New Mars Forums

It's a good "wild flicker of a thought", Rik! 

    I suppose you heard that, when Deinococcus Radiodurans (known to its fans as 'Conan the Bacterium') was discovered breeding happily in nuclear reactors, the Russians hypothesised that it may have developed on Mars(?).
    Its amazing durability, especially to radiation, combined with known conditions on Mars and the probability of frequent impact transfer between there and Earth, led them to this tentative conclusion.

    So, in the event we actually use this remarkable little critter on Mars to change conditions in our favour, we may just be sending some long-lost bugs on a sentimental journey home!
                                             

"Kaputtnik? .. Nogoodnik?"
    Ha-ha!!  :laugh:

    Nice work, Rik, but have you tried not inhaling so deeply on those funny cigarettes of yours?   

If, if ,if ... !!
    The Fallujah Brigade (is that their official title?) is an experiment in a tricky situation for the coalition. There's no chance of any military defeat, as such, regardless of whether the Brigade turns against us or not. The coalition's military supremacy is complete, in any conventional sense. Though the few thousand well armed fanatics we're having to deal with are indeed a very significant problem, for the time being.

    I believe the way the coalition deals with the individuals responsible for the disgraceful degrading of Iraqi prisoners, will be sufficient to prevent the great majority of Iraqi civilians passing up this opportunity for a free and prosperous country they can at last genuinely say is their own. I still have faith that most Iraqis are intelligent and reasonable people and they can see already how Iraq will be when the violence is over.

    Of course Iraq isn't secure at present. There are elections still to be held. The forces attempting to bring about an Islamic theocracy in Iraq still feel they have a chance to scuttle the plans for democracy.
    The recent situation in Spain has no doubt been a shot in the arm to these thugs because it looks as though violence has brought them a good result.

    Let's not allow ourselves to wallow in pessimism just yet. The noble cause in Iraq is not yet lost.
                                       

Hmmm.
    Yeah, Rex. I suppose if that really is a small patch of water/brine, or even ice, they'd have to re-write quite a bit of stuff about Mars. And start looking more seriously at some of the images you've drawn to our attention in the past. (And maybe let poor old Dr. Gil Levin back into the fold as well! )
                                                         

1) The Soviet Union.
2) 1959.
3) ?
4) Dog .. breed  ?
5) Laika.
6) No, died in orbit when the air supply ran out.

What proportion of erstwhile Palestine is now part of Jordan?
    I think I read somewhere recently that 2/3rds of what was once Palestine is now part of Jordan. Is this true?
    If so, why do the Palestinian people not lobby for its return?

Hi Alt2War,
    The hardcore of the left-wing in any country are passionate people. I admire them for the strength of their convictions (even if I've 'been there; done that' and understand now the futility of their position) and their willingness to get out into the streets.
    But, as an indicator of the general feeling, big protests, like the ones you mention, leave me cold. Even if we assume the figure of 500,000 for New York is accurate (always difficult to judge these things), it still represents only a small percentage of the local population, about 6%. And the fact that left-wingers tend to be younger, more radical, more vocal and possibly more excitable, means that such protests are to be expected. They certainly shouldn't be taken as any indication, on the day, that the majority of people feel the same way.

    Having said that, I hear you about the political backlash in certain countries. Tony Blair has certainly been doing it tough in Britain in recent months, Australia's John Howard has been sniped at repeatedly in the press over Iraq, and your President Bush's popularity ratings are, I believe, pretty low.
    Given Spain's popular antagonism towards involvement in the liberation of Iraq, I applaud the new socialist government's adherence to its promise to bring the Spanish troops home. This is democracy at work and, despite its inherent flaws, it's the best system we have. My personal belief, however, for what it's worth, is that the Spanish people have got it wrong.

    The coalition has made an example of Iraq in a world full of religious extremists who cannot be bargained with. Sad to say, but someone who cannot be bargained with will only understand strength. Witness the mood in Iran and Libya.
    Bill White's plea to tackle the root of the extremist problem, the Islamic hate schools, is typically intelligent and should be listened to, but having Saddam as a loose cannon in the Middle East was unacceptable politically and morally after 9/11, and his removal was justified.

    History will judge the coalition favourably, in my view, just as it has judged Reagan favourably for his stance against the Soviets. You'll no doubt recall the protests against him in the 80s - not against the cruel Soviet Empire, mind you, against the voice of liberation!
    The left-wing is one mixed up bunch of well-meaning fools.
                                                 

That 'cell frequency' diagnostic test is getting close to the rotating crystal contraption Dr. McCoy used on "Star Trek" to work out in a jiffy what was wrong with crew members of the Enterprise.
    Who knows? Maybe the German guy is on to something.

    It's difficult, though, to imagine how a machine detecting various frequencies of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) could track down the individual radiation emanating from one or a few particular atoms in one or a few particular cells in a human body. I don't know how many cells there are in an average human, nor how many atoms there are in an average human cell, but it's gonna be a big number!
    All atoms, at temperatures above absolute zero, emit EMR (infra-red and radio waves, for example). So this new machine will be picking up EMR from atoms in the person being examined, EMR from the atoms in the machine itself, EMR from the air molecules in the room, EMR from outer space, even EMR from the fillings in the doctor's teeth! If it's sensitive enough to focus on radiation from the atoms in small groups of cancerous cells deep inside a human body, it'll pick up radiation from everywhere.
    Wouldn't it be tricky to eliminate all the background emissions and get an accurate reading on the problem areas?
                                            ???

A small puddle would certainly be inclined to evaporate away quickly if it resulted from rainfall and had no means of replenishment.
    But what if there is actually a near-surface water table in this area of Mars? (Or should I say 'brine table'?) Wouldn't that feed low lying parts with fresh brine?
    It's difficult to judge from these photos, but it looks like the 'puddle' is at the lowest point in the picture - the place you'd expect to find water, if there were any water to be found!
                                                       ???

Wow, Chaosman!
    That certainly looks like a puddle, or frozen puddle, to me. In fact, I find it very difficult to imagine what else it could be.
    So, where's the JPL commentary?
    Why isn't there any public discussion about this potentially important development?

    Incidentally, if that's a small pool of water ice, my wife's assessment of the 'dunes' at the bottom of Endurance crater is starting to look better and better!
                                             

Thanks, Alt2War, for the links to news items about the alleged U.N. corruption. My impression is that it will take a long time to get to the bottom of this one. If enough people in high places, for example former ministers in the French government and politicians in Russia, were actually involved in bribery, one can imagine the lengths to which they'll have gone to cover their tracks.
    I think about the possible consequences of U.N. corruption, if it happened: The time lost in dealing with Saddam, in tracking down WMD which may have been shifted to places like Syria or Iran, the lives lost through sanctions while 'oil-for-food' was being abused, even the possibility that U.N. voting could have been influenced!
    What if votes against a U.N. mandate for war in Iraq were only made because some people were 'on the take' - a distinct possibility if the corruption did exist? Imagine the (necessary, in my view) war having been undertaken under the wing of the U.N. The grounds for misguided and inflammatory Arab objections to it would have been very significantly reduced. The whole scene in Iraq today could have been so much better and Al-Qa'ida's opportunistic use of the invasion for propaganda purposes very much less effective.

    If a few hundred people, driven by unscrupulous self-interest, have actually done what is being suggested here, their crime is terrible.
    Any suggestion that such appalling behaviour might be 'unscrupulous but not illegal' is a moral nonsense. If it isn't covered by any current legislation, then let's introduce new legislation to ensure such actions are definitely punishable by law - and very severely, too!

    Phew! It's times like this I despair of humanity. What kind of a species are we that we can, with ample historical precedent as justification, entertain the thought that some of our number are capable of such treacherous selfishness?!
                                                     

Just to return the favour you did me, Alt, the last time I got a little forthright about politics, I'll give you the same advice you gave me:-
    "You need to relax, man."

    You make it sound like I'm very naive to quote an editorial - as though I'm breaking the simplest rules of good debate and showing my ignorance. (I wasn't even trying to start a debate - just state an opinion.)
    I think you may not realise what it is I'm trying to tell you. That editorial is about all I've got on the story so far! It's the lack of news items about this alleged corruption that forms one of the main planks of my complaint. Considering that verification of the allegations would, at a stroke, eliminate any pretence that the U.N. occupied some sort of moral high ground in the Iraq affair, I thought the news item should have been given at least as much airtime or as many column inches as the anti-war propaganda has received, in such generous measure, here in Australia.
    Incidentally, I've been reading The Australian newspaper for many years and I've almost always found the editorials to be frank and sensible in their general tone. I admit I was a little nervous quoting this one, since I'd seen no other reference to the story, but I had enough faith in the objectivity of the paper to go ahead anyway. I'm relieved to hear that CC has found some reference to it in the American media because there's precious little about it here!

    By the way, CC, since you seem to live on another flat face of the same cubic bizarro world I occupy (according to Alt    ), perhaps you would let us know if you hear any further news about the guys at the U.N. who opposed the war on a matter of high moral principle? As and when I hear anything I'll try to do likewise.
    It could be a very interesting tale!