Spineless Governments - just my view...

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-23 00:08:56

It was only when I was reading http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4119855.stm]this article that I thought to myself, we really have a spineless government in the UK, too scared to put anyones back up in case it affects their election chances.

Graeme

C M Edwards · 2004-12-23 09:05:34

On the other side of the pond, the state of Louisiana ("the sportsman's paradise") recently passed an amendment to its state constitution which guarantees the right to hunt. The UK can send the Alliance over here if they're causing too much trouble at home.

Tell them to bring foxes.

Gennaro · 2004-12-23 10:13:57

I'm not sure I understand it. Do you think fox hunting is good or bad, Graeme? What's this with the British and fox hunting anyway? Why are they so hung up on it?

Must say that first photo, "Hunting in Oxfordshire" is very pictoresque. Like a Gainsborough painting almost.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-23 10:18:49

I'm not sure I understand it. Do you think fox hunting is good or bad, Graeme? What's this with the British and fox hunting anyway? Why are they so hung up on it?

I'm against fox hunting with dogs, in fact I'm against all forms of hunting with dogs. The point of my post was to vent anger - the elected government voted with a massive majority to ban hunting with dogs, now they are too spineless to fight the pro-hunt groups to enforce the law next year (which look likely to be an election year).

Graeme

Gennaro · 2004-12-23 10:21:03

Well, yes, I guess that's weak.

Grypd · 2004-12-23 10:40:25

I have seen the damage foxes do and it really is not pretty, if they get into a hen house they just seem to go into a killing frenzy.

Farmers call foxes vermin and in this they are right it is not as if they are at risk of extinction in fact there numbers are rising so high that they pose an extinction risk to other species. Im from the Highlands of Scotland and we do not have the "Fox Hunts" that seem to be the main aim of protestors (most of who come from the cities). I understand why farmers need them controlled and up here we shoot them or gas them out but these are pretty inefective so what has to be done will be to leave really horrible traps or poison bait. Poison bait will not only be eaten by foxes it will be eaten by the rare birds of prey and domestic and wildcats etc. But if we are to save species like the black grouse or cappercaillie this is what must be done. So banning fox hunting down south really has not saved one fox actually it results in the crueler death of being poisoned or trapped and gnawing there own legs off.

So ban hunting with dogs the packs of dogs get killed and the farmers will get on with poisoning these foxes or trapping them. The people in the country get poorer the city folk keep their sensibilities until they want to ban something else like fishing(which is coming). And the fox for that we need a modern means to kill them yes we plan to disease them. Just like we did for the rabbits and so it goes on.

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-23 11:27:56

I have seen the damage foxes do and it really is not pretty, if they get into a hen house they just seem to go into a killing frenzy.

You can make hen houses fox proof, I know having done it.

Farmers call foxes vermin and in this they are right it is not as if they are at risk of extinction in fact there numbers are rising so high that they pose an extinction risk to other species.

Fox levels may be better controlled if the hunters did not artificially improve the habitat of foxes to increase there chances on a hunt.

So ban hunting with dogs the packs of dogs get killed and the farmers will get on with poisoning these foxes or trapping them. The people in the country get poorer the city folk keep their sensibilities until they want to ban something else like fishing(which is coming). And the fox for that we need a modern means to kill them yes we plan to disease them. Just like we did for the rabbits and so it goes on

Being a country boy this annoys me, its not all city people who want to ban hunting, country people do to. As for having to destroy huge packs of hunt dogs, thats just another case of propoganda gone wild, no dogs need to be killed if the hunt is banned.

Graeme

Gennaro · 2004-12-23 11:37:38

Thanks for detailing the issue, Grypd. Yes, this has mainly been my impression also. Ban the fox hunt has appeared to me largelly an irrational reaction of typical urban lefties, in this case combining two irresistable notions: glorification of furry animals (especially predators) and hatred for the aristocracy.
Of course, I'm a city dweller as well, yet half my family comes from Småland, traditionally an area of deep forests, cold winters, a hard land. There's also an alleged trait they are said to share with Scotsmen, namely a deep-seated frugality.

Palomar · 2004-12-23 11:39:33

*It's my intense curiosity which leads me to ask: Graeme, why are you opposed to hunting precisely? Because it's a blood sport? Or is it just the dog/fox factor? What about hunting birds, like pheasants (not sure you have pheasants in the UK)?

Just sincerely curious.

--Cindy

GraemeSkinner · 2004-12-23 13:44:23

*It's my intense curiosity which leads me to ask: Graeme, why are you opposed to hunting precisely? Because it's a blood sport? Or is it just the dog/fox factor? What about hunting birds, like pheasants (not sure you have pheasants in the UK)?
Just sincerely curious.

I don't oppose all hunting, people that hunt to eat for example is not a problem,so people shooting pheasants/grouse to eat is a normal survival issue. Its the hunting for fun that I have a problem with, its got nothing to do with keeping the fox levels down - if you've ever seen the look of glee on a hunters blood covered face as his dogs rip apart a fox you'll know what I'm talking about.

I often see pheasant shoots, they come, they shoot, they take away the pheasants to eat, I don't enjoy the idea, but I'm not shouting at them to stop either.

Graeme

Grypd · 2004-12-23 14:06:48

We do have bird hunts over here mostly pheasant and common red grouse. It a staple of the large estates over here but is dieing out. We also have deer hunting but nothing like enough to keep the deer population down so we often have to cull them. And this basically is a systematic kill everyone that we find.

Why do we have this problem well its due to man having killed off all the predators. Actually we are considering seriously the reintroduction of wolves even with the likely consequences for sheep farmers, but we have to get the deer population back into balance.

But for foxes they do get into the chicken coops they gnaw there way in and they find our free range chickens a particular easy prey and so they do. They find the ground nesting ptarmigan and grouse easy prey too. In scotland before legislation banning it came out farmers used to use 1 dog to flush out the fox so it could be shot. Not like the English great hunts which are mostly ceremony. Now as a result it is more becoming more commen to trap and poison the fox as they do have to be controlled and who really has time to keep hunting foxes. Its not as if the fox that is found nowadays is actually a native species. It is in fact a species called the Swedish fox an introduced species and it has displaced and annihalated the British Fox.

Palomar · 2004-12-23 14:29:00

- if you've ever seen the look of glee on a hunters blood covered face as his dogs rip apart a fox you'll know what I'm talking about.

*My opinion? There's something wrong with people like that. Anyone who enjoys gore and seeing something being killed... :-\

My parents used to kill and clean chickens when I was a kid; my father once wanted me to chop off a chicken's head. Guess who became the chicken? I couldn't do it.

Anyway, Grypd wrote:

Why do we have this problem well its due to man having killed off all the predators. Actually we are considering seriously the reintroduction of wolves even with the likely consequences for sheep farmers, but we have to get the deer population back into balance.

*Ranchers here in New Mexico are kicking up a fuss about the reintroduction (especially into the Gila Wilderness -- a vast expanse of forested mountains 2 hours' drive NW of my residence) of the Mexican Wolf aka "Lobo." But it's needed. :up:

--Cindy

C M Edwards · 2004-12-23 16:16:45

All this reminds me of a story.

There's a children's toy called a "Teddy Bear", named in honor of US president Teddy Roosevelt, who was historically an avid hunter. (Teddy was also responsible for officially beginning the US Park Service and national park system) It seems that old Theodore once refused to shoot a helpless bear cub that his hunting buddies had staked out in front of his cabin so that the president could say he shot a bear. The stuffed teddy bears inspired by that incident of good sportsmanship were passed out at a party honoring the president, and have been a popular toy for the past hundred years. Kids love 'em.

My fellow Louisianians, who staked out the cub in the first place, were not so fondly remembered.

Teddy didn't like fox hunting, either, for similar reasons. Perhaps that's the real distinction to be drawn here: the distinction between a bunch of guys who want to make an easy buck by offering baby bears for the tourists to bait, and that one true sportsman with a stuffed animal in his future.

Whatever would you name a stuffed toy fox?

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-12-29 05:36:51

Well, you see the thing is I more or less understand why people should want to hunt in the North America, or South America...
..yes people have lived there for thousands of years but only recently has it been so greatly populated, and filled with people to hunt so there is still much wildlife

Now look at Europe, Asia, North Africa or Eurasia...there is little wild life, types of deer, wolf, tiger, elk, bear....all hunted to extinction by Europeans and Asians over the years. There is less species that are there today and less wildlife it is a total lack of respect for our planet Earth. In China some go to hunt wildlife and eat Shark fin soup, funding for Hunting in Russia and parts of Eastern Europe comes from the demand for furs in North America and Europe, but there is now an awareness to protect creatures like Lynx, Wolf, Panda, Deer and so on who are facing dangers each year in Europe and Asia.

In Japan they have very little space, its is a small group of Islands - maybe half the size of France, or in less size than Montana or smaller than Nevada, the Japanese produce a lot of gadgets and electronics but they have little land and few resources for their population of 130 million, I have read some newspapers say they bleed the oceans dry,
http://www.deeperblue.net/upload/823221 … hter2a.gif
In Japan there can be hunting many times different kinds of animal, killing whale some of which are in danger of extinction, just as there are cattle slaughter house in America the Japanese are having seasons for slaughter of dolphin and other marine animals.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1990000/i … ale300.jpg

The Chinese government is know for its communist history and its harsh or wicked ways, there must be still some old communists in the government who care about the enviornment or animals :hm: as some person who tries to kill a protected animals could be in big trouble, they could receive the death penalty for killing a giant panda

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