New Mars Forums

Did we find similar spherules resulting from impact ejecta on the Moon?
    If these martian spherules are indeed the result of impacts, shouldn't we have found large numbers of them strewn across the lunar surface too?
   (And I don't mean glassy tektites; these martian oddities are too spherical and of a different texture.)

    I certainly hope Steve Squyres and the team come up with an explanation for these objects during the course of these MER missions. I don't want to have to wait until 2009 with a big question mark hanging over them; I think I'd go crazy! ( ... All right ... crazier!! )   

When I signed off on that last post, Rxke, I had a premonition you might mention Viking!
    I don't have a coherent hypothesis about the possible metabolic pathways in martian bacteria (assuming there are any, and I still think there are) because I simply don't know enough about microbiology.

    Your point about the lack of chemical evidence for a martian biosphere is a very good one and it's bothered me for a long time. A strong sequence of logical steps has led me to believe a sterile Mars is virtually an impossibility. But if there is life, and if it is essentially made of the 'same stuff' as terrestrial life, where are the chemical markers of its existence?
    I can't abandon the concept of a martian biosphere because, at least to me, the logic is just too compelling. So that leaves me with the task of finding an explanation for the lack of tell-tale metabolites in the martian environment.
    Maybe the metabolites are actually there but in low concentrations due to the population of bacteria in the regolith being very small by Earthly standards. Maybe we simply haven't looked hard enough(?).
    A second possibility is the one I mentioned in my last post, that the organisms on Mars are extraordinarily frugal, guarding and conserving every scrap of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen they can find.

    But then, Dr. Gilbert Levin's (in)famous Labeled Release Experiment (LR) on both Viking landers produced data consistent with a flurry of metabolic activity by martian soil bacteria. The evidence took the form of a large release of radioactively-labelled volatiles.
    If my martian organisms are so economical and thrifty with such compounds, why did they release such large amounts with such frivolous abandon?!

    Perhaps the answer lies in what you suggested, Rxke. The sudden introduction of so much relatively hyposaline water, may have disrupted the organisms' metabolism and cell structure fatally. But maybe they first gorged themselves on the fresh water and nutrient, uncharacteristically releasing large volumes of volatiles, before sef-destructing(?).

    I realise what a long line of baseless speculation my arguments represent but I think it's a good thing to put hypotheses 'out there' for others to criticise.
    Have we looked hard enough for trace amounts of gaseous metabolites in the martian air? Is there perhaps a scaled-down version of Gaia at work in the martian regolith? Can exotic superoxides exist in soils which are moist with brine, or were the Viking LR results our first data on martian metabolism at work? Did we effectively 'drown' a few thousand dry-adapted halophilic martian organisms in fresh water?
    Any thoughts?
                                             ???   

There's already a whole torn chunk of airbag lying on the surface in one picture. Evidently the bags were dealt some damaging blows during landing.
    I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine a few individual fibres could detach from the frayed edge of a tear in the material and fall to the ground separately.

    If this thread were biological in origin, wouldn't we have seen many more of them in the photos by now?
    I guess we'll just have to wait for more evidence.
                                                      ???

One of Arthur C. Clarke's first books was called "The Sands of Mars". It's still one of my favourite books even though it is hopelessly dated now, portraying Mars as considerably more hospitable than we know it to be these days.
    In the book there were hardy leathery martian plants with pods, and slow moving animals which grazed on them. It turned out the pods were full of oxygen and the animals absorbed it by ingestion rather than inhalation.

    The point I'm making is in response to Rxke's comment about the lack of gaseous signatures of life in the martian air, though I'm not yet certain such signatures are entirely absent.
    Is it not possible that organisms on Mars have gradually adapted to a situation in which the waste of volatiles like oxygen, methane, etc., is simply not an option? Perhaps the surviving life forms, used to long periods of deprivation, have developed metabolisms which store almost everything in order to 'trade' it in symbiotic relationships with other organisms.

    We really should avoid the temptation to assume that the habits of terrestrial organisms will necessarily be duplicated by any we find on Mars. The conditions are very different between the two planets and we must be ready for surprising survival adaptations.
    We are fortunate to live on a bountiful planet where the living is easy and we can afford to throw things away. I doubt martian microbes can afford to be as cavalier.
                                         ???

They're talking about possible briny water existing in the soil at the Gusev site, which might be why the soil is sticking to Spirit's wheels.
    They emphasise they're talking about very small amounts of water but they'll dig a trench with a wheel soon and see if the deeper soil is also 'clingy'.
    They pointed out they're not expecting a pool of water in the bottom of the trench!
                                                   

[Why not?!!       :;):  ]

Where are all the breathless commentaries from mission scientists about the photos coming back? Where are the interesting analyses of the soil composition and the rock strata?

    Sheesh! Half the people here at New Mars have taken to arguing about Iraq again, it's so quiet at JPL .... !
                                         

Thanks, Replicant7, and welcome to New Mars!   

    It's great to see so many enthusiastic 'new' people here. Now, if only we can keep this energy going and make sure the Bush space initiative doesn't die on the vine like his old man's did!!
                                         

Wonder what the pale stuff is?    ???
    More of the material the outcrop's made of?
    Carbonate?

I'm really not that knowledgable about Saturn Vs, Cindy, though I do remember a few salient points about them. I think you tend to remember things which make an impression on you and I was 13 years old when Borman, Lovell and Anders orbited the Moon. I'd just turned 14 the month before the first Moon walk.
    I loved everything to do with that golden era and lapped up every T.V. broadcast I could find about every mission, not just the BIG one! Of course, it became progressively more difficult to find any T.V. coverage after Apollo 11 because of the 'been there, done that' mentality of the media and most of the public. (What is WRONG with people?! )

    I bought a Revell model of the Apollo Command/Service Module and Lunar Excursion Module and lovingly painted and assembled each part, sticking the lettering and little U.S. flags painstakingly in just the right positions. There was a panel representing the lunar surface, on which to stand the LEM, and I painted that to look as close to the colour of Moon soil as possible. There were small figures of astronauts with even smaller visors on their helmets. But each visor I carefully painted in gold, just like the real thing!
    That model took pride of place on a table in my bedroom and I would bring it downstairs for each Moon expedition and 'educate' my long-suffering parents about each stage of the missions!  :laugh:
    I felt they didn't truly understand the mechanics of the journeys and that, somehow, if I could just make them understand the intricacies of the manoeuvres and the precision and distances involved, then they would be as wildly enthusiastic as I was.
    My efforts failed! Although they paid lip service to the achievements of Apollo .. "Aren't they clever people" ... I could see in their eyes that they really didn't 'get it'. And all of my life I've seen the same look in so many eyes, which have glazed over as their owner politely stifled a yawn whenever I've said too much about space exploration (and 'too much' doesn't have to be very much, with most people). I rarely speak of space to anyone now, whether a friend or just an acquaintance, even if asked a direct question about it. I keep it down to a '10 second sound bite' with little or no detail because I know the question was only asked out of politeness; they know it's a subject I'm interested in but they know nothing about it and aren't really interested in it themselves. (It's nice of them to ask, I guess.)

    That's one of the reasons I enjoy New Mars so much ... I can't see your eyes glaze over and I can't hear you yawning!!
                                              

Brian, I see Dr. Zubrin in exactly the same way you do; he's a visionary, a genius, and a national treasure!
                                             

    I very much hope, as you do, that his enthusiastic brilliance won't burn itself out hammering on the dull barriers of luddite ignorance and inertia which stand between humanity and its rightful place as a spacefaring civilisation.
                                                    ???

Nice pictures, thanks Cindy!   

    I'm not quite sure about this but I think the long dark features often associated with dust devils in these images aren't shadows (I could be wrong).
    I think they may be long tracks where the dust devil has cleaned lighter surface dust away from the underlying darker material.
                                               ???

Merci madame!
    Glad you liked the perfume names.

    I'm also glad you were kidding about the clothing thing; I don't think everybody would look good in silver spandex. As long as there's a choice, I'm going for the Pericles look rather than the shiny longjohns!!