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Change is difficult for individual human beings.
Change is ** really ** difficult for groups of people.
The changes that will be needed in how folks interact with each other, when setting up shop on Mars, are significant.
The forum archive contains numerous posts that show the difficulty some folks have in even ** imagining ** life on Mars.
However, change is happening on Earth right now, at a pace that millions (if not billions) of folks find downright uncomfortable.
The impact of climate change is (has been) causing dislocation for many, and discomfort for many more.
This was brought home to me recently, in correspondence with a resident of Phoenix, Arizona, where the impact of climate change has not yet had a direct impact, but where the future of exhaustion of fresh water supplies is looming on the horizon like a desert haboob.
When I suggested it might be practical to replace fresh water in swimming pools and fire retention ponds with sea water imported from the Sea of Cortez, my correspondent was upset, to put it mildly.
Humans who make the long journey to Mars are going to have to put up with restrictions that many might be unable to endure for the long term.
On the other hand, there are cultures which have lived with comparable restrictions on Earth, and they appear to have adapted quite well, to the extent they are still there. Some experiments in living in extreme environments on Earth have not endured. The same is likely to be the case on Mars.
This topic is offered to think about, and perhaps comment upon actual experiences of bringing about change in large organizations.
Large American corporations (and perhaps those in other nations as well) are under competitive pressure to improve or fall by the wayside. Introduction of massive change within large American corporations is a discipline most often carried forward by the Information Technology staff. Learning how to introduce and to manage change is part of the education of IT staff.
(th)
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You have run into that we have all ways done to that way thinking. Denial is strong until its directly impacting them. Some of this is willful desire not to change and others it's just not having the ability to get to the same conclusion with the facts. Those facts being of an alternative nature is part of the issue where numbers become meaningless to solving the problem.
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tahanson43206 and SpaceNut,
I will endure whatever hardships are associated with living on Mars if it means I never have to read about or listen to anyone talk about climate change ever again.
The latest "solution" from our climate changers, with respect to the man-made food shortage:
The New York Times - A Taste for Cannibalism?
At least our devil worshipers are honest about their desire to destroy humanity.
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For SpaceNut and kbd512 ...
Thank you both for giving this new topic a running start, albeit with the mandatory excursion out into left field.
The intention of this topic is to provide a place for members to make observations, or cite examples, of how much difficulty human beings have, both now and throughout history, in dealing with change.
Change is happening in a great number of areas of human experience.
(th)
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tahanson43206,
I provided one of the most recent examples of how the left are dealing with the changes offered up by their cult as solutions for staying out of their version of hell. Of course it's way out in left field. It came from the left. It's part of how they approach problem solving in response to changes. They make bad situations incomprehensibly worse than they need to be, because they're so irrationally terrified of change. Nobody on the right has time to come up with such cockamamie nonsense because we're too busy trying to stay off the dinner plates of leftists. Literally, in this case.
People who think their problems will be solved by insanity like that are not the sort of people I want to be locked up with in a steel spam can. They have too many boundary issues and are prone to wildly irrational behavior. They can't cope with changes, however slight, if that's not obvious. Those of us on the right deal with the most pressing issues first, then worry about what might some day kill people who are already proposing eating their neighbors to deal with the food shortages that their own decision making caused.
I can accept their proposed changes without issue if they also accept that my proposed change is to leave the planet they're on to put as much distance between them and my family as humanly possible. I have no desire to deal with their cult any longer.
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1. The sort of people that get drawn into ideologies, which are inherently left wing because they always involve controlling people; tend to be people with emotional insecurity problems that find the world threatening. They need ideologies that provide them with a sense purpose, meaning and justice against those that they fear and despise for whatever reason. They build up simple ideals in their minds and then insist on humanity conforming to those ideals. It is a weak minded way of dealing with the world. But it seems to be a problem that will follow human beings wherever they go. Idealism provides certainty, much as religion replaces doubt with certainty. Many people appear to need it.
2. Mars will require a great deal of change in the way human beings think and operate. Look at the environments that are most similar to Mars here on Earth. Northern Canada, Siberia, Greenland, Antarctica. There are human settlements in these places, but they are not environments where human beings thrive. And for the most part, people are not very interested in moving to these places, they are mostly empty of human beings. Why? They are remote and cold and growing food is difficult. In Kansas you can grow wheat in open fields, which are rain fed and stretch to horizon on both sides. Food can be produced in abundance. On Devon island, Antarctica or Siberia, you would struggle to grow a few meagre vegetables in a greenhouse that will probably need to be heated.
3. Now consider that Mars is as cold and desolate as Siberia, but also lacks breathable air and fertile soil. Siberia looks like a paradise compared to Mars. To grow vegetables, that greenhouse will need to be pressurised as well as being heated. Air is something that must be manufactured. Water will be frozen as hard as stone on Mars. For human beings to thrive here, they will require advantages that are sufficient to negate all of these problems. How do we make all of the ammenities of life cheaply available in an environment as tough as this? The human economy is an energy system. Human prosperity has grown dramatically in the past two centuries thanks to the abundant and low cost energy provided by fossil fuels. It has revolutionised every aspect of human society, from transportation to agriculture. To build an abundant economy on Mars, we need an even cheaper energy source, because we are working in a more hostile environment. We all know what that energy source is going to be. We need the weak minded idealists to get out the way and stop pushing impractical solutions.
4. Some general changes to human beings that the Martian environment will impose:
(a) Food will change. Forget about juicy steaks and wheat bread. Micro algae will form the bedrock of them Martian food chain, because it can produce the most calories per square metre of pressurised growing space. Fungi will provide protein and fibre. Conventional vegetables grown in greenhouses will be available but expensive. Meat will be a luxury item. How do make a palatable and nutritious diet from these inputs?
(b) Whilst there will be domed areas, radiation protection, heat retention and cost, all favour sub surdace habitats. These will either be tunnelled out or will consist of several metres of regolith heaped over a supporting frame of some kind. Humans may need to adapt to conditions where they do not regularly see the natural sky.
(c) On Earth, outside of our homes, there is plenty of accessible space all of it has air that we can breath. Not so on Mars. Urban areas will be comparatively cramped, because every cubic metre of pressurised volume is something that must be made and paid for. So settlements may have an overcrowded nature compared to Earth.
(d) Communities will be tight nit. The survival of everyone will depend on the cooperation of all people. Everyone will know everyone else. This will be claustrophobic to some people. And there won't be anywhere else to go if you disgrace yourself for whatever reason. But it means that peopke will tend to behave themselves. Much like the villages of the old world, social ostracism will discourage crime. Mars will not need many prisons for a long time to come.
(e) Until Martians are numerous enough and have sufficient sunk capital to support diversified industries, material goids of all kinds will be expensive and scarce. They will need either to be produced on Mars on small scale or imported from Earth. When combined with how society is likely to develop (small village mentality) most goods will be shared communally.
Last edited by Calliban (2022-07-26 09:09:22)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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Pakistan has been hit especially hard recently but it is not under water like Bangladesh could soon be. If you think about old religion zealot mindsets, the backward nature of mohammedanism where they expect their own people to go pray at a mosque 'Five Times' Per Day then how can your People or Civilization move forward, when work is to be done they waste time listening to some old guy preach jihad and wailing out noise pollution from the mosque. A culture like this refusing to build works and instead put time into an old jihadi religion is it always doomed to move backward when you pray to this mahomet? Rather than build works they waste time praying to a camel jacker, pedophile terrorist bandit from 1,400 years ago, a man muslims believe a prophet, their Sharia Law stipulates details on the use of violence, what groups of people are infidels, which group is to be attacked, whom to wage war, they can even push this violence inside non muslim lands as we see with the attack on Salman Rushdie an Indian-born British-American novelist who was attacked in NewYork. The thing about islam while it is a terrible set of ideas like those who had suffered and died under Communism or Fascism not all muslims will be terrorists and as individual peoples some muslims might have some kind of good quality despite having such a terrible religion. It is a terrible tragedy to see many innocents die in floods however if Pakistan had not spent so much time hiding guys like Bin Laden or promoting islamism then perhaps they would have been better prepared with drainage channels, new canals and flood defenses, if Holland can keep an entire Ocean out then why can't anyone else do it? The Looming news of more Sea-level rise and an impending cataclysm increasingly extreme weather patterns make reliable Holland water defenses important.
Center for Global Development (CGD) is a nonprofit think tank based in Washington and Londonistan. Bacha Bazi? In 2019 a tribunal brought by former visiting fellow Maya Forstater at the Central London Employment Tribunal found in favour of CGD for not renewing her contract due to social media messages describing transgender women as men.
Political elites of Pkaistan laundering money, Generals with Swiss bank accounts funding of terrorism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Pakistan
Pakistan receives foreign aid from several countries and international organizations. Since the start of the War in Afghanistan, the majority of the aid comes from the United States via the Coalition Support Fund which is reimbursement to Pakistan for counter-terrorism operations. Foreign aid from America has been stopped since 2018.
Almost the entire of Netherlands is undersea, once swamp land the Dutch may live as much as 22 feet (6.7 meters) below sea level but protected by Holland's Barriers to The Sea. If you had a magical Star Trek style transporter and replaced the Dutch peoples, the language, the ethnic group, the religion and belief of Catholic, Protestant, Atheist, replaced the West Germanic and Low Franconian cultural heritage with the culture with people of Pakistan then ruled by its new Desi Pakistani islamic rule could the area of Holland suffer the exact same fate? Dutch culturally are some of the closest relatives of both German and English, although old English is a lot more closer related to Latin and French. Countries such as the Netherlands move forward with time and challenge, they are investing in new construction or R&D solutions to effectively address new almost chaotic tests and obstacles of tomorrow’s climate, maybe eventually they will have floating towns or colonize the Ocean floor. While Pakistan wastes time bashing its skull into a floor of some mosque and sticking its anus up in the air while they pray to an evil Moongod al-Lah but the Dutch are still living in reality and doing all they can to prevent a disaster, Dikes, Levees, Draining systems and more Dams.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-04 05:14:18)
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yet it's a nation that has very severe floods....
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World should prepare for the collapse of Russia, warns former US general
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/collapse-russ … 52649.html
Thwaites Glacier ‘holding on by its fingernails’ says British Antarctic Survey as speed of earlier retreats revealed
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ … s-9273149/
German Greens deny report on nuclear plant extensions
https://www.mining.com/web/german-green … xtensions/
Germany puts nuclear reactors on standby amid Europe's energy squeeze
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272 … gy-squeeze
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-12 09:14:30)
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