A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

Void · 2021-09-05 08:14:30

Frozen magnetic mud.

With recent talk of propellant depots, I was thinking on a recent video from
"The Angry Astronaut". I will post that elsewhere some time soon. I was
considering the problems of handling propellants. I thought about water. That
can be a propellant, and is relatively easy to handle. Of course the effectiveness
of it relative to others, and the desire to conserve water in space, or how to get
much more of it, not only from the Moon.

I have had earlier notions of making slugs out of frozen Oxygen to shoot out of
a Mass Driver system. Of course that requires quite a bit of cold, and machines
that we have not yet invented much of that I am aware of.

The values of such a system is after the Mass Driver shoots the Oxygen slugs out,
sunshine should evaporate them, removing a contribution to space collision hazards.

I think the same could be said would happen to Water Ice Slugs, but of course they
are not magnetic. So, put some magnetic dust into them. If the slugs can evaporate properly, the solar wind should push fine dust out of the space lanes. At
least that is a hope.

So, then I realized that you don't have to manufacture the magnetic dust, you only need to go get it from the Moon, Phobos, Deimos, Mercury, Asteroids, and other objects in space.

So, then you might create a slurry of water and magnetic dust, and port it though a ice cube maker (A special new type).

To keep the space lanes safe, some effort should be made to find the best way to
get these slugs to evaporate and also shed the dust. That could be a problem.
Perhaps just before being ejected the slugs could be degaussed.

I worked in a job where we had wet magnetic separator methods.

Energy is then an issue for this system, just as for a ion drive. New nuclear is to
show up. Of course there can be solar.

A very weird concept would be to have Hydrogen and Oxygen, and burn them in an energy production device to produce energy and water. Then to create slugs
for the propulsive system. Methane and Oxygen might also be used. But then your cubes must be made of H20, CO2, and magnetic dust. A colder ice condition.

I think that is very probable that magnetic dust from the Moon or elsewhere, is very available and quite easy to store.

I think it is worth a look.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-09-05 08:33:24)

Void · 2021-09-05 08:49:32

I think that this will be supportive. It talks about using magnetism to control dust.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 191552.htm
Quote:

Luckily, lunar dust is also susceptible to magnets. Tiny specks of metallic iron (Fe0) are embedded in each dust particle’s glassy shell. Taylor has designed a magnetic filter to pull dust from the air, as well as a “dust sucker” that uses magnets in place of a vacuum. He has also discovered that microwaves melt lunar soil in less time than it takes to boil a cup of tea. He envisions a vehicle that could microwave lunar surfaces into roads and landing pads as it drives, and a device to melt soil over lunar modules to provide insulation against space radiation. The heating process can also produce oxygen for breathing.

I think another method to keep the space lanes more clear would be to alternately
point them slightly above and below the orbital plain.

Very interesting about the production of Oxygen with heating.

-------
This next part is perhaps a bit too wild.

I was thinking that if an orbital receiver could stand to be shot at from the surface
of the Moon, and so the slugs melt and quickly freeze, perhaps accretion methods might work.

It would have to be in the Moons shadow when you did that, I think.

Maybe.....

Probably work pretty good for Ceres.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-09-05 08:56:46)

Void · 2021-09-05 09:55:49

And then one can rethink a bit more....

-Could you make something like a "Magnetic Dust Bunny", and shoot those. I don't think they would disintegrate well enough, and might present hazards.

-Could you do a "Nano-Mass-Driver" and shoot individual magnetic dust grains?

-In a case where you might burn propellants for electric energy, the question of
method could be Fuel Cells, or an MG set. That would be an internal combustion
engine coupled to a generator.

I am hoping that the Tesla Carbon wrapped motor might show a way to make
a more efficient electric generator. Don't know.

An item of interest to me would be which might give more propulsion:
-Hydro-Lox engines?
-A combustion device generating electricity to shoot out magnetic projectiles, possibly glued in ice(s)?

I don't think rocket engines are that efficient.....So?

Of course this would not be apples to apples, since you are shooting out magnetic dirt along with ice glue, in the one case, and only burned propellants in the other.

I would really like something that could allow greater access to NEO's, and maybe Phobos and Deimos, and perhaps the asteroid belt itself.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-09-05 10:03:58)

Oldfart1939 · 2021-09-05 10:49:06

The Moon in an inhospitable place, compared to Mars.
Just an observation about the dust issues there.

Void · 2021-09-05 11:18:08

Quote OF1939:

The Moon in an inhospitable place, compared to Mars.
Just an observation about the dust issues there.

True, at least with the technology of now.

I don't think that there are reasons for more people than are useful to human advancement to be there, at least until new discovery changes that.

The Moon does currently win on at least two issues.
-It is closer.
-And because it is closer, time latency is much smaller, perhaps allowing large
numbers of robots. Not dancing ballerinas.

I approve of the Tesla Asperations, but different designs should suit the Moon.

Done.

.

Last edited by Void (2021-09-05 11:22:05)

Void · 2021-09-05 11:25:36

The Angry Astronaut's latest as of now:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=th … D2E4E8EDD3

So, it is a pretty good video. Does mention the Hydro-Lox upper stage which can be used ~100 times, it is said. And they are looking into propellant depots.

I am not turning on SpaceX, but this is a whole different system which may eventually product things of value, and it is quite likely that there may be very many space companies in the future teaming up on projects.

The Vulcan is of good interest, if accomplished.

There will likely be the Dream Chaser...And other things.

I Don't think SpaceX can, or will be allowed to make the Starship the only thing
going forward.

I see this possible mass driver system also possibly fitting in, perhaps along with
Ballistic Capture to Mars.

And from Mars, possibly outward to the Asteroid belt.

I am of the opinion that the "People Farmers" don't actually want their servants of the technological type going off Earth that much. They want to use them here.

So, the donkey pulls the cart and the carrot is always in sight, just up ahead, but
they don't really want the donkey to get it.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2021-09-05 11:32:29)

Void · 2021-09-06 18:50:40

I have at least a few notions of possible options on this.

1) In one case, you would perhaps have Hydrogen and Oxygen in tanks, and might at
times actually use combustion thrusters as needed. Otherwise you would shoot
magnetic slugs.

2) As for power, I guess I am sort of thinking that it could be considered to have
multiple sources of power. Chemical, Solar, and Fission. The advantage may be
that at times you can revv up the power if needed, and also depending on how
far from the sun you were, one two would be more important than the other one.
A mission that near Venus, of course more solar. A mission near Mars or asteroids,
fission being more important. Chemical as a source of sudden increased power.

3) Perhaps less attractive to many standard rocket eople would be to have small
Hydrogen and Oxygen tanks, and a very large water tank that humans could be inside
of. Here you would mostly expell magnetic slugs for propulsion, and would have
larger tanks of magnetic dust, and water. You cabin could be a double walled
container with cells like a bee hive. The inner part could have air in it.
Alternately to go on the cheep, just a set of inserts filled with air that project
into a water tank, and where you sleep, and where you go in a solar storm.

The point is that with the last mentions, you could possibly avoid cryogenics all
together. Just small compressed gas tanks for thrusters used occasionally, and
then the main propulsion being mass driven magnetic slugs.

Of course in this one you then have to be able to split some of the water to fill
the compressed gas tanks. Of course then their is a penalty for having to split
water, that takes machines with mass. However, it is possible that the rest of
the dry mass would be reduced, as water may be easier to handle and more compact
than cryogenic liquids.

I am just saying that it is a thing to consider. I am not really shure where
such a method would pay off, if anywhere. Maybe in the asteroid belt or amoung
space stations. In some cases then mass driven slugs might be a danger to existing
equipment. But not entirely out of the question. Care would be needed.

Roberts mention of magnetispheres is of interest. With a temporary energy source
from chemicals that may be of use as he has suggested for aerobraking and
maneuvering in magnetic fields.

Done.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2021-09-05 08:14:30

A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

#2 2021-09-05 08:49:32

Re: A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

#3 2021-09-05 09:55:49

Re: A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

#4 2021-09-05 10:49:06

Re: A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

#5 2021-09-05 11:18:08

Re: A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

#6 2021-09-05 11:25:36

Re: A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

#7 2021-09-06 18:50:40

Re: A new propellant(s) for Mass Driver propulsion methods.

Board footer