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So if Mars is already colonized in the future, we have robotic drones and 3d printers make materials for our site, what are the advantages of having a site on Olympus Mons. The mountain itself could be used as an unconventional way to Low Orbit, Rail gun maybe some kind of Sky track or ramjet rocket-jet Air-launch-to-orbit. On Mars there would be no locals so you would not have Hawaiians protesting against building a Telescope on a Mountain of Mars beacuse it offended their religion or culture, activists have legally forced a dismantle older telescopes on Mauna Kea, the protests are ongoing 2014 – present and it has cost depending on who you ask some say its a billion some say thousands or others say its millions of Dollars, it has cost $3 million alone in police overtime. A new site on Mars it could be used for visible or perhaps IR or large radio telescope. Mars has absorbition in the Near Infra-red if I remember correctly, the Earth has far more absorbtion in Radio, Microwave, IR, UV and X-ray so perhaps Mars and the Moon could become part of a larger array joining up with Earth's Radio window, maybe join with the VLBA locations and HSA radio locations around the world, Olympus Mons sites above and rises above dust storms, it would have one of the darkest night skies, it has no light polution, apart from Deep Space it could become one of the best locations for astronomical observations.
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For Mars_B4_Moon re new topic ...
SearchTerm:Observatory on Olympus Mons
SearchTerm:Astronomy from Olympus Mons
This idea might easily win funding for the Mars adventure, if presented to the right people.
Afterthought ... it occurs to me that the combination of rocket launch facility (a) and (b) astronomical facility location is unusual.
Perhaps Mars settlers might prefer one or the other. Or perhaps launches could be scheduled for daylight?
Telescopes seem (to me at least) to be (generally) on the delicate side.
(th)
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A rocket sled running up one the Tharsis volcanoes could certainly provide launch assist. In fact, we could run the sled in a tube that is filled with a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen gas at Mars ambient pressure. As the vehicle accelerated in the tube, the gas would be compressed into a ram scoop and would ignite within the engine. You could not do this as easily on Earth, because the hydrogen oxygen mixture would be flammable at 1bar. But at 0.006 bar, it is too diffuse to ignite.
The Olmpus Mons telescope idea is a good one. On Mars, we could presumably build enormous reflector telescopes and as you say, there is no one that would care to object.
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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Yes but not starship masses which is what some will want. I would think that it would lend its self for long distance sub orbital transit flights.
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Yes but not starship masses which is what some will want. I would think that it would lend its self for long distance sub orbital transit flights.
Some Moon enthusiasts and Mars did the math and point out lunar mass drivers are possible but also perhaps possible on Mars, maybe you would need good satellites monitoring everything
According to the Mars Fact Sheet the density of Mars surface atmosphere is .02kg/m3 and the scale height is 11.1 km. Since Olympus Mons is 22 km high, it seems to me the the density at the mountain top
would be e ^ −22/11.1∗.02kg/m3 where e is Euler's number, about 2.72. That gives a density of about .0028kg/m3
stackexchange.com/questions
. Mars orbital speed at 22 km altitude is about 3,540 m/s. Plugging these numbers intoq=.5∗ρ∗v2
I get a dynamic pressure is about 17,268 pascals, or about half of the shuttle's Max-Q.
So at this point I believe Mars' atmosphere wouldn't be a showstopper for an Olympus Mons railgun.
Maybe it could be a kind of rail gunned launch pad
Perhaps Mars settlers might prefer one or the other. Or perhaps launches could be scheduled for daylight?
(th)
Yes I think that's a good idea you could also use one of the many other Mountains, I think Space Agency are taking the idea for putting telescopes on other planets serious, the Chinese Chang'e 3 lander has an ultraviolet telescope and a camera on the Moon, it Seemed to have been doing both Cosmological and Solar/Earth science
Here is a NASA article about the Need for a Telescope on the Lunar Surface
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/space … Telescope/
the Moon acts as a physical shield that isolates a far-side lunar-surface telescope from radio interference from sources on the Earth's surface, the ionosphere, Earth-orbiting satellites, and the Sun's radio emission during the lunar night. We propose the design of a Lunar Crater Radio Telescope (LCRT) on the far side of the Moon. We propose to deploy a wire mesh using wall-climbing DuAxel robots in a 3-5 km diameter crater, with a suitable depth-to-diameter ratio, to form a parabolic reflector with a 1 km diameter. LCRT will be the largest filled-aperture radio telescope in the Solar System; larger than the former Arecibo telescope (300 m diameter, 3 cm - 1 m wavelength band, 0.3-10 GHz frequency band) and the Five-hundred-meter Aperture Spherical radio Telescope (FAST) (500 m diameter, 0.1-4.3 m wavelength band, 60-3000 MHz frequency band). LCRT’s science objective is to track the evolution of the neutral intergalactic medium before and during the formation of the first stars, which is consistent with priorities identified in the Astrophysics decadal survey.
The Olmpus Mons telescope idea is a good one. On Mars, we could presumably build enormous reflector telescopes and as you say, there is no one that would care to object.
Also the heights of Ascraeus Mons, Elysium Mons, Arsia Mons, Pavonis Mons all dwarf Mount Everest, even the small mountains of Mars Elevation reach giant elevations.
http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Mars_Express/S … LUG_0.html
https://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Feature/1106
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-01-05 12:48:14)
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Olympus Mons: Largest Volcano in the Solar System
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap230404.html
Building telescopes on the Moon could transform radio astronomy because the lunar farside is permanently shielded from the radio signals generated by humans on Earth.
https://astronomy.com/news/2023/04/buil … -astronomy
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It makes some sense as both a lift-off and observation site. Atmospheric pressure at the summit is 0.3mbar. So mass drivers could be used to launch payloads from there without atmospheric friction which could probably damage the device at ground level pressure. It would also be a good place for a telescope, as atmospheric fines don't generally make it that high.
You would need roads, railways or cable cars to climb the volcano. Although tall, the gradient of the slope is only a few degrees, so a railway would probably work. You need to ascend a height of 22km under Martian gravity, which 0.38g. That 82KJ/kg of potential energy (23kWh/tonne). That is not excessive, especially if direct electrification can be used to power the train.
A while back I investigated an idea for terraforming that would have involved mining Martian brine or ice and pumping or trucking it to the top of Olympus Mons. Here, it would sublime directly into the upper atmosphere. UV light woukd have then split the water into 02 and H2, with the latter escaping into space.
Last edited by Calliban (2023-07-27 08:45:24)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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gradual incline unlike many of the mountains on Earth
Mars Express reveals 'halo' on Olympus Mons — and it's huge
https://interestingengineering.com/scie … smons-halo
Recent images captured by the mission offer more than just breathtaking views of Olympus Mons's peak; they unveil an intricate halo.
It’s Official. No More Astronomy at Arecibo
https://www.universetoday.com/163385/it … t-arecibo/
Earth is Noisy
LuSEE 'Night': The Lunar Surface Electromagnetics Experiment a low frequency radio astronomy experiment that will be delivered to the farside of the Moon by the NASA Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program
https://interestingengineering.com/inno … 025-launch
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-27 13:41:28)
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