New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations via email. Please see Recruiting Topic for additional information. Write newmarsmember[at_symbol]gmail.com.

#126 Re: Not So Free Chat » Pocketful of Espionage? [Spy Coins] » 2007-01-14 21:43:49

See, that's the funny part. Buddy would be buying a pack of gum or something. Maybe trying to make change for the hotdog vendor.

Because that’s how most drug deals go down. Or better yet. The price of the drugs is 9 million 9 hundred ninety-nine thousand 9 hundred ninety-nine and 99 cents.

#127 Re: Not So Free Chat » U.S. air strikes in Somalia » 2007-01-14 16:38:19

Tom, I've harped on about this since the Clinton administration.

At least you’re consistent. The Clinton administration was the first administration to say it is justified to use military action against nations that Harbour terrorist. I suppose that it is your opinion that war by proxy against the US is not a legitimate reason for self defence. Would you hold these views if nations were sponsoring and sheltering terrorists to attack Canada?

It's not war by proxy. There is no national government behind this. It's just a bunch of guys who got together over an issue they feel passionate about, and chose to take action. That means there is no country you can attack, because this isn't a country.

We in Canada have many people with passionate ideas, but Canadians are a bit more sane about political activism. You know: protests, carrying signs at a rally, speeches, newsletters, and lobbying politicians. In other parts of the world they're a lot more brutal, but that's partly because of the environment they live in. What do you expect when the Soviet Union invades to conquer their country, the United States stirs up some religious fanatics who had no influence before and gives them guns, and local citizens get killed over it all. It's ironic that the Mujahideen were created by the U.S. to fight the Soviet Union, a proxy war that they deliberately intended to be a mirror of Vietnam. Both the Taliban and al-Qaeda are off-shoots from Mujahideen, but al-Qaeda is bent on stopping all foreign involvement in any Islamic country. To ensure the Mujahideen would be an effective weapon against the Soviet Union, the U.S. deliberately promoted the value that dieing in a battle against your enemy is honourable, and such an "honourable" death is used to recruit more individuals into the cause. It created an effective guerrilla war against a superpower. Those values were created by Islamic warlords long before the U.S. was founded, but was actively promoted by the U.S. to create the Mujahideen. Now al-Qaeda is using those same values to fight the U.S. and any other foreigner who tries to assert influence in the Islamic world. The U.S. wanted a guerrilla force that could defeat a superpower; congratulations they succeeded, now the off-shot is fighting the U.S.

I suppose you would of rather the Russian’s won. The world has missed a golden opportunity to make this world safer after the end of the cold war. Europe is as much to blame as Bush. The free world is more interested in bickering amongst one another then standing for freedom and human rights. There may not be a leader capable of uniting the free world any time soon like Bill Clinton could.

#128 Re: Not So Free Chat » U.S. air strikes in Somalia » 2007-01-14 14:26:53

Who your friends are determine who you will become?
Citing a movie to make a point (and a bad movie at that)?
If you don't send in troops to shoot people, why give them guns?

Oh, and Tom is still a monkey.

Hey Clark,
I often wonder if Tom’s arguing does more to discredit his position then it does to strength it.

#129 Re: Not So Free Chat » Nuclear Waste » 2007-01-14 13:27:38

Wikipedia has some good information. Apparently it is only put in water to help speed up the decay of the fastest decaying particles. It is later extracted, the water is removed and it is made into a glass like substance that takes a million years for water to dissolve. It sounds quite stable. Apparently France reprocess the waste but there process creates a considerable amount of waste water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

#130 Re: Not So Free Chat » Nuclear Waste » 2007-01-14 13:07:51

What are the facts about nuclear waste? It is my understanding that the amount of nuclear fuel used per power produced is very small. However, it is protected inside a fuel rod. There are all sorts of tools used and everything that is used to handle the material becomes waste. Then when they store it they surround it by water. Why would nuclear waste be surrounded by something that is difficult to contain? I think the waste is very small but I am sure it depends on the technology used. Also it sounds like historically the methods of storing it were very space inefficient. I hope today that they have seriously improved the techniques so that waste is reduced and storage is improved.

#131 Re: Not So Free Chat » U.S. air strikes in Somalia » 2007-01-14 12:38:00

Tom, I've harped on about this since the Clinton administration.

At least you’re consistent. The Clinton administration was the first administration to say it is justified to use military action against nations that Harbor terrorist. I suppose that it is your opinion that war by proxy against the US is not a legitimate reason for self defense. Would you hold these views if nations were sponsoring and sheltering terrorists to attack Canada?

#132 Re: Unmanned probes » Flash Driving Across Mars Sprit and Opportunity. » 2007-01-12 23:33:14

I just tried the trivia at the above link. I got 7/10 (backup crew). I just need somone to get sick smile

#134 Re: Not So Free Chat » Pocketful of Espionage? [Spy Coins] » 2007-01-12 20:05:09

I think this is the best thing I've ever heard. I can just imagine the take down of a store clerk that just accepted the coin. This is some real cloak and dagger type stuff

Aren’t most criminal transactions done in bills and not coins?

#135 Re: Not So Free Chat » U.S. air strikes in Somalia » 2007-01-12 20:00:25

I’m curious Robert. Were you also against Clinton sending cruise missiles into a country to try and get Osama Bin Laden in response to an embassy bombing?

#136 Re: Not So Free Chat » U.S. air strikes in Somalia » 2007-01-11 23:33:36

Robert, the first strikes were by Ethiopia against Somalia. I started a topic about that here:

http://canadawebpages.com/pc-forum/topi … IC_ID=8480

I guess the Ethiopian’s weren’t doing a good enough job. Anyway, the Somalia Islamic courts I don’t think are that nice anyway. I think I heard in some area’s you can be executed if you don’t pray five times a day. That is not to say the US should be launching the air strikes. I am mealy pointing out who you are defending.

Pray 5 Times a Day or Lose your Head
http://www.canadawebpages.com/pc-forum/ … 22&#132609

Somalia Town Threatens to Behead People Who Don't Pray 5 Times Daily
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234817,00.html

#137 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Gamma ray bursts point to dark matter source? » 2007-01-10 20:58:12

Why do we assume each black hole emits one gamma ray burst per day? Does the frequency or size of a gamma ray burst depend on the size of the black hole?

#138 Re: Not So Free Chat » Saddam Hussein's Dead: Iraqi Justice brought to you by Bush » 2007-01-09 00:50:13

Well, i can see this spiralling into an ideological pissing match so i will stop here.

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round

Well you called the founding fathers of my country terrorists, as I am American, I think you can see how I might be offended by that, and I see you are from Canada, thus maybe your ancestors were Red Coats. I for one had ancestors who were Continental soldiers, including a relation to Martha Custis Washington.

Well, the people that started the war of independence were certainly terrorists to the British at the time. The big difference though is they did not go bomb Brittan to win their independence. They also had wide spread support in America. In hind sight it seems that their revolution brought a better life as it was a rebirth of democracy. Later to avoid unrest in the colonies the British allowed, “responsible government” in Canada.

#139 Re: Intelligent Alien Life » Why is the Universe silent? » 2007-01-08 23:37:18

Another possibility is that we can't understand what's being send nor do we know what to look for.

Here is what i mean.

I remember hearing about this theory about communication. We as a race use vocalisation at a certain frequency. What if this alien race communicated by changing the colour of their skin. This is completely different from how we communicate and we may not even know what we are looking at.

Maybe they are using some sort of Inter-Dimensional broadcast... or maybe they hate us.

link action
http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3616600

Translation is secondary. First we have to find a signal. We can recognize signals because they follow well defined patterns. For instance frequency and amplitude modulated signals have a distinct carrier frequency. For the signal to be intelligible the signal should be well above the background noise.

Thus a frequency band should be chosen that is not generally produced by natural processes and is not easily absorbed while traveling though space. Alien races will probably not use amplitude or frequency modulated signals since they are more susceptible to noise. More likely they will use a spread band signal as I discuss in the following threads:

http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5165
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5160

They will probably also use an error correction scheme that can correct for dispersion.

#141 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Can of Worms (Secularists vs Religious Right) » 2007-01-06 16:39:29

Sharpton knows all about making what goes around come around. He makes lots of money by seeing racism everywhere he looks. What do we call people who target others for unjustified legal action based on the color of their skin?

Back on topic, I think you'll find secularists and fundamentalists often on the same side when it comes to legislating morality. For example, their all for "your body, your choice" when it comes to abortion, but God forbid you decide to smoke, or eat anything less healthy than grass. For another, secularists say only science will do when it comes evolution, but if you try to explain to them climate change was occuring well before the invention of the SUV, they suddenly become subbornly devout students of a tiny portion geologic history. And how exactly does having someone say Merry Christmas to you make you be a Christian?

What is your bias for these assertions? Anyway, I am against legislating morality regardless of weather it is attributed to religious people or secularists. As for Sharpten did you see when he was interviewed  by Glen Beck. They agreed on more then you think. You may not like all of Sharpten’s methods but I consider him more enlightened then most politicians

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … gb.01.html

#142 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Can of Worms (Secularists vs Religious Right) » 2007-01-06 15:33:07

I feel obligated to mention that the idea of the seperation of church and state is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution, and was instead an theory proposed by Thomas Jefferson in a private letter to some ministers in Danbury Connecticut.

That doesn't mean its completely without merit. But the only way for it to truely exist is to completely seperate the religion from the people. Otherwise goverment workers of all levels will act roughly according to their faith.

The real issues is of opposing religious views on people. The idea of trying to legislate morality. Al Sharpten I respect very much because he understand what goes around comes around so to speak. Thus the reverend does not support he idea of legislating morality.

#143 Re: Intelligent Alien Life » B-3 Hypersonic-2 » 2007-01-06 14:40:44

There was a sighting of an oval shapes vehicle over O’hare Airport recently. My usual inclination is to believe such sightings are a hoax but I remember seeing hypothetical pictures of wingless hypersonic vehicles. I can’t find the one I was looking for but I found this picture:


b-3_Hypersonic-2-s.jpg
http://curta.ueuo.com/images/aerei/B3/s … nic-2.html

Unfortunately, I can’t find any description of such a vehicle on the web so perhaps it was just something someone random drew on their computer. Please post any pictures of wingless aircraft you know. It is not that I believe the person actually saw something but it is fun to imagine.

#144 Re: Civilization and Culture » Christmas on Mars » 2007-01-05 21:05:18

We are going to have a hell of a time getting a Christmas tree there let alone keeping it alive to see the day. Better bring the artificial one...

if its an artificial Christmas tree you could plant it outside. If you plant one each year eventually you'd have a small forest of artificial christmas trees planted outside the dome. Pump some water out of the ground and through some snow making machines and you can cover the Martian surface under a blanket of white snow. You might want to lay down some astroturf under the snow, so when the snow sublimes a way, you have a nice green lawn that never needs mowing.

That might give a nice touch of home. Others might think it is wasting a precious resource watering an artificial tree. The question I have though is will snow making machines work on mars and if so how long will the snow last. If everything is artificial you could use asbestos like in the wizard of OZ. Of course that would carry certain health risks.

#145 Re: Not So Free Chat » Adjectives and Ambiguity » 2007-01-05 19:03:18

First I want to express relationships between data. Like for instance a cat is an animal or a cat is a noun. Once a bunch of relationships are built into the database I want to see if I can ask it questions and get back intelligent answers.

You might be interested in Douglas "Intelligence is 10 million rules" Lenat's  Cyc project.

Here is an odd piece of Tria:

"Big Cyc ("Cyc" is Polish for "Tit") is a Polish rock band formed in 1988.

The band is well-known in Poland for their controversial behaviour. The cover of their first album, Z partyjnym pozdrowieniem (Polish for With a Party greeting), was an image of Vladimir Lenin with a Mohawk hairstyle. The title of their second album, Nie wierzcie elektrykom (Don't believe electricians) refers to the Polish president Lech Wałęsa, an electrician by education. Their fourth album cover, Wojna plemników (War of spermatozoons) featured a nun drying condoms on a clothes line. In May 1999, the band leader Krzysztof Skiba was charged with indecent exposure and fined the equivalent of $308 for mooning the Polish prime minister Jerzy Buzek during a festival in February 1999."

Perhaps Cyc is the mother of AI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Cyc

#146 Re: Not So Free Chat » Newt Gingrich vs John McCain: Who'd make a better President. » 2007-01-01 23:40:59

I think McCain is the man. As much as I would like to get to mars now, the world needs the United States to be lead by a strong leader that stands for Freedom. Had McCain been leader there is a good chance there wouldn’t be an Abu Ghraib, there wouldn’t be a Patriot act and there might not even be an Iraq war. Abu Ghraib is the biggest road block for people to believing that the United States is there to bring freedom. It is a powerful piece of propaganda and makes the recruiting of insurgents and raising money for the insurgency much easier. Bush’s biggest failure is in the war of words and ideas. His military tactics are secondary.

#147 Re: Not So Free Chat » Adjectives and Ambiguity » 2007-01-01 00:21:26

Minsky talks a bit about this in _Society of Mind_

http://www.amazon.com/Society-Mind-Marv … 0671657135

He blackboxes the decision with a _More_ agent (i.e., decides "is greater than") that is located in a network of agents (the whole network of agents is the society of mind, agents can be complex or single-neuron simple).  There might be just one _More_ agent but there are probably many of them - maybe no single agent can compare apples and oranges, maybe it can.  The comparison agent _More_ may be different from, but linked to, the language agent _More_ (observe each of listening, speaking, reading and writing seem to eventually connect to the same language agent).  Each individual mind may structure the network differently.

I’ve heard about multi agents before. A student that had the same supervisor as me was doing his thesis on multi agent systems. He was building a system for an oil company to combine multiple fault detection techniques. I don’t think human’s work in this fashion because personally I can’t concentrate on very many things at once. Although the human mind has a highly parallel architecture.

Today I was thinking about how AI could be applied to a diet program. I was thinking how on packaging they list the ingredients in food but they don’t tell you how much of each ingredient. However they give the composition of the food in terms of vitamins and if you assume the composition of the food in terms of vitamins is made up of a linear combination of the ingredients you should be able to estimate how much of each ingredient there is.

One might try to solve this problem with matrix inversion but some ingredients with virtually no nutritional value will lead to an ill conditioned matrix inversion. Say you have access to visual basic, MATLAB and not a lot of money to by extra packages for visual basic. You might write a short script in visual basic to solve the problem based on ridge regression because it keeps you having to worry about numerical issues like pivoting.

You might write one or more complex techniques in MATLAB to deal with the problem because it has built in algorithms created by experts in their field. Now the visual basic algorithm you can probably run as a thread in the background or maybe it will be fast enough that you won’t even to bother to run it as a thread. It will give you a crude quick answer and let you proceed.

MATLAB is a large process and you might want to access it via a server on another computer. It can only handle one process at a time and two instances of MATLAB running on one computer don’t share resources well. IF the algorithm in MATLAB is sufficiently more complex it might take a while and even if it runs quick, the MATLAB resource could be tied up solving a more difficult problem that you previously requested it solve.

As a consequence you might have to wait for the answer. The main program can do two things. It can create an ID representing the problem and each answer can be uniquely stored and linked to the question so it can be used when needed. With this kind of architecture you can use the crude answers to provide early solutions to problems and will have access to better answers latter to improve the solution. Thus in my diet example as you enter in new food information, you can get a quick answer of what you ingested and later in the day if you are curious you can check to see if more sophisticated techniques changed that answer much.

Another point is have the program set up to use several techniques will allow people to utilized what packages they have available. Not everyone may have access to complex software packages running on other computers so if these auxiliary systems aren’t configured the software will still be able to function and return an answer.

#148 Re: Civilization and Culture » Christmas on Mars » 2006-12-31 23:14:40

We are going to have a hell of a time getting a Christmas tree there let alone keeping it alive to see the day. Better bring the artificial one...

smile Spruce are a pretty hardy tree. They can grow near the water with salt spraying on them. They also handle cold temperatures and wind well. Not that there will be any wind in a dome.

#149 Re: Not So Free Chat » Saddam Hussein's Dead: Iraqi Justice brought to you by Bush » 2006-12-31 23:04:54

What's worse, a random terrorist bomb that just may get you as you happen to walk by, or Saddam's secret police hunting you down?

Damn it. You really know how to piss me off. You just answered your own question. A random terrorist bomb is much worse because it is random. It goes after people doing their normal activity. During the Saddam era. The security forces would only come after you if you did something that threatened Saddams power. Which means that you knew what you were doing before you did that.

To each there own. Not everyone would agree with you:

'"Give me liberty or give me death" is a famous quotation from a speech made by Patrick Henry to the Virginia House of Burgesses.

The speech was given March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia, and is credited with having single-handedly convinced the Virginia House of Burgesses to pass a resolution delivering the Virginia troops to the Revolutionary War. In attendance were Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. Reportedly, the crowd, upon hearing the speech, jumped up and shouted, "To Arms! To Arms!"'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_li … e_me_death


The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself…."-John Stuart Mill (1868)”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

#150 Re: Not So Free Chat » Saddam Hussein's Dead: Iraqi Justice brought to you by Bush » 2006-12-30 22:15:45

Really justice? Seeing that Life under US occupation is worse then Life under Saddam.

List of US casualties. Notice an Increase? Don't make me show you the Iraqi casualty graph.

iraqyn3.png

The violence in Iraq will just continue. The Sunni don't want a secular government any more. Now thanks to the Invasion they want an Islamic country.  Well done bush. You managed to turn them away from the secularity that you want Iraq to be. Now Al qaueda is in Iraq. Before when Bush was lying there were no Al Qaeda in Iraq. Now they are rooted in Al Anbar and they are stronger then ever. Stronger then they were in Afghanistan. They now also know more tricks and new ways to make explosives. They also have a new pool of recruits.

That is an interesting graph. When you listen to the media you would think the country was spiraling out of control yet the US casualty rates seem to be remaining constant. I find it odd you say the Sunni’s don’t want secular government. It is not like they have the numbers to force there will on the rest of the people. If the Sunni’s have no will to compromise then they are to blame for whatever consequence could come in a future Iraqi civil war. If Al Qaeda is stronger then ever then so must be the American’s otherwise why don’t we see a significant escalation in the causalities.

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB