tonnes a year woukd power the world!

Last edited by Calliban (2024-01-03 10:02:56)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 10:01:30

I asked ChatGPT4 to try again, since FluxBB does not appear to recognize the table formatting:

Compounds Composition in Seawater: Analysis of 6,014 Metric Tons
Introduction
This report outlines the composition of various compounds in 6,014 metric tons of seawater, focusing on those that can be decomposed to yield valuable elements, including Deuterium.
Key Compounds in Seawater
- Water (H2O): 965,000 ppm, Total Quantity: 5,851,430 kg
- Sodium Chloride (NaCl): 28,000 ppm, Total Quantity: 168,392 kg
- Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2): 1,272 ppm, Total Quantity: 7,651 kg
- Sulfate (SO4): 2,712 ppm, Total Quantity: 16,307 kg
- Calcium Chloride (CaCl2): 413 ppm, Total Quantity: 2,484 kg
- Potassium Chloride (KCl): 399 ppm, Total Quantity: 2,399 kg
- Bromide (Br-): 65 ppm, Total Quantity: 391 kg
Deuterium Content
- Deuterium (D2O): 0.015% by atoms, Total Quantity: 1,000 kg
Conclusion
This report provides an overview of the compounds present in seawater, crucial for planning their decomposition to extract elements, including Deuterium. The figures are based on average seawater composition.

The above was prepared by ChatGPT4 under the supervision of tahanson43206

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 10:06:00

For Calliban re #9

You are absolutely right about the far greater value of Tritium for the fusion market!

The same goes for Lithium, of course.

This topic is restricted to fission, because fission is all we humans have to work with at present.

The fusion breakthrough could occur tomorrow, or have already occurred and the news will arrive tomorrow.

In the mean time, since fission is all we have, that is the approach this topic is pursuing.

I believe we have topics devoted fusion, but will now check to be sure.

For Calliban: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 48#p218048

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 14:12:40

In the session reported below, I asked ChatGPT4 to consider feedback from Calliban regarding the nuclear cross section of Deuterium. ChatGPT4 confirmed Calliban's feedback, and went on to show the difference between a light water reactor and a heavy water one.

Neutron Cross Section of Deuterium: Key Insights for Nuclear Reactions
Introduction
This report discusses the neutron cross section of Deuterium (²H), emphasizing its role as a moderator in nuclear reactors and implications for Tritium production.
Key Insights
Deuterium vs. Common Hydrogen: Deuterium has a much smaller neutron capture cross section than common hydrogen (¹H). This property is essential for its use in heavy water reactors like CANDU, where it helps in using natural uranium efficiently by minimizing neutron loss.
Neutron Interactions and Isotopes: Neutron interactions vary with different isotopes. Hydrogen's total cross-section is over ten times that of Deuterium, mostly due to hydrogen's large incoherent scattering length.
Moderator Cross Section Comparison: As moderators, Hydrogen has a thermal cross section of 20 barns and Deuterium 4 barns. For neutron capture, the figures are 0.2 barns for Hydrogen and 0.0003 barns for Deuterium, highlighting Deuterium's efficiency in reducing neutron absorption.
Conclusion
Deuterium's low neutron absorption cross section makes it an effective moderator but also presents challenges for Tritium production. Detailed analysis of reactor design and neutron flux is necessary for efficient Tritium generation.

This information was prepared with assistance from ChatGPT.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-03 14:18:10

I would like to make an observation about Post #12....

I had informed ChatGPT4 that the experiment with table formatting did not work with BBCode. I asked if I might show ChatGPT4 an experment that had worked. It used the working model as a guide, and post #12 was successful.

I'd also like to point out that (on it's own) ChatGPT4 added the line about "assistance"

It appears to have based that on my line about "supervised by tahanson43206"

This adaptation of my example shows just a hint of ego at work. I don't have a problem with that. I get the final say.

Post #12 was prepared under the ** very close ** supervision of tahanson43206.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-01-03 18:48:39

I am wondering if the sea water after creating 1.3 cu meters fresh leaving from 2 cu meters leaving the waste to be used might help with finding the correct materials for the change of isotope that is needed.

SpaceNut · 2024-01-15 13:04:56

Water molecule discovery contradicts textbook models

AA1mZtNM.img?w=768&h=374&m=6

SpaceNut · 2024-01-30 18:57:56

Tritium battery
https://youtu.be/KKdzhPiOqqg?si=6jQ0QpBt5TAYI6TP

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-30 19:51:02

For SpaceNut re #16

Thank you for that ** very ** well done (and informative) video.

I watched it from beginning to end, and came away with a better appreciation of the capabilities of Tritium for energy delivery over an extended period. The presenter is a chemist, and he was modest about his use of electric devices, but he came across to me as well enough prepared to handle the electric current flows just fine.

I was pleased to see a number of facts given in the video that matched the work done earlier in this topic.

It was interesting to see that the home made device cost $300 and the equivalent commercial device costs $3000, but the home made device produces a greater power output at a higher voltage.

All in all, this video seems well worth while for anyone interested in the potential of Tritium as an atomic energy storage device.

(th)

Calliban · 2024-01-31 04:33:06

Tritium has a relatively short half-life, does not bioaccumulate and has a low decay energy. It is a pure emitter. This makes it safer than other potential radioisotopes like strontium-90. It already has a lot of niche uses. At present, it is rather too expensive to have wide application in portable power sources. Maybe that can change if we develop dedicated reactors capable of producing it in large volumes.

If we ever develop a closed fuel cycle based on fast neutron reactors, there will eventually be an excess of fissile material that will need to be disposed of in burner reactors. The usual proposal is to do this with light water reactors, with a conversion ratio <1. But the system coukd be optimised to produce tritium. The most neutron efficient way of doing this would be metallic fuelled epithermal reactors that are cooled by liquid lithium-6. Each plutonium atom that fissions would yield approximately 3 neutrons, 1 of which is needed to sustain the reaction. Some neutrons woukd be absorbed by other materials in the reactor. But we could expect to engineer a system that produces 1.5 atoms of tritium for each fission. A 1GWe reactor, will fission approximately 1 tonne of plutonium each year. The molar mass of 239Pu is 0.239kg. So a 1GWe reactor will fission some 4,184 mols of 239Pu each year, producing some 6276 mols of tritium atoms in the process. That amounts to 18.83kg of tritium per year. A country like the US might eventually have 2 burner reactors for each breeder and would need ~1TWe of installed capacity. So that amounts to 333GWe of breeder capacity and 666GWe of burner capacity. Total theoretical tritium production capacity would be 666 x 18.83 = 12,540kg/yr.

The specific decay power of tritium is 0.326W/gram. So 12,540kg would produce a decay power of 4.09MW. This is a pathetic amount of power compared to the 666,000MWe power of the burner reactors. But tritium is valuable due to its ability to provide portable power in niche applications. That is something that fission cannot do so well.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-01-31 04:58:40)

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#1 2024-01-02 12:02:48

Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

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Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

#3 2024-01-02 18:50:53

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Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

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Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

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#10 2024-01-03 10:01:30

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#11 2024-01-03 10:06:00

Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

#12 2024-01-03 14:12:40

Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

#13 2024-01-03 14:18:10

Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

#14 2024-01-03 18:48:39

Re: Fission Reactor Design to produce Tritium via Desalination Market

#15 2024-01-15 13:04:56

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