New Mars Forums

I want to speculate on things that I desire, but cannot in a substantial way, affirm good methods to achieve these desires.  But this can have value as it indicates where we could look to find ways it could be done.

Supposing that the raw materials of Venus could be to some extent converted to resources.  The Atmosphere of Venus might have been swollen a bit by a greater heating, and a artificial magnetic field imposed to reduce the loss of gasses being swept away by the solar wind.

The atmosphere of Venus would in itself be a raw materials source.  Eventually it might become possible to mine the surface of Venus even if it is very hot.  But before that asteroid materials could be brought to Venus, and possibly materials from the Planet Mercury.

A primary reason I want a magnetic field for Venus is that I view the construction of orbital habitats as being of a good potential to create wealth.  But such structures will leak.  I want the leakage to go back into the atmosphere of Venus rather than to be pulled away by the solar wind.

Nitrogen is something that Venus has that has some value.  Carbon Dioxide could become a chemical method of propulsion.  At the very least CO and O2 might be worth the trouble in orbital space.  And possibly Carbon itself could be preheated with solar energy and then burned against Oxygen.

But Carbon can also be a construction material.  Although not as good as water, Carbon and Dry Ice might be suitable to be radiation protection.  Of course, in the orbit of Venus maintaining Dry Ice as to not evaporate could be a challenge, but I think not impossible.

Of course a method to extract the materials from the atmosphere of Venus would be needed.  Ascender, Rotavators, and rockets might be possible in the future.

A thing I have in mind is a conveyor method to move atmosphere from Venus to other worlds like Mars.

If regolith derived materials could be used along with atmosphere from Venus, then these habitats could be moved at a slow speed to eventually orbit Mars.

If a protective magnetic field were installed around Mars, then when these habitats leak the gasses might then accumulate into the atmosphere of Mars and then be available to recycle.

A multihull method could help to conserve N2 and O2, on a long travel from Venus to Mars Orbits:

Pumping methods would return leaked gasses to the appropriate shell as they did try to leak out into the vacuum of Space.  A bit of CO2 in the outermost compartment might help to keep leakage into space at a minimum.  Ideally the outer compartment would not be pressurized to the point of viscous flow, so molecular flow would dominate.

I recall reading that a generation ship sent to the nearest star would be completely drained of atmosphere by the time it arrived at that star.  And so being familiar with high and low vacuum systems, I have devised this method of trying to postpone that event, perhaps to allow the retention of atmosphere until arriving, and possibly longer.

The core chamber in the center is 1 bar N2/O2.  Actually, it might be up to 5 bars, I think.  We hope for it to arrive at Mars with an excess of atmosphere, especially Nitrogen.

Then in this plan slow leakage might being the highest pressure within, down to 1/2 Bar N2/02 mix, with that actually being sufficient for human usage, I believe.

To get regolith for this at Venus, air braking might be used from solar orbing objects.  Alternately mining the surface of Venus might become possible.

As the multihull structures would in effect be multi-generation ships, they do not have to travel to Mars in any hurry.

They might be able to sail on Photons, or the Solar wind.  Alternately the Neumann Drive could run on Carbon.  Or an Oxygen Mass Driver might be used.

But if it takes centuries to get to Mars, that should not be a concern.  They would be worlds in themselves, within a solar system full of such worlds.

So, some partial tenuous solutions to advanced terraform methods that might be used.

Obviously Titan offers a chance at something like this as well, for having lots of Nitrogen and Methane and water ice.

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Aluminum Ion Batteries: Fresh Discovery, Elon Musk drop bombshell Tesla's NEW Aluminum-Ion Battery with  5 - min Charging!

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VAMGZC

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VAMGZC

I think I have become conscious of something.  Where the Left is goofing up, is they are trying to deaminize Industrial/Technological people.  Trying to use Guilt and Shame, to gain power over the more intelligent.  This is a religious method of social regulation.  They tried to shame us for Cobalt, after all we were responsible for the suffering of children in the Congo.  Similar for Nickle. The Lithium becomes a control device.

And then these people just figure out how to use Aluminum.  Possibly a better product.

A conflict between the hive mind people repeats people and those who have creative intelligence.

It begins to become possible to understand what the globalist people are about.  They mesh with unproductive royalty, and "Old Time Religion".  Really "Old Time Religion" not so much like what American developed.

I was quite comfortable with America's ability to be compatible with the British Royals, but at this point, I have an uneasy feeling about all of those, (Not just those named people), who see America and think that the best thing to do with it is to subordinate it.

Of course we wall rip the temple supports down before we allow the American people to be taken captive anymore.

When the Left/Royals use religious methods to regulate the societies to try to make servants of the innovative, this is a thing not to tolerate.  Of course I will claim anyway that such a use of religious regulation is not legitimate from a God anyway.

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In the case of Venus, further manipulations that might be considered are;
1) Add Methane to the atmosphere, and indirectly, perhaps, Tholen's.
2) Use particles to warm the planet that have been proposed for Mars: https://www.impactlab.com/2024/08/17/wa … e-thought/
3) Add a Magnetic Field to L1, perhaps, as has been proposed for Mars.

1) Adding Methane would be a greenhouse effect, but the creation of Tholen's may cool the planet.  But both of these may block UV light, changing the chemistry of the planet.  This may inhibit the synthesis of Sulfuric Acid but promote the creation of Sulfur Oxides and water vapor.
2) This one will heat the planet and cause it to swell up.
3) This may help avoid atmospheric losses to the solar wind.

Historically, one proposed method to terraform Venus would be to slam an asteroid into the planet to swell the atmosphere, and make the atmosphere float off, and to then have a thinner atmosphere in 1000 to 10,000 years.

I do not approve of that, but if we could swell up the atmosphere of Venus, then something like Ascender might work better.  If the atmosphere swelled out to the limits of the Hill Sphere of Venus, then the atmosphere would likely start to be pulled off by the solar wind.  However, if we needed to we could put a protective magnetic field into L1 for Venus.

While I am hoping that Ascender could travel to the edge of the edge Hill Sphere of Venus where gravity will be much less limiting, also I am hoping to "Harvest" the Atmosphere of Venus, as a raw material to turn into resources for the Solar System.

Things that might make us want to limit this process would be we don't want to make the surface too hot for robots, and we may not want to swell the atmosphere all the way out to the edge of the Hill Sphere of Venus.  Too swollen would be if the atmosphere starts leaking off into space too much.

Given Robots and this process it may be possible to canister the atmosphere of Venus and deliver it to Mars and perhaps Jovian Moons.

But if we find life in the clouds of Venus, I will say we will not do this.

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(th) has had a comment for me to respond to: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 47#p232447

I believe I don't know as much about rectenna's as I might want to.  But I have supposed that it might be a bit like chicken wire?  Well it is certainly more complex than that, but if it could be incorporated into the walls of the Ascender, and also collect power, perhaps that could work well.

On Earth the microwave source could be on the ground.  If you sent that intense of a microwave to the ground from orbit it might cook people.

On Venus I expect it would be in orbit.  If it could deliver 10 times as much power as solar would to the Ascender rectenna, then perhaps it could run a VASIMR engine.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_ … sma_Rocket

It could possible expel Nitrogen or CO2 from the atmosphere of Venus.

But maybe the Chemical/Electric engines spoken of could be made to work.

People inside of the Ascender would need something like a Faraday Cage to be protected from the Microwaves???

At least I think that is barking up the right tree, more or less.

As for the Hydrogen flotation gas, perhaps that could be superheated with a different frequency of microwaves, to reduce its mass and increase flotation as the device would rise higher in the atmosphere.  But you would have to not damage the Ascender walls or other parts.  That might be possible if the Hydrogen was to low density that it did not overheat the Ascender walls.

Maybe I have it half right?

As for Space Elevators, Venus could have Rotovators, or Skyhooks, but not a ground anchored Space Elevator.  At least that is what I have read.

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More claims on White Hydrogen: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE  Quote:

Accidental Helium find in North Minnesota recently. This stuff does not seem to obey the rules of petroleum and Natural Gas.

Of course this is a gift we should want.

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There is a video in this post from elsewhere, that talks about data centers on Mars.  I want to review it again and discuss it: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 31#p232431
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Pause.............

So, if ~50% of the surface of Mars were a combination of solar panels, radiator, and canal, these could be used in part to power data centers and cool them.

Of course near the poles you might deal with large reservoirs of melted water.  At first covered with ice, but perhaps later open water.  Would people care if the reservoirs boiled and evaporated?  As long as you kept melting more ice from the polar ice caps it should not matter, as evaporation should result in precipitation, much of it directly back to the polar ice caps.

And then beyond ground solar panels you could have massive installations of orbital solar, and also nuclear fission and we hope nuclear fusion.

Mars could be made very valuable under those circumstances.

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New asteroids in association with Venus.  That interests me: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1HkVhe

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So, that is interesting to me.

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Well, we know that Starships can blow up and take test equipment with them.  If it was all taxpayer money, as per NASA, there would be major concerns.

However this video might encourage people due to the amount of revenues that SpaceX appears to be able to tap into: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … a22af4dfe6  Quote:

I will suggest yet another thing, Platinum family metals on the Moon: https://dnyuz.com/2025/06/15/is-there-a … -the-moon/  Quote:

So, if you could perfect Starship, enough that it will generally not explode during a mission, and if the refilling's are to be 3 for a mission to the Moon, delivering processing equipment to the Moon would be very valuable.

Then you would not need that big of a ship to bring the platnum family metals back to Earth.

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I feel that I am violating my Peter Principal level to post here, but I do have some thoughts to say.

The COPV problem that is thought to have triggered the explosion, has to be fixed, even if SpaceX were to go to an expendable 2nd stage.  One though I have seen is to go to metal tanks that are more reliable, but heavier.  The Starship is said to be expanding it's payload capability so metal tanks might be sensible as perhaps the extra weight can be justified.

We also have to consider that their may be industrial espionage going on at this time.  It is not the greatest probability but it is possible.  Any number of entities around the world could have reason.

And Elon Musk got a lot of hate.  Old space loves these resets, where all the sudden the plans are changed.  Since the space shuttle, this has happened at least twice?  The reset then sets the table with more pork for the piggies.

The saying that 11 refilling's are needed may not be true.  I have recently seen mention of 3 refilling's as the power of the Superheavy and Starship are being expanded.

Even though I think those things, I actually am attracted to what the Angry Astronaut, suggests, at least in part.  But if they are doing test missions, there is no reason not to test heat shield methods.  We are not yet at the point of serious lifting of mass to LEO for a mission.  The Heat Shield although not properly reusable, does seem to allow the ships to "land" if they make it to sub-orbit properly.

I understand that the system is now expected to be able to lift 200 tons to orbit.  Or at least that is said.  The raptor 3's are supposed to have more lift, and the hot staging method now is said to provide more payload capacity.

Until a need for disposable Starships arises such as a mission to the Moon, there is no particular reason to stop testing the full Starship, because they are not even getting serious about deploying Star links yet, just dummy units.

But I do support the idea of an "Expendable" upper stage Starship.  For now it could be disposed of in the pacific, but in the future I would think it should be repurposed in an orbit of some kind.

And so I do support the sort of thing that the Angry Astronaut has suggested or spoken of with various space vendors being employed to provide a collection of talents.

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At this moment where faith in rockets may be challenged, I guess this is interesting to look at again: "John Powell, This Airship Might Change How We Reach Space Forever!"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdfTCBRwijI
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From time to time, I see some article about a lightweight material 10 times as strong as steel, so maybe someday.

I would be most interested in the 3rd stage for Mars, Venus, Titan, Pluto, to drop down and capture atmosphere and then bring that to orbit.

Again, not ready to use yet, but with accumulation of knowledge maybe some day.

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Rather than solar panels, I am interested in microwaves.  The projectors could be on the ground, in which case it might be OK for Earth.  For Mars and Venus, perhaps the solar power plants in orbit could beam microwaves to the ascender 3rd stage.

Presuming that this outfit can get their hybrid chemical/electric engines up to needed function then maybe it could work.

For Earth you might not want to send very powerful microwaves down from orbit.  So send from the ground up.  A power source on the ground might be Fusion or maybe a less intense microwave from orbit down to the ground.

For Mars and Venus, it may be possible to beam power directly from orbit but care not to fry cloud cities would be needed on for Venus, or surface installations on Mars.

Titan might work with solar power from orbit, but the mirrors would be huge.

Titan, Triton, Pluto, would probably need Fusion power.

As I am only speculating on the 3rd stage, my intention would be to capture atmosphere to orbit.

However, someday with new materials and inventions they might get all 3 stages going for 1 or more worlds.

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I have been thinking about a collection of things.  Eating flies, Vitamin D, Vitamin B12, Iodine.  Hair on Humans, Pigmentation.

To me eating fly's is a gross thing but eating magots would be as well, but in post #4, a thread deals in that.

As far as cycles go, I think this fits into the seasons of the year, when there are seasons.

Do humans eat flies?  https://blog.entomologist.net/which-cou … sects.html
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And I have read that Chimpanzees do eat bugs including flies.

I have thought about it and if you were starving and did not have a germ theory, you might benefit from flies.  Most animals cannot do so.  A dog might snap at flies that are buzzing around their heads, and sometime catch one.  Cattle like animals must endure them, maybe accidentally ingesting one with grass.  But these animals without hands and arms to slap at flies, can only mostly suffer under the attention of flies.

The human with bare hairless skin can be attractive to some insects.  The salt in sweat is attractive, and it may even be that we have a smell that will attract them.  There are some theories that humans smell unattractive to most carnivores.  The conversation on the web does not strongly support that.  But anyway, humans as a attractant of insects that could be consumed, I think that is interesting.

It could be argued that hair on top of the head may serve as a sunshade, but of course many men lose their hair over time.  Some insects like sandflies/horseflies can be captured trying to get into your hair though.

It is interesting that winter, may eliminate flies as a option.

I am just speculating that Homo Erectus might have eaten flies, and may have been attractive to them.  Some such may have had no notion that they could get sick from it.

In some small isolated populations there might not have been a parasite cycle.  It may not have evolved at those times.

These could have been a source of Vitamin B12 if a population was somehow mostly vegetarian.

Recently Subway Travel has become repulsive for various reasons, but Covid-19 was one.  With human population, large, like a random number generator, the emergence of more pests seems possible.  Of course, Covid-19 was to some degree, maybe even to a larger degree than is thought intentional.  There are those who support accelerationism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism
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The use of humanoid robots and self driving cars may reduce the chances that such idiots can effectively poison our social structures with pathogens.  But they will be a social disruption themselves.

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/history-of-cretinism/
I have run across talk on the internet that indicates that Chimpanzees may avoid it by consuming algae.
https://reasons.org/explore/blogs/the-c … -for-algae
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An impression I have is that the algae might have what is needed to avoid Cretinism.

Some people think that the Pygmies are the root stock of humans.  They lived in forests where some shade allowed them to have a medium tone of skin.  If humans did actually come "Out of Africa", then I wonder why northern peoples to some degree became hairy?

Body Hair is easy to get confused about, I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_hair
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So, yes, the distribution of sweat glands as well.

Little bit of racism here, not intended to be of harm: https://teachnthrive.com/history-passag … body-hair/  Quote:

So, that is strange, I would have expected northern people to be more hairy.  So, therefore I do not know enough about this.  I don't know if they needed to be more masculine due to lots of bloodshed?

You just about have to wear clothing to live in the true north, perhaps that helps to understand.

I guess I will say that I don't know.

But I would be interested in what portion of the historical human diet, could have involved insects that are attracted to perspiration and to blood, and body odor.

I would not expect that to involve things like grasshoppers and ants.

But the insects which ever type likely could be seasonal.

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