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#1 2022-05-29 06:22:53

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut ....

There were two pages of topics that contained the word water, when FluxBB was asked to show the list.

Not ONE of all those topics is specifically about what a Mars settler needs to do to prepare found water for use, or to reclaim water from processes of living, or to reclaim water from other activities such as manufacturing. Please note that the posts inside the topic may well contain any or all of the content cited. I'm offering my interpretation of the topic text only.

** This ** topic is offered for NewMars members who might wish to collect knowledge, insights, tips and How To procedures so they are all in one place.

Here is the list of topics FluxBB found:

List of topics that contain the word "water" on 2022/05/29 on Earth:

Phoenix Arizona Fresh Water Supply vs Mars City Fresh Water Supply by tahanson43206 [ New posts ] [ 1 2 3 … 9 ]
Life support systems    202    Yesterday 22:21:11 by SpaceNut

Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water by tahanson43206 [ 1 2 ]
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    49    Yesterday 18:00:38 by SpaceNut

Interstate 80 San Francisco Salt Lake City Water Pipeline by tahanson43206
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    12    Yesterday 10:33:30 by tahanson43206

Desalinating water by Terraformer [ 1 2 3 ]
Life support systems    71    2022-05-27 15:53:17 by SpaceNut

New tech can get oxygen, fuel from Mars's salty water by Void
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    4    2022-05-05 12:43:17 by Mars_B4_Moon

Sticky: Air. Shelter. Water. Food. by Oldfart1939 [ 1 2 3 … 21 ]
Human missions    524    2022-04-25 22:07:00 by SpaceNut

Practical Water Extraction Methods for Starship Missions by kbd512 [ 1 2 3 ] <<-- This topic looks close to what this new topic is intended to offer
Human missions    65    2022-04-23 11:01:52 by SpaceNut

Russians found water on the Moon. by Void
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    9    2022-04-13 06:47:03 by Mars_B4_Moon

Water on Mercury? by Calliban
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    7    2022-04-10 06:31:05 by Mars_B4_Moon

Sticky: Mars Water regolith soils 1 foot depth only by SpaceNut [ 1 2 3 … 6 ]
Life support systems    137    2022-03-18 20:22:12 by SpaceNut

Lunar Air. Shelter. Water. Food by SpaceNut
Life support systems    7    2022-03-09 22:10:55 by Mars_B4_Moon

Regolith Water Vapor by Void
Life support systems    12    2022-02-28 15:03:29 by Mars_B4_Moon

How Much Water Does Mars Have? by Void
Water on Mars    23    2022-01-25 21:17:59 by tahanson43206

Water in the Valles Marineris: The Grand Canyon of Mars by Void
Water on Mars    4    2021-12-21 21:48:22 by Mars_B4_Moon

Sticky: Mars Insitu Fuels made from atmosphere, regolith, water by SpaceNut
Human missions    22    2021-11-25 11:52:39 by Calliban

Mars Rover Finds Mineral Vein Deposited by Water by Rxke
Water on Mars    4    2021-09-22 02:16:24 by Rxke

Liquid water confirmed on Mars by louis
Water on Mars    19    2021-07-18 10:45:10 by Void

Salt, Water, Power, Crops. by Void
Life support systems    3    2021-06-27 11:11:06 by SpaceNut

Free flowing water found on Mars? by louis [ 1 2 ]
Human missions    32    2021-04-04 11:13:43 by SpaceNut

Possible Water Processes on Mars, Involving Hydrogen Peroxide. by Void
Water on Mars    1    2021-01-23 20:48:28 by Void

Food from electricity, air and water... by louis
Life support systems    21    2020-12-30 21:35:14 by SpaceNut

Ice deposit on Mars holds as much water as Lake Superior, researchers by RobertDyck
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    12    2020-12-22 16:38:39 by Void

Minerals, Metals from Sea Water/brines. by Void
Life support systems    21    2020-12-15 22:21:22 by SpaceNut

Comet Harvesting: Water for Mars by tahanson43206
Terraformation    17    2020-07-25 16:21:45 by Calliban

Recent Water on Mars by Void [ 1 2 3 ]
Water on Mars    67    2020-07-12 20:31:29 by Void

VIPER Lunar Rover to Map Water Ice by SpaceNut
Unmanned probes    0    2020-06-14 22:11:18 by SpaceNut

What happens if you drink mold from a water bottle? by joelvelzflaske3
Meta New Mars    1    2020-06-03 17:53:10 by SpaceNut

Evidence Of Water Found On Mars - So Where Are The Martians? by TestID00259
Water on Mars    0    2020-04-09 06:08:14 by TestID00259

Sun + Air = water by SpaceNut
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    4    2020-01-19 23:21:57 by SpaceNut

Treading water... by louis
Human missions    2    2019-12-16 02:09:45 by Oldfart1939

Earth bacteria could thrive in briny water on Mars by louis [ 1 2 ]
Life on Mars    25    2019-10-28 22:01:03 by SpaceNut

Mining Water Ice on Mars by louis [ 1 2 ]
Human missions    30    2019-10-08 18:49:55 by SpaceNut

Water as a greenhouse gas and source of Methane and Ozone possibly. by Void
Terraformation    13    2018-12-13 21:05:27 by Void

Storing LOX-LH2 as water by Quaoar
Interplanetary transportation    24    2018-09-23 11:29:31 by SpaceNut

Giant Metallic Asteroid Psyche may have water by Tom Kalbfus
Human missions    10    2018-04-20 22:29:10 by SpaceNut

Scientists Discover Clean Water Ice Just Below Mars' Surface! 1/11/18 by EdwardHeisler
Not So Free Chat    2    2018-01-12 12:54:20 by EdwardHeisler

Methane Bursts Helped Keep Liquid Water Flowing On Mars, Study Finds by EdwardHeisler
Water on Mars    2    2018-01-08 15:43:42 by Void

anoxygenic photosynthesis to generate new water at hydrogen vents by doctordirt
Life support systems    11    2017-06-25 00:15:37 by knightdepaix

let cyanobacteria generate the needed water, exploiting hydrogen vents by doctordirt
Terraformation    1    2017-06-22 22:18:17 by SpaceNut

Use Vented Hydrogen and Oxygen To Make Power and Water in Flight by Dook
Human missions    4    2017-05-06 22:38:56 by Dook

Why worry about water? by louis
Life support systems    6    2017-04-21 11:09:23 by louis

Time to go! As much water as Lake Superior- MarsColony Green Light! by louis [ 1 2 ]
Human missions    37    2016-12-01 01:10:25 by SpaceNut

Ocean colony on a water balloon by Tom Kalbfus
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    10    2016-02-04 13:53:01 by Tom Kalbfus

Mars, splitting water. by Void
Terraformation    21    2015-12-10 11:58:10 by tmccormick

Water vapor on Mars? by jgarzik
Water on Mars    19    2014-12-24 19:54:19 by SpaceNut

What if we had a water giant instead of Mars? by Tom Kalbfus
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    13    2014-07-24 15:06:26 by Tom Kalbfus

Earth-sized sphere of water around the Moon by Tom Kalbfus
Terraformation    7    2014-06-17 12:13:44 by Void

Water/CO2 NERVA for Mars by Quaoar
Interplanetary transportation    5    2014-01-03 13:35:37 by Quaoar

Solaser mantle water extraction... by karov
Terraformation    7    2013-09-04 09:37:43 by karov

A different kind of habitible zone for Water/Ice planets. by Void
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    3    2013-04-07 12:51:08 by Void

Distribution of liquid water on Mars by JonClarke
Water on Mars    2    2011-12-17 18:21:14 by JonClarke

***
It is highly unlikely anyone will ever read all the way to the bottom of this opening post.  If there ** is ** such a person, your reward is to see the objective I am defining for this topic:

Goal: discover, develop and publish an atom-by-atom (molecule-by-molecule) water preparation process for use on Earth, on Mars or anywhere it is needed.

At present (to the best of my knowledge (which is unavoidably limited)) all methods of working with water use bulk processing.  The goal hidden at the bottom of the opening post of this topic, is to develop systems for working at the nano-scale, to handle individual molecules as needed to produce potable/healthy water for human use, in bulk processing quantities.

(th)

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#2 2022-05-29 06:32:39

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut ....

If you are willing to use your personal experience as a guide for what this topic might be able to offer, you have ground water that is not usable as pulled from the Earth.  That will also be true for water pulled from the regolith of Mars, or mined from deposits of ice there.

Potable water on Earth is evaluated for the elements it contains in suspension.  Some elements contribute to human health, and some should NOT be present because they either impact human health negatively, or indicate the presence of harmful material, such as bacteria.

it would be reasonable for this topic to contain posts that describe ways of preparing water for use that have been developed over thousands of years by humans on Earth.  There are mechanical methods, such as settling or filtering. There are chemical methods of many kinds.

Care/management of water is a major industry on Earth in 2022. 

However, what I'm hoping this topic will bring forward are methods that are suitable for a family sized group of humans, on Earth or Mars.

The problem of avoiding waste in the water cycle is very much under active study at the ISS, and (presumably) at the Chinese space station.

This topic could, if developed, provide a venue for NewMars members to move from theory to practice in working with water in their many varied circumstances.

(th)

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#3 2022-05-29 08:55:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

Much of america has hard water that must deal with this problem.

This will apply to mars as well since the planet is covered with iron oxides and water will be with in the dirt layers.

While its just 10 gallons a day that is bought the total would seem to be 10 times that to have processed and more based from the other topics.

I did have an iron removal unit that used back washing which just plugged it sooner due to the iron load that is in the water so I need to move the water first into a settling tank that air rated and adds in salts to aid in the heat processing. It was expensive then and still is.

iron-filter-for-well-water.jpg?w=1536

https://www.uswatersystems.com/blog/rem … well-water

How to Get Rid of Brown Well Water with a Solar Powered Water Filter

https://www.culligan.com/blog/a-guide-t … well-water

https://www.suezwaterhandbook.com/proce … on-removal

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/en … olar-still

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 … 31049/full
Advanced Solar Still Development: Improving Distilled Water Recovery and Purity via Graphene-Enhanced Surface Modifiers

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications … n-3-80.pdf
Solar Distillation of Water

First up is scale of use and sizing of tanks that must perform the through put required to produce that clean water in the end.

Of course a steam derived source means less contaminants will be required to settle out in that primary tanks inlet source from ground water. Then again most have wanted to use heat to get that water from the mars glaciers with the ability to be stable where that ice is for the equipment use along with its energy sources.

So depending on its mining we go through different energy and equipment required to provide it.

fresh source
designing settling tanks

settling-rate-test-for-thickener-calculations.gif

sediagram.gif

my google image search
recovery
How do you calculate the size of a primary settlement tank in sewage treatment?

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#4 2022-05-29 09:42:50

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #3

Thank you for giving this new topic a boost!

This topic needs to cover the full range of needs, from the individual on a camping trip, to the City of New York, as well as the corresponding situations on Mars.

An observation I would make is that steam does NOT need to be placed in a settling tank.

Steam is air-buoyant water molecules, so heavy molecules are not present.

On the ** other ** hand, steam is not necessarily free of contamination by lighter molecules, or by heavier gaseous ones such as Radon.

Never-the-less, treatment of steam should NOT involve creating a setting tank for it.

Hopefully someone will contribute a post showing how to most effectively deal with steam as a source for potable water.  Normally, since steam is deficient in needed minerals, these should be added to make water for drinking healthy.

Since many NewMars members have access to well water, your study of how to deal with non-drinkable well water should be both interesting and helpful.

(th)

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#5 2022-05-29 11:09:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

Everything we are talking about is not the commercial system that is on the sites and is location custom designed.

A settling tank will need to be sheltered to keep it warm not to mention pipelines must be protected and below the frost line at a depth of 4 feet in the state typically of which ground temperature is what isolate it during the times when we are super cold for days and weeks.

Same holds true for the actual trough and fluid that is used in the concentration pipe, it will freeze over night

Putting a glaze over the opening above the pipe completing a seal will aid in the heat build up and retention, but the real deal will be made with an auto covering that isolates the system during the night to keep the cold out of the system.

Final large holding tank to allow for the days when there is no sun to make distilled water with needs many of the things already listed above. Having a separate hot water tank and loop would if heat is plentiful possible with in the designing of a total system.

Base board heating in this area will need the food glycol mix and I have even seen that freeze if its not of a high enough concentration.


A holding tank prior for a Steam source would require cooling tubes and a collection tank at a minimum might see some settlement or discoloration. Then would come water mineralizing for taste which is done with distillation systems.

open streams are going to need filtration most like active carbon and UV to purify for use with heating on an open campfire or cooking equipment as another means to kill bacteria.

water is not a one size fits all but a variety of them for need

NASA’s need to conserve water in space has long supported terrestrial water-purification techniques

space needs while starting point is different the equipment used will be very similar. Then you have the knowledge and lessons learned from the ISS
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/201 … 014539.pdf
Developing the Water Supply System for Travel to Mars

mars also has the perchlorate issue as well for its water to contend with
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 122505.htm

Engineers Develop a New Water Treatment Technology That Could Also Help Mars Explorers

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#6 2022-05-30 07:40:34

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv6qZAtwKZM

The YouTube video at the link above shows multiple examples of netting used to capture fresh, potable desalinated water from fog. The video is about examples in the Middle East.  Scenes of the Sahara and other deserts are included.

(th)

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#7 2022-05-30 11:02:18

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

why do water softeners use salt?

Salt works effectively as a water softener through the process of ion exchange. The truth is, water softeners do not add any salt to the water. The water softening process breaks down the salt to use its sodium. This means that Calcium and Magnesium ions in hard water are exchanged for sodium ions. This is done in the brine tank or softener unit and not about freezing.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … teners-wo/

Rust (a collection of some iron oxides: ) is virtually non-magnetic, unlike plain iron or most types of steel.

The reason for Water softener salt with rust fighting additives prevents iron deposit build-up, and prevents iron and rust discoloration on sinks, dishes, toilets, cookware, and laundry.

120 degrees Fahrenheit is the safety recommendation against scalding, but 140° is the common default setting. Most experts agree that anything below 120 degrees creates a risk for bacteria to develop inside your water heater from stagnant water, such as legionella that causes Legionnaire's disease.

https://www.varsitytutors.com/hotmath/h … a-parabola

of course shape changes the equation

designs-02-00009-ag-550.jpg

You can also make a combination trough
ese3763-fig-0001-m.png

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful … 2/ese3.763

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/65228.pdf

An Analysis of the Effect of Molten Salt Thermal Storage on Parabolic Trough Concentrated Solar Power Plant Efficiency

Location on my property is well head is in the shade, would need to create a well house enclosure for a settling tank, pump control units, check flow valves before moving 50 ft or better to lawn would allow an area to place concentration unit no larger than 10 ft x 15 ft at most to make use of. It would not be possible to rotate it for more capture time. This places the water out put yet another 25 ft to bring it inside for storage and use.

The parabolic trough operates at about 75% efficiency and at 495 square foot can collect approximately 270 kWh / 10 hours on a clear day

So from the roughly 75 w a square ft from the sun at 75% means we are getting 55 watts for each square foot.

so 55w x 150 sq ft = 8.25 kw x 2hr  means 16.5 kw hrs will be all that I will get

How Many Minutes To Boil Water Until Safe To Drink
    30 minutes at 160° F or 70° C
    3 minutes at 185° F or 85° C
    Instant at 212° F or 100° C
This solar energy can be used to do work such as to heat water to higher temperatures of 212°F (100° C), killing all bacteria in the water making the water safe to drink.

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/esti … ter-heater

How to Calculate Time to Heat Water

https://bloglocation.com/art/water-heat … ergy-power

Storage of heat for hot water
https://bigladdersoftware.com/epx/docs/ … tanks.html

https://www.bgehome.com/home-energy-cen … r-heaters/

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/getting-in … ng-systems

https://industrialheatingsystems.com/Ho … -loss.html

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#8 2022-05-30 12:27:52

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut ....

I asked Google for suggestions about salt for water softening, and it showed multiple sites (of course)

https://www.health.state.mn.us/communit … ening.html

The Minnesota site seems (to me at least) to be written for a wide audience.

It makes clear that a chloride solution is fed out into the environment as a waste stream, and the salt used for the process is highly likely to add to the amount of salt in the water forwarded to the consumer.

All in all, after reading most of the Minnesota article, I come away with the impression that there **must** be a better way to deal with atoms/molecules suspended in water.

Have you given up on treating your ground water?

I would understand if you have.  You may well have spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars trying to deal with the output of your ground supply, and decided the expense was not worth the reward.

(th)

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#9 2022-05-30 15:29:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

question about the water and well on the property

Granite is the source of the radon that mostly accumilates in cellars.

My well testing has manganese, Hydrogen sulfide gas (H2S) can give water a “rotten egg” taste or odor, this is also the reason for the iron in the water as well from what I recall.

https://www.health.state.mn.us/communit … lfide.html

Water Well Casings: Basics and Material Choice

Well System Componentsdiagramwell.gif

Casing is the tubular structure that is placed in the drilled well to maintain the well opening. Along with grout, the casing keeps possibly contaminated surficial water from reaching the aquifer zone underground and prevents contaminants from mixing with the water.

The most common materials for well casing are carbon steel, plastic (most commonly, but not exclusively, PVC), and stainless steel. Different geologic formations and groundwater quality dictate what type of casing can be used.

Residents in some areas have a choice between steel and PVC, both of which have advantages. PVC is lightweight, resistant to corrosion, and relatively easy for contractors to install.

I think this was the company used to do the work back in 1994 and it was drilled to 280 ft of depth to give it a reservoir to draw from since it had low water gallon per minute capability. Well required from day one a filter and I tried a number of them as well as types.

https://www.juddgoodwinwellco.com/

company for the filter was
https://forestpump.com/filtration/

similar filter type
https://waterfilterguru.com/best-iron-f … ell-water/

The head of the tank had a timer that set the water back washing to clear the iron build up from it.

companies that sell tanks
500 Gallon Elliptical Tank 82" $974 and another 500 Gallon Vertical Water Storage Tank 48" $986

similar products
https://www.plastic-mart.com/category/8 … rage-tanks

of which I can only afford 1 time buy once thinking further about the requirements

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#10 2022-05-31 06:31:08

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re New Hampshire well water investigation ....

Thanks for your continued interest in this important topic.

Is the well pump still working? If you turn it on, will the system deliver well water?  Can you use it for gardening, or does the iron content cause problems for plants?

Question: Why not start this re-investigation on a small scale?

Even a small bottle could serve as a settling tank, to see if anything ** does ** settle.

Have you already done water analysis?  Are those records still available?

Why use old methods?  You aren't depending upon this water (according to your posts) so it can provide a useful test subject for your Mars water recommendation.

I am hoping this topic leads to an atom-by-atom/molecule-by-molecule separation technique.

Nothing like that exists on Earth today.  All separation techniques know to human kind are physical and chemical bulk methods.

It would be helpful to know what your New Hampshire well water is like.

We have a pending experiment to perform.

We have learned that a strong magnet can attract rust molecules, although the attraction is weaker than pure iron.

I provided a link to a demonstration of the difference recently, either in this topic or another topic about water.

It would be interesting to see if a strong magnet would attract rust molecules in a quiet pool of New Hampshire well water.

(th)

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#11 2022-05-31 07:38:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

https://extension.unh.edu/blog/2019/01/ … safe-drink

https://www.usgs.gov/news/state-news-re … ding-human

Common Water Contaminants

    Iron
    Acidity
    Hard Water
    Manganese
    Corrosive Groundwater
    Arsenic*
    Lead*
    Bacteria*
    Radon*
    Road Salt
    Nitrate*
    Uranium*
    PFAS AND PFOA*

Will need to follow up if testing results can be found as they may not

If a tank has magnets at the bottom, is it gravity or the field of the magnets that did the settling?

Yes water does seem to come out clear but over time it turns yellow from what I remember.

Plumbing needs to be replaced to the assembly to make the well unit work again.

No point of a garden when the available land is small and would once I get funds be the home to solar collection.
Keep in mind that the water means destroying clothing when we used it, so that is another $40 a week just to wash them elsewhere that would be returned back into the families budgets and not just the drinking water costs.

why do water softeners use salt?

Salt works effectively as a water softener through the process of ion exchange. The truth is, water softeners do not add any salt to the water. The water softening process breaks down the salt to use its sodium. This means that Calcium and Magnesium ions in hard water are exchanged for sodium ions. This is done in the brine tank or softener unit and not about freezing.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … teners-wo/

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#12 2022-05-31 08:12:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #11

It is encouraging (to me for sure!) to see you getting into the spirit of this inquiry!

To determine which agent is doing what, please consider setting up two experiments, using clear glass bottles or whatever you have on hand.

The need is to have a sufficient body of water to study in each sample, and to have an unobstructed view of the settling.

In one bottle, fill to the top with well water and let it stand with a seal to prevent ingress of bacteria from the air above the opening.

In the other bottle, do the same, but place a powerful magnet under the bottle to exert what influence it may have.

Observations are what will turn this from a fun amusement into a scientific investigation.

If you have never performed a scientific inquiry, you may be able to secure guidance from real scientists in New Hampshire.

Most of us are NOT scientists, and don't have a  clue how to go about performing a study suitable for publication.

The goal here should be publication in a recognized media distribution service, but the first stage is to publish in the non-scientific NewMars forum.

If you are game to embark upon a journey of learning, all of us may benefit.

The atom-by-atom/molecule-by-molecule separation process I am aiming for does NOT exist on Earth (to the best of my knowledge(which is obviously limited)).

IBM long ago (decades ago) showed how to manipulate individual atoms with massive equipment.

Hopefully the human race has made some progress since those exciting days, when the achievement was broadcast world wide.

(th)

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#13 2022-05-31 09:17:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

What I am finding is that the same Trough Solar Collector- Design- Construction- Operation- Maintenance can be used based off from surface area and temperatures for lots of variation for a given output.

until the well equipment is working, I can draw the water from the top of the well which is clear to run an experiment with. I will recover the gallon plastic contains to reuse and make use of 2 sizes of magnets from microwaves that are 600w and 900 watt respectfully so as to show magnet strength to settlement of iron that will get exposed to sunlight to see what happens.

The casing for the well I believe stops at the bedrock which is 60ft ground which means 200 ft is settling and resevoir

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#14 2022-05-31 20:02:29

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #13

Thanks for additional details on the water source and related equipment!

Thanks too, to the insight that microwaves contain permanent magnets!  The results of your experiments should be interesting!  Please be sure to create two identical test vessels, so that you can compare the effect of the magnets in one of them, with the placebo (no magnet) in the other.

When you say "well equipment" are you referring to a pump in the bottom that pushes the water up a pipe?  That would seem like a possible scenario.

I asked Google for information and it came back with lots of snippets ... This one from "This Old House" seems pretty typical...

Well Pump Cost and Installation Guide (2022) - This Old House
www.thisoldhouse.com › ... › Plumbing Reviews by This Old House
May 17, 2022 · A deep well submersible pump sits at the bottom of the well directly in the water. Using its motor, the pump draws water from the bottom and ...

If the pump hasn' t been run for a while, it may be frozen up.

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#15 2022-06-02 21:55:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

Voids link for iron settlement included airation of the water to make the iron fall out of suspension with a source of ozone (O3).

Void wrote:

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Perhaps there should be a topic for this.  I think a lot can be found on the internet.  I think we should seek that before making drawing(s).

Query: "Iron in water, settling tank"

Response: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Iron+in+w … eb9fbb5fa7

Specific item: https://www.nationalpolyindustries.com. … age%20tank.
Quote:

Cascade aerators
The most common form are cascade aerators which is comprised of a series of steps which water flows over. This allows the iron in the water to oxidise and form particles, before flowing into a settling tank. Iron particles then fall to the bottom of your settling tanks, and iron-free water is siphoned into a water storage tank.
Using Settling Tanks to Improve Your Water Quality

So, perhaps I understand a little.  The Oxygen is sort of an Acid?  The Iron Ions then are base.  Then the Oxygen Oxidizes the iron and it becomes particles that can sink and that are not dissolved in water.  I wonder if a pinch of Carbonation might also help to make a very weak acid?

I wonder if other metal ions could also be oxidized into particles as well.  I am not sure that there would be "Lighter" materials then fresh water relative to Oxidized metal particles.

I also wonder about the possible use of Flocculation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocculation

Good chances such chemicals might be toxic for drinking water but perhaps not for wash water?

Query: "Drinking water flocculation"

Response: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Drinking+ … 43c3d115f0

Specific article: https://www.magazinesweekly.com/underst … %20in%20it.
Quote:

Flocculation is the water purification process to remove contaminants from the water. It is the most common process to treat wastewater management, stormwater, and drinking water, making it clean and disinfected to use. The process of flocculation is separating the solution from the sediment and debris mixed in it.
Understanding the Process of Flocculation in Water Treatment

A drinking water article: https://www.drinking-water.org/treatmen … cculation/

Quote:

DRINKING WATER

HOME
WATER FILTERS
WATER TREATMENT
WATER DISTRIBUTION
COAGULATION FLOCCULATION
Many water purification methods require pretreatments such as coagulation and flocculation.

A coagulant is added to the source water in traditional coagulation-flocculation-sedimentation to produce an attraction between the suspended particles. Slowly stirring the fluid causes the particles to clump together forming “flocs.” The water is then pumped into a silent sedimentation basin, where the solids will settle out.

The suspended particles are likewise coagulated and flocculated in dissolved air flotation systems, but instead of sedimentation, pressured air bubbles drive them to the water surface, where they may be skimmed off.

A point-of-use flocculation-chlorination system has been developed, particularly for underdeveloped nations. To purify the water, it employs small packets of chemicals and inexpensive equipment like buckets and a cloth filter.

Finally, lime softening is a technique for “softening” water, or removing calcium and magnesium mineral ions from it. The stuff that settles out in this situation is dissolved salts, not suspended silt.

Find out more about water contamination and water treatment here.

Yes this could be important for Mars.  Although I expect the water there may be "Soft"?  CO2 and Perchlorates in it?  Of course Perchlorates will need to be delt with.

Done.

Iron in Drinking Water

industrial airation tank
OIP.-qmeKaRFBCfJ9xRTaYHyjQHaFj?pid=ImgDet&w=169&h=126.75&c=7

systems design page with elements of what is needed for a home
https://www.cleanwaterstore.com/ozone-systems-9058.html

R.43c9d863c8359cb599497ddad6ebfe85?rik=IAbvt%2bMvUQkaKA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cleanwaterstore.com%2fwp-content%2fthemes%2fcleanwaterstore%2fimages%2finj_well_stank_neut_grs.gif&ehk=cKRwvLhFzZbFyQ2uLGvXm0N2MGcV9N9LCDoQH20RsDc%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0


mars-B4_moons link https://www.freethink.com/technology/solar-desalination

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#16 2022-06-03 17:24:33

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re NewHampshire ground water ....

From Google:

Showing results for why use ozone to remove iron from water
Search instead for why use ozone to remore iron from water
Ozone will oxidize iron and manganese to form insoluble particulates that can easily be filtered from the water. Iron and manganese will build up on the filter over time and must be removed from the process water. A back-washable filter is highly recommended for these applications.
Oct 18, 2021

How does one make ozone?

The Sun makes ozone by striking the atmosphere with Ultraviolet light ...

Per Google...

In the first step, solar ultraviolet radiation (sunlight) breaks apart an oxygen molecule to form two separate oxygen atoms. In the second step, each atom then undergoes a binding collision with another oxygen molecule to form an ozone molecule.
Q2 How is ozone formed in the atmosphere?
csl.noaa.gov › assessments › ozone › twentyquestions
About Featured Snippets

asking Google .... How is ozone produced on Earth?

Is it possible to artificially create ozone?
It is however less known that ozone can be artificially produced, so that it can be used for water treatment. Ozone generators can create ozone artificially by means of extremely high voltages or by means of UV-light. Both methods involve the decomposition of the oxygen molecule. This causes oxygen radical formation.

A related question might be: How to test water to insure safety and potability?

Google came up with a set of snippets ...

How to Test Water at Home with a Water Test Kit | SafeWise

www.safewise.com › Home Safety

Learn how to test your water quality with an at-home water testing kit. SafeWise offers tips for well water, drinking water, and home water testing kits.
Standard drinking water test - WA Health
ww2.health.wa.gov.au › Articles › Standard-drinking-water-test

Feb 23, 2021 · Information and list of laboratory that is able to conduct the standard drinking water test recommended by the Department of Health WA.
How to Use Your Drinking Water Test Kits - YouTube
www.youtube.com › watch

Jul 27, 2017 · If your drinking water comes from a well, the only way to know if it's safe is to have it tested ...
Duration: 2:49
Posted: Jul 27, 2017
How Can I Test My Water at Home with a Water Test Kit? - YouTube
www.youtube.com › watch

Mar 19, 2019 · A home water test kit helps you discover what's in your drinking water. Water may look ...
Duration: 8:16
Posted: Mar 19, 2019
[PDF] Testing Drinking Water from Your Private Well - Vermont Department ...
www.healthvermont.gov › pdf › ENV_DW_testing_wells_factsheet

The Health Department recommends the following testing schedule to make sure your drinking water is safe: • Total coliform bacterial test every year.
Testing Your Drinking Water - Penn State Extension
extension.psu.edu › testing-your-drinking-water

Mar 22, 2016 · The only way homeowners can be certain that their water is safe to drink is to have the water tested periodically.
Drinking Water Quality: Testing and Interpreting Your Results
www.ndsu.edu › agriculture › extension › publications › drinking-water-q...
coli bacteria result in “Absent” indicates that none were detected in the sample. The water may be considered safe for human consumption. A total coliform ...

This Vermont web page is given in the list above:
https://www.healthvermont.gov/sites/def … tsheet.pdf


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#17 2022-06-03 17:32:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re topic ...

Amazon carries a wide variety of water testing kits.

I'm interested ONLY in real-time electronic devices.

Those range from $800 at the high end to $8 at the low end.

What I'd like to see is an electronic, real-time analyzer that uses optical spectroscopy to instantly and accurately identify atoms present in a sample.

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#18 2022-06-03 17:35:27

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re topic ...

I asked Google if there are any instruments that use optical spectroscopy to analyze water:

Analysis of Drinking Water Using ICP-OES - Spectroscopy Online
www.spectroscopyonline.com › view › analysis-drinking-water-using-icp-oes

Sep 30, 2007 · This report describes the analysis of metals and trace elements in drinking water in terms of sensitivity, precision, and accuracy.
People also ask
Why are we using a spectrophotometer to measure the water sample?
Which method is used in analysis of water?
How do you measure water absorbance?
Is water used in UV spectroscopy?
Water Quality Measurements with Optical Spectroscopy - Public Lab
publiclab.org › notes › philippg › water-quality-measurements-with-optical...

Jul 10, 2013 · The same algorithms are used on spectra taken directly in the field to calibrate/validate remotely sensed concentrations. However, spectrometers ...
Rapid Analysis of Water Using ICP Optical Emission Spectroscopy
www.azocleantech.com › article

Aug 31, 2021 · The study presented here was successful in showcasing the Avio 560 Max ICP-OES' capacity to perform rapid analysis – with an average sample-to- ...
[PDF] Advances on Water Quality Detection by UV-Vis Spectroscopy - MDPI
www.mdpi.com › pdf

Sep 30, 2020 · Ultraviolet-visible (UV-Vis) spectroscopy offers an effective tool for qualitative analysis and quantitative detection of contaminants in a ...
Water Analysis using a UV-Visible Spectrophotometer - Jasco Inc.
jascoinc.com › Applications

Mar 3, 2022 · This application note introduces a new method to analyze superficially clean water using a UV-Visible spectrophotometer with a 30 cm ...
Selective spectroscopic methods for water analysis - Iowa State ...
dr.lib.iastate.edu › handle
The potential application to a spectrophotometric chemical analysis based on the selectivity of CCE for Cd(II) is examined;The third paper describes an ...
How It Works - ICP-Analysis
www.icp-analysis.com › pages › how-it-works
ICP stands for Inductively Coupled Plasma, a method we use to analyze your water. We also use optical emission spectroscopy (OES) and mass spectrometry (MS) in ...

Vibrational Spectroscopy for Analysis of Water for Human Use and ...
www.researchgate.net › publication › 233277455_Vibrational_Spectroscop...
13) In the case of plasma spectroscopy, commonly, water samples are sprayed into various types of plasma, and optical emission or absorption spectroscopy is ...
[PDF] Methods for Analysis of Water by Atomic Absorption
pubs.usgs.gov › wsp › report

This manual describes atomic-absorption-spectroscopy methods for determining calcium, copper, lithium, magnesium, manganese, postassium, sodium, strontium, and ...
Analysis of microplastics in drinking water and other clean water ...
link.springer.com › article

Jul 20, 2021 · Clean water samples, for the purpose of this paper, ... The coupling of Raman spectroscopy with confocal optical microscopy and the use of a ...
Low Cost Spectrometers - Mini, Rugged, & Research Grade
Adwww.stellarnet.us/(813) 855-8687
UV-VIS-NIR Measurements Delivery 1 week ARO. In Stock. Immediate Delivery. Same Day Quotes. Highlights: Low Cost Instrument Design, Ruggedized

Aluminum Enclosure.
Spectrometer Models · Spectrometer Systems · Analyzers for Industry · StellarNet Pricelist
Wireless Testing - Real-Time Spectrum Analyzers
Adwww.rigolna.com/

RSA3000N Real-Time Spectrum Analyzer w/ VNA Standard, In-Stock and Starting at only $2,299. Swept & Real-Time Spectrum Analyzer w/ VNA ideal for RF, Wireless, EMI Analysis ...
IoT Test Solutions · Accessories · Contact Us · RF Signal Generators · Spectrum Analyzers

Carbon Analysis In Your Hand - Fast. Accurate. Portable
Adwww.thermofisher.com/
4.4  advertiser rating

Ditch the mobile OES cart and experience true portability with handheld carbon analysis. Looking to replace your OES? Bring your lab to the field with our new handheld analyzer. User-friendly. On-site detection. Portable material ID. Instant, actionable data.
Benefits Of The System · Specifications · Chemical Properties · Antibody Production · Materials
Related searches

Spectrophotometer for water analysis
A Portable Spectrophotometer for water quality analysis
uv-vis spectrophotometer for water analysis

icp-oes water analysis
uv-visible spectrophotometry of water and wastewater pdf
heavy metal analysis in water by icp-oes

water quality analysis by uv-vis spectroscopy: a review of methodology and application
ICP-OES analysis PDF

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#19 2022-06-04 15:30:22

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re identification of atoms in a sample of water...

Mars_B4_Moon wrote about the Chinese Mars lander recently...

The new study is based on data from China's Zhurong rover, which is part of the Tianwen-1 mission and touched down on the surface of Mars in May 2021. In particular, the scientists used data the rover gathered during its first 92 Martian days, or sols, at its landing site in Utopia Planitia. Yang Liu, a researcher at the National Space Science Center (NSSC) under the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), and colleagues analyzed data from three different instruments on Zhurong: the laser-induced breakdown spectrometer (MarSCoDe), the telescopic microimaging camera and the short-wave infrared spectrometer.

I bring this up as a follow up to the Google snippets about spectroscopy.

it seems to me reasonable to suppose a small instrument could be designed to shine a light onto a sample of water, and instantly display the atomic content of the sample.

This would be much faster than the chemical strips offered by Amazon, for example.

Ultimately I would like to see an automated atom sorting system that delivers ideal water (not undesirable atoms but just the right number of desirable ones).

Your well water should be a good test case, because so many of your neighbors are dealing with the same kind of water.

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#20 2022-06-04 21:08:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

2nd time to make a post before the computer goes nuts....

from what I remember the iron was 8x the state standard and magnesium was 3 x it as well. I never did a water retest once I had the iron filter but since it died in  less than 5 years it sort of tells the story that it still was very high in retrospect.

Will need time to set up the experiment and get testing equipment.

edit
what died is the iron filter unit which was after the wells pressure tank which run 35 to 50 psi to move the water in the pipes inside your home which are usually 1/2 to 3/4 in size

img in post 9 show well construction casing which travels 60 ft to bedrock and from there down is open hole that is about 8 inch in diameter.

total depth of well from surface is 280 ft.

well pump has not been used for a number of years but most likely will work and has a 1 1/2" line from the pump to the house pressure tank unit.

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#21 2022-06-05 06:29:26

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #20

Thanks for more details about the New Hampshire ground water you've encountered.

What failed after 5 years?  The system would have included at least these components, and perhaps others as well...

1) Sump pump at bottom of well ... how does the installer put a pump at the bottom of a well?
2) What diameter is the main pipe?
3) What material is the main pipe? I think you said there was a change after hitting bedrock
4) Collecting tank on the surface
5) Iron filter ... permanent or changeable?
6) Costs of operation? Electricity ... Chemicals ... other?
7) Quality of water after treatment ? taste ? laundry ? cooking ?

All these must (presumably) be dealt with on Mars ... there won't be a friendly WalMart on site to dispense plastic bottles at $1.00 each.

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#22 2022-06-05 06:48:44

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut (primarily, all others welcome)....

In the opening of this topic, I called for discovery of atom-by-atom, molecule-by-molecule sorting to be developed to deal with water supply issues on Earth and Mars. By coincidence, an author named Raymund Eich offered a fact article to Analog that includes mention of the technology, in the context of asteroid mining.

Analog issue May/June 2022 Vol. XCII Nos. 5 & 6
Science Fact section: Title: The Believers Shall Inherit the Solar system
Author: Raymund Eich

Begin quotation on page 47:

With plentiful energy, the cornucopia of nanotechnology envisioned in the late twentieth century by K. Eric Drexler in Engines of Creation (Ref 4) has come to fruition. Technologists have mastered materials with atomic precision. Among the fruits of this innovation is the ultimate tool for our asteroid mining colony: an element separator, where bulk matter is shoveled in one end and streams of purified elements emerge from the other.  Downstream, a molecular fabricator can turn those purified elements into whatever finished products they might need, thanks to a database containing almost every conceivable product anyone might want.

Ref 4: Engines of Creation is available on Amazon, in both paperback and hard copy (c) 1986/1987

Google found an amazing amount about this author:

Raymund Eich, science fiction and fantasy author
raymundeich.com
I'm the author of The Confederated Worlds military science fiction series. The Stone Chalmers science fiction spy series. Solo novels The Reincarnation Run and ...
Sign Up for Raymund Eich News by Email · Anthologies · Blog · Book Table

Raymund Eich: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle
www.amazon.com › Raymund-Eich
Raymund Eich files patent applications, earned a Ph.D., won a national quiz bowl championship, writes science fiction, and affirms Robert Heinlein's dictum that ...
Raymund Eich - Fantastic Fiction

www.fantasticfiction.com › raymund-eich
Author Raymund Eich's complete list of books and series in order, with the latest releases, covers, descriptions and availability.
Raymund Eich (Author of Azureseas) - Goodreads

www.goodreads.com › author › show › 5826827.Raymund_Eich
Apr 14, 2022 · Raymund Eich files patent applications, earned a Ph.D., won a national quiz bowl championship, writes science fiction, and affirms Robert ...
Raymund Eich - Smashwords

www.smashwords.com › profile › view › raymundeich
Raymund Eich files patent applications, earned a Ph.D., won a national quiz bowl championship, writes science fiction and fantasy, and affirms Robert ...
Raymund Eich, science fiction writer (@raymund_e) / Twitter

twitter.com › raymund_e
Writer of science fiction and fantasy for Middle America, and the world.
Raymund Eich – Audio Books, Best Sellers, Author Bio | Audible.com

www.audible.com › author › Raymund-Eich
For additional updates, sign up for my Readers Club at http://raymundeich.com/mailing-list/ From Middle America to the ends of the Universe Raymund Eich ...
List of books by author Raymund Eich - ThriftBooks

www.thriftbooks.com › raymund-eich
Looking for books by Raymund Eich? See all books authored by Raymund Eich, including Operation Iago, and Take the Shilling, and more on ThriftBooks.com.
Raymund Eich Book List - FictionDB

www.fictiondb.com › author › raymund-eich~77225
A complete list of all Raymund Eich's books in order (55 books). ... in this short story by the author of Azureseas: Cantrell's WarA multi-millionaire ...
Summary Bibliography: Raymund Eich

www.isfdb.org › cgi-bin
Author Picture. Author: Raymund Eich Author Record # 124960; Language: English; Webpages: raymundeich.com. Image supplied by Amazon.com.
Author: Raymund Eich Author Record # 124960
Fiction Series: 1 The Progress of Mankind (2018); 2 The Greater Glory of God (2018); The Confederated Worlds > 1 Take the Shil...

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#23 2022-06-16 06:41:04

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re water separation....

Are you interested in taking another look at the ground water available beneath your property?

You invested significant sums in the equipment you've reported, but you also reported that 'it' stopped working five years ago, and I deduce you've let it alone since then.  Is it worth taking another look?

The worthy goal of finding a water separation solution that works efficiently and effectively for everyone is receiving attention by academics and amateurs alike, around the world.

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#24 2022-06-16 18:58:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,597

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

I am being pressed for use of the few hours I have and falling amount of them during the weekends to do much other than chores to keep all functioning. As well as picking up other outside chores to keep the place not looking like its fallen into a field of hay or over run by the forest.

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#25 2022-06-17 06:12:12

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,411

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut in Post #24

Thanks for explaining the demands on your time right now, during the height of the growing season.

While we wait for hands-on time to become available, please consider using what little online time is available to begin to build up a set of knowledge that would be the base from which to develop new water separation procedures. 

For example, are there any records of the installation of equipment at your site?  If you don't have records (which is certainly possible) perhaps the contractor kept records for business or government mandated reasons.

You reported that the equipment/system failed five years ago, but the component that failed is not clear.

Depending upon the component, repair might be outside the range of what might be practical at this time.

On the other hand, perhaps the essential component (the pump at the bottom of the pipe) is still working.

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