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It's time to remind everyone that NewMarsMember * gmail.com is an open portal for those who might wish to contribute to projects/initiatives under way in the NewMars forum.
Oldfart1939 just launched an initiative to compose an article about a 17 person landing party for Mars
There will be plenty of opportunities for knowledgeable persons to assist in the project with references, experiences, suggestions and constructive criticism.
RobertDyck is working on a concept for a Large Ship capable of providing Mars level gravity and Mars equivalent atmosphere for passengers travelling to and from Mars.
Noah is working on design of a settlement that might come into being on Mars after initial exploration.
There are numerous other initiatives that can be supported.
Or, if you would like to open an initiative of your own, it is possible to do so.
Please read Post #2 of this topic for application procedures.
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I've decided to put this into housekeeping ....
The nature of an optimum data structure for Noah's project, or for RobertDyck's large ship, or for ** any ** of the projects/visions posted by forum members over 20 years is unclear.
I get the impression not ** one ** of the existing members of this forum (who post) has a clue how to go about creating one.
In past centuries, ** everything ** was done on paper, and in much of the world that is ** still ** how projects are developed, supervised and evaluated. The Egyptians used (according to reports I've seen) papyrus scrolls to record their plans for organizing the labor of thousands and movement of megatons of material.
The Apollo project was carried out almost entirely on paper.
Paper is good! But an electronic system would be better in the special circumstances of the forum, which is a global network sustained by electron movements and the occasional photon, so that information/decisions are transferred between human brains.
Organizing large projects, such as the Large Ship or a Mars Settlement, requires the pinning of decisions ... The path to be followed cannot change from one day to the next based upon the arrival of a new alternative that may be marginally better.
Noah has suggested a crew of 8 people for an expedition. Another number may be better, and indeed, another number does indeed look better. But whatever the number is, it needs to be fixed in stone (chiseled into a block of granite) so that all the decisions that flow from that point can begin.
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Asked Google ... what software does NASA use to plan missions?
About 61,400,000 results (0.65 seconds)
General Mission Analysis Tool (GMAT), Version R2020a
The General Mission Analysis Tool (GMAT) is the world's only enterprise, multi-mission, open source software system for space mission design, optimization, and navigation.Mar 3, 2021Space Mission Design Tools | NASAhttps://www.nasa.gov › smallsat-institute › space-mission-...
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I'm happy to report we have an inquiry from a prospective new member, as well as correspondence from two existing ones.
Captain J Torriani is working on his studies, and taking a very demanding course at the moment.
All to the good, for sure!
Title is "Non-Linear Control" ... sounds about right for a robotics major ..
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Noah wrote with an observation and a question ...
I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the progress of the Development Design topic!
Thanks to ALL forum members who've contributed to the topic, or who are reading and thinking about it.
We have hundreds of members who've been signed up but never contribute. Please keep looking for something going on that is worth the investment of some of your time.
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For SpaceNut ...
Notes were sent to Captain J Torriani and to marc inviting an occasional visit to report on progress.
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The New Mars New Member portal is open for business.
We are looking for members who have taken the time to study the existing 20+ year archive, and to follow one or more existing members, and who think they may be able to assist with one or more projects, or perhaps to begin something new that will support the overall objectives of the Mars Society.
Please read Post #2 of this topic for guidelines.
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For SpaceNut re #157
Thank you for thinking about the example of professional sports as an example of managed capitalism. The policy of awarding the best recruits to the weakest teams means that the league as a whole becomes more robust. So it is with the development of competitive industry on Mars, where a policy of insuring new hires with the greatest talent go to the companies with the least sales. The industry will benefit as the strength of the competitors is kept in balance.
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Please continue thinking about the wording of a poster that Noah might be able to stick on a kiosk on campus, or in an Internet news feed.
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For SpaceNut re #1011
Thanks for participating in discovery of what is possible with FluxBB!
Later today I'm going to experiment with Ctrl/A Ctrl/C ... It may be possible to capture the entire Profile Page in text.
If so, then I can make short work of pulling the needed data from the mash of text. I'll let you know.
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Meantime, I'd appreciate your help thinking through a possible option for you and the group:
From a recent email to Noah...
Hi Noah,
This is a follow up to our preliminary discussion of (possibly) creating a means for NewMars members to support students like yourself by taking an interest in their academic progress, and later in the development of their careers.
This is all in the context of my expectation that the people who will be settling Mars are alive (and most in school) today. Furthermore, the people who will be building the businesses that support the explorers from here on Earth are in the same cohort.
There is a potential for us (forum) to provide something I never got, and which (I suspect) few humans ever get .... an interested group following progress of a student, and perhaps pitching in a comment or bit of advice now and then.
If we can build this properly, the students themselves could become a self-reinforcing community.
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For SpaceNut .... there is a chance Noah may be able to enlist one or more friends who are studying finance/business to take a look at My Hacienda. As you know, the concept of My Hacienda (set in Louis' imaginary Sagan City 2018) is to provide a framework for 7,800 independent business specializations able to support a Level 1 civilization on Mars. The structure we are building in the PlotMaster is designed to harness the energy of capitalism, by insuring there are a minimum of three entities supporting any given specialization.
I am ** quite ** interested in the Major League Baseball model of capitalism (echoed by the football and basketball franchises). In that model, the new recruits are made available at the beginning of each year on the basis of need. The intention is to avoid allowing any one team to become excessive in capability. I'm interested in seeing the same concept extended to the capitalist business environment, to insure we do not see the grotesque distortion that has become endemic on Earth.
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For SpaceNut ... your outreach in the Mars Society member forum has brought some interest in the past, but the early experiments did not lead to substantial results. As we have advanced in our understanding of the new procedures since the Great Spammer Avalanche, perhaps it is time to try again with an occasional announcement over there.
We don't need to admit anyone who shows up for a week or two and disappears. We have thousands of "members" in the user table who fit that description.
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For SpaceNut ... we've discussed the idea of preparing an announcement/poster/advertisement for membership in this forum.
So far, not much has happened, but the opportunities are increasing as each day goes by.
Such a poster should be short and to the point ... the banner for the forum might be a good starting point.
If we had a college student who was willing to post something at a kiosk on campus, or in the college newsletter, that is the kind of venue that might be available.
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For All ... with the addition of Noah to the NewMars community, we have an early sign of what may be possible if we continue to think about inviting candidates to join the forum.
Anyone who would be interest in helping one or more of the existing projects is welcome to read Post #2 of the recruiting topic and write to NewMarsMember * gmail.com.
Members who could use assistance include but are not limited to:
Noah with Settlement Design
RobertDyck with Large Ship
SpaceNut with Carbon Monoxide fueled machinery
GW Johnson with spacecraft navigation course (students needed to break trail)
Calliban with multiple projects including Asteroid mining, Nuclear power for Mars and numerous others
Planning for Ballistic Delivery of non-perishable goods to Mars
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Noah has completed his transition from NewMarsMember * gmail.com.
This portal is now open to others who may wish to join Noah in building out the new Settlement Design topic, or who are interested in helping RobertDyck, Calliban, SpaceNut, GW Johnson or any of the existing members with ongoing projects.
This portal is also open to those who may wish to establish an entirely new initiative, as Noah has just done.
The Administrators and Moderators will assist as much as possible with support services as needed.
This is a good time to thank the Mars Society, and in particular IT Director James Burk, for ongoing support of this forum.
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for SpaceNut and All forum members looking forward to arriving members...
I am happy (once again) to report that Noah sent a question to NewMarsMember @ gmail.com.
He showed images of things he tried that didn't work, for which I applaud his initiative, and the ** very ** efficient way he found to help me to understand the problem. Hopefully my reply will be helpful.
From my point of view, there is absolutely ** no ** hurry about this ... I have attempted to show Noah that the forum has the potential to become a framework for shaping and enhancing his career, so taking great care now at the beginning will surely help to insure success in the years ahead.
At this point, from my perspective, Noah is searching for bedrock upon which to build.
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Today's NewMarsMember inbox included a message from Noah! He has completed exams. I hope that means with success, but the results will most likely not be available immediately. He is returning to the question of how to set up a topic (or multiple interlocking topics) in the forum.
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The mail box at NewMarsMember * gmail.com was empty this morning.
There are numerous opportunities to assist with ongoing initiatives in NewMars forums, or you can start your own.
Read Post #2 of this topic, and write to the NewMarsMember * gmail.com account.
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We heard again from Noah. He has exams this week, so will defer action for the forum.
He asked about how to post images, so i reviewed the procedure again.
He also indicated an interest in creating a topic for his "Settlement Design" interest.
Because the layout of the NewMars forum index does not have a single topic suitable for such a broad theme, it is possible (though at this point not certain) for Noah to create multiple topics with the same title.
In an earlier post in this topic, I reviewed the three options I see:
1) Civilization and Culture because the design of a settlement will shape both
2) Science and Technology because both will be key to success of any settlement design
3) Human Missions because for many years, it is a series of human missions (with assistance of automation) that will build any settlement.
However, what Noah chooses to do is up to him, so i am looking forward to seeing what happens.
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For SpaceNut ... Noah is still thinking about how to start Settlement Design in the forum ... here is a portion of our conversation today ...
6:40 AM (3 hours ago)
to meHello tahanson43206
Yes, I used a template from the book "Mars" by Sparrow and modified it a bit. Surely you as a Mars expert have noticed that it is not the original landscape.
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Civilization and culture is probably the right way, although I see the topic of settlement design more in the scientific-technical area.
Settlement design is about an integration of different themes. At the end is an attachment about a general plan. I would like to hear your opinion from the point of view of content and language.
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I have seen a lot of designs from the 2021 Mars Conference, some have interesting approaches.
On a side note, what do you think about Mars One? Do you think it was a scam or just inability to deliver?Best regards,
Noah
Attachments area
Noah
Hi Noah! Thank you for your reply, for explanation of the Mars image, for the Settlement Design pdf, and for the interesting and challenging question you have posed.The design of the NewMars forum is unlikely to be changed. Change is possible but very difficult (for us) because the administration of the Mars Society does not have time to spend on our part of their very large operation.
I have multiple thoughts about how to approach this ... I hope you will be patient as we try to work out the best way forward.
First of all, your proposal would cover more than one of the existing NewMars Index level categories.
It would include Civilization and Culture, because those will be shaped by the design of the settlement itself.
It would include Science and Technology, since those are both required to actually build the settlement.
It would include Human Missions, because for a long time, humans will be the agents of construction for the project, and for a long time, humans will be "on a mission" to build the settlement.
You ** could ** (if you were so bold) open a new topic in each of those index levels, and post your pdf in the first post of the new topics. you will want to place the image in imgur.com, and enter the link to the image (for bbcode) into the first post.
I'd like to see this process move from discussion to the first post as soon as you are comfortable making the leap.
I will post this reply in the Recruiting topic as a record of our conversation.
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PS ... did you notice the report of a settlement plan I posted in #948 of the Housekeeping topic?
That work is (apparently) quite advanced.
Regarding Mars One ... that was an example of the early failures we discussed a day or so ago. The people did not fail. They learned from the failure of the attempt.
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For SpaceNut re Noah's new topic
Noah is thinking about "Settlement Design" as a topic ... we looked at where the word "settlement" is present in topics, and found three in Human Missions and one in Civilization and Culture. I've recommended Civilization and Culture as a better fit for Noah's new topic.
Human Missions is an index level that by implication is devoted to individual space missions that last for a period of time and then end.
As I understand Noah's intentions, it is to create a topic that will last a lifetime, as it accumulates the ideas and wisdom of numerous individuals and organizations.
The 2020 Mars Convention videos include a number devoted to the 1,000,000 persons city challenge. It is possible that Noah may be able to invite some of the presenters (or some of the team members) to join him in building up an understanding of what it will take to make plans for and actually build a long lasting settlement.
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For SpaceNut Member Portal report
There were no new messages this morning.
For all: This portal is available for anyone who might wish to participate in forum projects.
Open opportunities include:
Large Ship - RobertDyck
Asteroid mining - Calliban
Carbon Monoxide / Oxygen engine design for Mars - SpaceNut
Nuclear reactors of various kinds - Calliban
Mars probe to look for bacteria in glaciers - Quaoar
Ballistic Delivery of non-perishable supplies to customers on Mars
Related to above .. construction of landing pad on Mars for SpaceX vehicles
The entire suite of opportunities organized in My Hacienda
My Hacienda is an attempt to assemble 7,800 individual leaders interested in specializing in one or more of the disciplines that would be needed to achieve a level 1 civilization on Mars. The idea is to create this network on Earth, and to transport it intact to Mars.
Other forum members are invited to post projects I have overlooked in this topic.
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For SpaceNut re NewMarsMember * gmail.com
There were no new messages today.
For SpaceNut ... please continue thinking about how we might be able to develop the work done by GW Johnson into a course of self-education leading to Certification as a Spacecraft Navigator. This might seem like an ambitious goal, but the work has already been done to capture the knowledge required. It will take a while to complete whatever steps are needed, but there is plenty of time, and there are plenty of potential candidates alive on the planet today.
For all ... the NewMarsMember * gmail.com account is available for application for membership in the forum.
To save time, applicants can find the two short essays requested of applications in Post #2 of the Recruiting topic.
Existing members are invited to nominate candidates who you think would be interested in helping with the numerous projects started and not finished on the forum.
Foremost among these is the Large Ship project, which is in need of substantial assistance in almost every phase of development.
The competition for the Large Ship is not yet visible, but there is at least one ongoing effort to build a rotating habitat in LEO.
The Ballistic Delivery initiative is looking solid (to me at least) and it is awaiting an individual who would lead a team to make it happen.
An immediate goal is to build a landing pad for SpaceX starships.
There is an interesting suggestion of building a lander to examine water in a glacier on Mars. The launch window is just over a year away, so if that is going to happen work needs to start immediately.
The outlines of a system to produce mechanical force for operation of machinery on Mars, using Carbon Monoxide and Oxygen as the energy carrier, are in place and ready for development into a viable and long lasting business on Mars.
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For SpaceNut ... just JYI ... Noah is thinking about creating a topic for his interests going forward.
Today I offered suggestions for how to research possible topics by using the Search tool with various parameters.
I forgot to include the use of * (asterisk) to help to pull strings out of longer format words.
My hope is that Noah will create a topic that will stand the test of time, and serve as an anchor for his education in the near term, and later on as an anchor for career developments.
With any luck, the topic chosen will attract contributions by existing forum members, as well as new members as we bring them in.
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For SpaceNut and all ... Noah has asked some questions about how to participate in the forum ...
In the past, we (forum members) have provided guidance on a case by case (question by question) basis.
For SpaceNut ... did we ever write a post that anyone can find easily with tips? There may be one, but I've forgotten it by now.
SearchTerm:Tips for Noah
Here is a part of my reply to Noah today:
Tips for Forum
Noah's grandfather was born in 1933
Ach! 1933! then he is older than Oldfart1939! Oldfart1939 is a retired PhD who may be found in the forum.
If you search for his posts, and look for "chemistry" you may find he is knowledgeable of chemistry.
Thank you for asking about protocol in the forum
First, we try to NOT quote entire posts .;.. you will see some older members who persist in quoting entire messages.
The courteous format is to say: For (person) re Post ####
You will see I do that, and some others. Some members do not attempt to make a connection at all, but simply reply as though there were a magic way for readers to make the connection.
However, let's take this a step at a time ... have you chosen an index level where your new topic should go?
Hopefully this will be a long lasting topic that will record your progress in education, early career, and perhaps even later career, so choosing correctly will be worth a delay.
Once you choose your Index level, you simply click on that index level.
You will see a list of topics created by others. Off to the right you will see "Post new topic"
Choose your words here carefully. We cannot change them once they are created. We cannot delete them either.
We can delete posts.
I bring this up because if you create a topic, you have the right to manage it.
If someone posts in your topic, and you do not want the post in your topic, you can ask me or SpaceNut or kbd512 to move it.
For architecture, you have several choices to consider. Take your time.
As a reminder, My Hacienda is a concept to assemble people who want to design a community capable of living at a high level, and able to sustain itself. This is a lofty goal indeed, but Mars is an opportunity to work toward it.
You will find My Hacienda in Martian Politics and Economy
To find the list of plots, search for [searchterm:] and [:plotmaster] author: tahanson43206
Also, be sure to select [posts] or you will be given the topic.
What I would like to happen is for a separate person to claim each of the 7800 plots, and to decide upon a specialization.
In your case, architecture may be the specialization to begin with, but you may decide to specialize further.
This is primarily for SpaceNut but all are welcome to assist ...
Noah searched for a topic that would be a good match for his interest in architecture for Mars.
Since he did not find a good match, I am asking for your assistance in helping Noah to create a topic which he can then develop as he continues his education and begins his career, and on through the stages when he is able to report on projects as they unfold.
Let's begin by choosing (or recommending) an Index level where architecture on Mars would be a good fit.
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Here is Noah's recommendation for my parachute admonition in the Ballistic Delivery topic:
Diskussionen über Fallschirme sind verboten!
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For many years (20+) this forum has been a place where folks could discuss (and occasionally argue about) topics of the day, or topics of interest for the future. With the decision of SpaceNut to close off registration due to spammers, and to open a new pathway for membership, we have the opportunity to change the forum to now include career development by the generation who will actually be going to Mars.
The vast majority of those who build careers around the theme of Mars Settlement will be right here on Earth. I would estimate the ratio of Earth based supporters to actual Mars Settlers at 1000:1 for many years.
Noah, Captain Torriani (CaptJTorriani) and the members of the Class of 2021 on NewMars will be the leaders in this new cohort.
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For all ... Noah has officially submitted his application for membership.
For SpaceNut and kbd512 ... please approve the application, if you find the essay answers acceptable.
For Noah ... upon acceptance of your application, I will prepare an ID for you to use. I will notify you when the ID is ready.
As explained previously, you will need to activate the Password Recovery procedure. The FluxBB website will send you a temporary password. You can log in, and then immediately change the password to your preference. We (no one here) can see your password.
If you have a problem of any kind, just contact me at the NewMarsMember email.
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" How did you find out about the forum ? "
I watched a youtube video, a discussion about Mars colonization. Then I became aware of Zubrin and the Mars Society. From the Mars Society, I heard about the NewMars Forum.
" How would you like to help the forum? "
I think to get people to Mars, the only way is for smart people to get together. The NewMars Forum is a very good way to do that, and it's essential for synergy.
I am ready to support any interesting Mars topic. But I am particularly interested in Mars construction, the building process, and the application of ISRU.I hope the essays were not too short.
Best regards,
Noah 10:49 AM (0 minutes ago)
to Noah
Hi Noah!
I'm happy to receive your reply, and to see the two answers to our questions.
You definitely have ** my ** vote! However, the two Administrators (senior and junior) must approve your application.
If you have not already started, please begin reading the forum Recruiting topic to see how your application proceeds!
Regarding help with German ... that is very kind of you! I will keep your kind offer in reserve.
We are seeking to establish a long term relationship with our new members.
Does it make sense to you to think about how you can blend your career ambitions into the flow of the Mars Society?
Most members of your generation will NOT be travelling to Mars, but many thousands will participate in making the journey possible for those who go.
I think your interest in buildings on Mars is worthy!
Please consider taking a look at the videos of the recent Mars Convention.
Search on YouTube for Mars 2020 convention, and then look for the numerous videos by teams who competed to design a city on Mars. You might find there is already a team in Germany.
Or, you could decide to become a leader of such a team, if there is not already one in Germany.
If you have not been following the NewMars forum, you may not be aware of the extensive discussion of building on Mars. The archive is (about) twenty years old. The search tool will enable you to find posts about a variety of topics you may wish to investigate.
For the immediate future, please be sure to read the Recruiting topic!
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