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I do want to say something positive. Where can I get one of those 10 kw collapsible solar arrays to put on my house?
With that aside, are they intentionally trying to recreate the ISS on stilts?
They are literally putting us right back in the Shuttle-ISS grindstone situation with a pair of 20 ton, 3m diameter payloads a year, with the whole thing being productive after a decade, if then. Are the first ones going to last that long?
Look, I know we are decade away from any of these being built, but you got to be able to convince politicians that this is worthwhile first.
I hope they don't get too dependent on the vertical style of lander. I'm sure its perfect for sorties and small specialized cargo, but when comes to habs, were going to need to switch to a rectangular type. We've got a 10m x 30m faring to work with, and we are going to need every bit of it if were going to get our moneys worth.
I know that its early, and these are mostly engineering studies not intended for public consumption. But if they want the needed funding for this, they are going to have to do something a little more visually inspiring.
What we really need is to get the economy of scale on our side for a change.
For crying out loud, this isn't a reality show.
Bloggers say: Give Obama a chance.
Umm... no.
Take Wiki for what its worth, but I just stumbled on this, and for the life of me couldn't remember it ever being mentioned, nor could I find a thread on it. So I figure it deserves the full once over.
NASA quietly sets up budget for Ares IV lunar crew launch vehicle with 2017 test flight target
Launch vehicle could send lunar lander direct to the Moon
NASA is budgeting for the development of a more powerful "Ares IV" crew launch vehicle (CLV) that could be test-flown in the second quarter of 2017, Flight International can exclusively reveal.
The proposed Ares IV would use the core stage from the Ares V heavylift launcher, two five-segment solid rocket boosters and the upper stage from the Ares I CLV to launch the Block 2 lunar mission Orion crew exploration vehicle. The 113m (367ft)-tall Ares IV would be capable of launching 41,100kg (90,420lb) to 240km (385 miles), with maximum g during ascent of 4.92 and core, upper stage separation at 327s, for direct trans-lunar injection.
The Ares IV, which is about 2.40m taller than the Apollo-era Saturn V, addresses the operational problem of Ares V's Earth departure stage (EDS), and its lunar lander, staying in low Earth orbit (LEO) for up to three months. This requirement, revealed in October on Flightglobal.com, adds mass and complexity to the EDS because of the need for long-term cryogenic propellant storage. That is necessary as under the Constellation architecture Ares V would be launched first and delays in sending the Ares I could see a period of weeks or even months before Orion docks with the EDS and its lunar module in preparation for trans-lunar injection from LEO.
"Ares IV is a study-level effort and not formally part of our baseline today. No definitive decisions have been made, and no specific requirements for such a mission defined. It will remain under study for the foreseeable future, but does represent an interesting capability," says NASA Constellation programme manager Jeffrey Hanley. While the programme has examined many launcher options, only the Ares IV is included in budgets along with the approved Ares I and V.
The new booster could eliminate the Ares V and its EDS. Instead a second Ares IV launch would send the lunar lander, possibly named Artemis, directly to the Moon. After two Ares IV launches, one for Orion and one for Artemis, the vehicles would rendezvous and dock in lunar orbit. In the Apollo programme the crew and service module spacecraft docked with the lunar module in Earth orbit.
If the Ares I was unable to launch the Block 1 Orion International Space Station mission variant, an Ares IV without its SRBs could be used. But NASA has denied that Ares I is not powerful enough to launch the Block 1 and 2 variants despite Orion project manager Caris Hatfield admitting that Orion is about 1,300kg over weight.
Constellation programme budget information and Ares IV schematics have been passed to Flight International following disquiet over the transparency of presentations at the NASA/American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics' second space exploration conference in Houston in December.
Space.com: NASA Studies Early Moon Shot for New Space Capsule
Opens up a few doors I think.
We can still criticize Mars Direct, right?
And that's why I'm in Clinton's corner for this fight.
Clintons not significantly better.
If a democrat win the White House, manned space flight will be butchered for sacrifice to the global warming lobby.
Ah, classic double talk.
But he probably said it in a charismatic manner, and thus got a standing O.
Or, you could just do your forging on a smaller gravity well with much less of an atmosphere. Thats why we have a Moon. NEOs could work as well, but are more complicated. Build some smelters and mass driver on the Moon and you'll soon have more metal plates then you know what to do with.
As for something to apply them too, I've always liked the basic architecture from the Space Island Group, even though they grossly underestimate the modifications required to the ET to get there.
It's getting to the point where the world needs to ban Sharia.
They can probably buy all the required technology off the shelf these days anyway.
If not, all they need to do is make a contribution to the Hillary '08 campaign.
At this point I think the bigger question is the composition of the Congress.
I feel compelled to point out that the goal of the first few launch windows, even the first decade, is not to poke at every mildly amusing rock within a 500km radius, but to assemble, fabricate, an build up a capability to support a growing human population, which can then in turn poke at rocks at will.
Towards this end, we will want to establish a handful of continuously occupied, fair sized bases on opposite sides of the planet built of both local and imported equipment, capable of producing a surplus of life support goods, like food, water, air and fuel. Smaller outposts evenly spaced in between to store supplies, and other wish serve as semi-permenent outpost for more localized exploration.
Within a decade, the entire planet will be open to the kind of purely scientific rock poking everyone seems so excited about.
This will require a massive space policy change. And to do that will require either an extraordinary event or enormous public demand. The former is a possibility, the later is probably not.
It is a huge change in policy. But all it requires is leadership that looks beyond the next election. Oh wait, does that count as an extraordinary event. I try not to be that cynical.
Even if colonizing Mars became a policy goal, using the first few launches to support a "growing human population" is not a sound way to proceed. Basic exploration, testing of equipment (especially the transportation system!), seeing how human physiology and psychology adapt, is critical. All that has to be done before a such a base can be designed. There are too many unknowns. It will probably require a second generation transportation system before such a project becomes affordable. Mars colonization is far in the future, perhaps after a Lunar colony is established. Nice dream though.
It depends on how its done. The only thing we really need to establish a base is an assessable supply of sub-surface water. Anything else will be well tested on the lunar surface, long before entering interplanetary space.
Also, I don't consider such an effort to be colonization, but exploration in the purest sense. On Earth, exploration is piece meal, and not automatically needed to formally colonize. On Mars, you got to know where everything is to plan a colony cause there is no room for error. Of course to do that you have to put a sizable number of people on the ground. Thats difference between the kind of flags and foot prints missions that poke around isolated areas, and a long term, sustained campaign that give purpose to it.
I feel compelled to point out that the goal of the first few launch windows, even the first decade, is not to poke at every mildly amusing rock within a 500km radius, but to assemble, fabricate, an build up a capability to support a growing human population, which can then in turn poke at rocks at will.
Towards this end, we will want to establish a handful of continuously occupied, fair sized bases on opposite sides of the planet built of both local and imported equipment, capable of producing a surplus of life support goods, like food, water, air and fuel. Smaller outposts evenly spaced in between to store supplies, and other wish serve as semi-permenent outpost for more localized exploration.
Within a decade, the entire planet will be open to the kind of purely scientific rock poking everyone seems so excited about.
The gravity question will rapidly become irrelevant when you start asking questions like how big a simulated gravity transit craft would need to be, what size Bigelow-type module can be built to fit into the 10m by 30m faring on the Ares V, and how many of these Ares V launches we can do a year.
The US economy declined in the winter of 2000. The decline started as soon as George W. Bush was sworn-in. You can argue how and why, but it is a fact. The economy is now in major, major trouble. You can beat the drum and claim "We're #1!" but patriotism is not going to address the problem.
Bush was not sworn in until January 2001. This downturn is not fundamentally different than that one, its based on wild speculation and overvalue of a particular industry. Then, it was the internet, this time its the housing market.
Which is not to say that there are not other factors that may not have existed then. The cost of fighting a war prolonged by political correctness certainly plays a role. As does the cost of energy. The fact that the housing market is attached to the banks does as well.
This does not change the fact that the sheer size and scope of government of all levels in increasingly become a grindstone on the neck of the American Economy. This will not change until government is Constitutionally limited to roles vital to national infrastucture, all levels work as one, and legislators are held responsible by their constituents.
First off I have to challenge the labeling of military funding as "discretionary".
I know the New York state budget alone exceeds $100 billion. A huge problem is the state refusing to fund various mandates, thus passing them off onto the counties, so the real cost is probably much higher. The Feds do it to though.
The truth of the matter is that legislators this day in age do not represent the will of the people, but are none the less entrusted with extraordinary power over our wallets. They stay in power by toying with our emotions and selling us stuff we can't afford. They get away with it because we all work to hard too pay close enough attention, and because the Constitution as written and currently interpreted does not set clear roles a limits on what it can and can't spend money on.
Everyone focuses on the Federal budget, but often forgets there are 50 state governments, and countless local governmental bodies all of which are just as wasteful and contribute to the overall tax burden.
Mr. Commodore,
There is no need to irrationally be insulting just because you have a different opinion than other posters. Personally I'm still on the fence regarding a preferred candidate and found your comment condescending and demeaning.
My comments were directed solely at Huckabee and his devout brethren, and allude to a peculiar row in American theology and politics, one that most Americans are not and would have no particular reason to be familiar with.
I allude only because it would be extremely off topic in a space forum to go into anymore detail, but never the less is in my opinion a deal breaker. And given your comments above I suspect you would agree.
Rudy is desperate for Florida.
We'd have better luck trying to get more funding tied to the Economic Stimulus Package.
Was his father the tree?
Those things would be a political and social nightmare.
Private companies support government initiatives until volume drops the price to something private interests themselves can afford.