New Mars Forums

Lunar missions is where the future lies according to NASA, Mars is getting cut back the focus now is Moon. So they better make good use of this budget for lunar missions.

U.S. plans moon base on path to Mars
Despite lack of fanfare, scientists work on technological hurdles
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12018911/
Harder than Mars
In some ways, the moon will be harder than Mars. Moon dust is much more abrasive than Mars dust; Mars has atmosphere; Mars has more gravity (one-third of Earth's); Mars has plenty of ice for a potential water supply, while the moon may have some, but probably not very much.

Still, the moon is ultimately much more forgiving because it is much closer — 250,000 miles away, while Mars is 34 million miles from Earth at its closest point. If someone needs help on the moon, it takes three days to get there. By contrast, Mars will be several months away even with the help of advanced — and as yet nonexistent — propulsion systems.

Not having to pay as dearly for mistakes is one key reason why the moon is an integral part of the Bush initiative. The other, as even scientists point out, is that if the United States does not return to the moon, others will.

"The new thing is China, and they've announced they're going to the moon. The Europeans want to go; the Russians want to go; and if we don't go, maybe they'll go with the Chinese," Mars Institute Chairman Pascal Lee said in an interview. "Could we bypass the moon and go to Mars while India and China are going to the moon? I don't think so."

They'll get the VSE done because NASA can't afford to drop the ball again.
What do you think would happen NASA if they messed this up : would the agnecy be broken-up GCNRevenger ?

A lot talk about Chinese is going on and there is a lot of chat on the web about this one

Thoughts on Mars Direct
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/65/1
Dr Bob talking to the Chinese !
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums … 14&posts=2
Zubrin in China
http://whatonmars.com/?q=node/1789
Mars for six billion dollars?
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-01m-overview.html

Just because you suddenly start putting the word 'private' in front of something doesn't make it an automatic success. These guys are big on profit and love to cut and run once the going gets tough - and asides from all their usual problems have you forgotten all the disasters and failed projects of the private sector, Canadian Arrow looked nice but never went anywhere, Space Transport Corp's Rubicon 1 engines exploded on the launch-pad, Solar-sail explorations became a failure, guys like SpaceX have a nice and fancy powerpoint shows with their future Falcon rockets but some say Musk is dreaming and perhaps these guys watched too much Trek or played too many computer games thinking their 'BFR' is going to open up the final frontier. Musk may have some of the better designs than those others but the private sector now has a growing number of Spacefrauds.

Outsourcing can be good and bad, for example giving many of the Spaceprobes to JPL worked wonders and it created Amercian jobs, JPL have wonderful facilites with a wonderful history in American space exploration
- however giving away booster jobs and outsourcing Moon exploration to India, the Private sectors or Russia could be a costly mistake.

US astronomy: Is the next big thing too big ?
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 … 0140a.html
So no one is denying that the JWST will be a first-rate telescope, perhaps even a revolutionary one. Just last August an independent assessment team charged by the project to review the telescope's science potential reported that "the scientific case for the JWST mission has become even stronger" since the Decadal Survey's endorsement in 2000. But what of its expense?

JWST Talking Points & a revised version
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2006/ … .html#more
JWST's current cost is appropriate for a 6.5-m space telescope. The year 2000 cost estimates for JWST (~$1B for an 8-m telescope) did not include technology development (around $230M), nor did they include work done at NASA centers (adds about ~20% to the cost under NASA's current accounting rules). Inflation to FY2006 dollars adds another 18%. JWST also incurred significant costs while the Ariane launch was debated in agencies external to NASA. With all these factors, JWST's cost estimate is now $3.5B from the first day through launch....Despite the desire of some in the community to point blame for space science financial stress at one or two particular science projects, the record is clear that NASA support for development of the new Crew Exploration Vehicle is almost entirely responsible. NASA agency budget growth in FY07 is 1% (removing Katrina repairs), but proposed growth in the CEV budget is 72%. The proposed budget removes $0.4B from science in FY07, and almost $2B of previously anticipated growth in science over the next 5 years.

Politics is very much part of NASA, if you would like to try and set up a totalitarian newmars where no space politics is discussed and everyone supports plan-Bush then go ahead and email your ideas to the Mods. However you might want to first paractice what you preach as you yourself have made some political statements concrening European or Russian space policy.

great find !  8)

You are very wrong, maybe your NY politicans have done a good job in protecting New-York intrests from the effects of outsourcing but in other parts of America things are less rosy. They are starting more outsourcing of the USA's superhighways and rail-system to Mexican drivers, loaders, etc at the lowest of prices, outsourcing any space exploration to India could also be a costly mistake - perhaps in time all that will be left in the USA are legal people and a huge group of people in politics

The Vision was very ambitious to begin with - perhaps overly ambitious with too many goals. Some space pioneers and scientists were critical of plan-Bush but then their concerns were dismissed being un-American to criticise Bush or dismissed as political attacks.
The Vision had many goals : Get the Shuttle to return, do a Mars Sample Return, build a CEV, set up Lunar base, finish the ISS, do 'visions missions' like JIMO and TPF, retire Shuttle in 2010, develop the SDLV, mine the Moon, put astronauts on Mars.

Making money outsourcing NASA to India

?

Sometimes outsourcing and the private sector can produce positive results
for example SETI the search for alien life
http://www.seti.housenet.org/comm_main.html

However other times outsoucring is very bad
http://www.informationweek.com/news/sho … on=Columns
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/baldwin/060318

Bush went to India to defend outscourcing and they are already outscouring lunar exploration to New Delhi.
What would be the impact of trying to outsource the VSE and Mars ?