New Mars Forums

Robots as hygienic devices should be a large thing.  For instance, while a room might be not occupied by humans, a UV light could be used, even while a robot was working inside of it.  So, this could be done at a hospital periodically to rooms which would be vacated for a period of time.

I will struggle not to trip wire words that allow exploitation of a conversation by insincere or ignorant people.  The problem of AI assistants has recently become a conversation issue.  Grok 4 Ani for instance.  Those better than me have realized that eventually humanoid robots will have something like this software.

I will make it simple.  If you were to marry someone in the future or mate with them, would you want them to be full of germs?  (The nasty sort), from their previous history.

So, you see, actually fertility may go down from substitution, but may go up from health benefits.  And it may protect the innocent from mating with a person who has had poor lifestyle as their earlier life.  The relatively innocent and decent in history may be protected to some degree from the poor decisions their partner has made.

Is that hygienic enough for those who might be offended?

So, it is not all down side.

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https://phys.org/news/2025-07-mars-glac … ously.html
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Here is one possible low latitude glacier.  Maybe it also has a high ice content: https://scitechdaily.com/stunning-disco … d-on-mars/  Quote:

If so, then Mars may be a more promising planet than has been thought.

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You can thank the "Service Industry" for that.

A story of American survival is told as how the south agreed to sell the industrial north of the USA to China, to get cheap labor and undercut the union movement.

Taken as a cold-blooded decision, actually I approve of it.  It pulled China away from the Soviet Union, and so made our survival as a nation more possible, and it undercut the unions.  I have limited approval of unions myself.  But I don't want a dictatorship of the proletariat.  I approve of cutting-edge companies, such as Elon Musk fosters being non-union, but only if they are cutting edge to benefit the society.

I worked at a research facility for quite a time.  I can assure you that feather bedding is just as much in the white collar side as for the blue collar side.  But a guy like Elon Musk will favor none of it.  If a company is not formulated to make a comfy chair for the white-collar elite, then I can better accept a non-union character for it.

Minimum wage has it's value.  Training jobs for the young, 16 to 26 I might think.  For the retired, maybe extra cash might make life better, and some of them may want something to do.

For those who are challenged by some reduced ability, even then a part time job may offer dignity and some spending change.

But for jobs that offer a "Living Wage", there must be an economy which can be productive.  You cannot share a pie if no pie is made.

The service industry is just not productive enough to employ everyone in a "Living Wage".  You must have the amplification that technological-industrial structure can offer.

So, Trump is doing the correct thing now.

I have an ambiguous feeling about Ronald Reagan.  He did rally the nation, and he made the dirty deal which rusted the rust belt and perhaps preserved America, and may have contributed to the collapse of the Soviet "Block".  But he did arrogantly think of common people as unworthy, and gleefully offered all of these low productivity "Service Jobs".

Service jobs mean servant jobs, and in the way of Darwin, eventually slavery.

Thankfully we are beyond that and can reindustrialize and become even more technologically proficient.

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I specifically address Spacenut.  In judging me, please read my content itself, and do not rely on "Reports".

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This is said without hatred, and not so much resentment of you but of what you were attached to.

A society on Mars will need to be technological.  The Earth's slave cultures will not be able to sustain that I believe.  So, we are in my opinion in a battle again against human slavery.

I will offer some terminology:  Getto Master - Slave Master, Getto Lord - Slave Lord.

The contrast between the two members of the American Civil War.  And I will point out that not all slave owners were so called "White".

The European experience with so called "Black" slavery was centered to some large extent on the kingdom of Kongo in Africa, and the Portuguese.

https://www.academia.edu/3099677/Slaver … f%20slaves.

Many of the so called Northern so called "Whites" did not want slavery, as slave owners could displace them from land which they needed for survival.

In the present slave era, which I judge started in 1929, it is the northern Getto which is the slaving device used to displace industrious peoples from their control of a location.

Again, a Getto Master or Getto Lord does not have to be of a lighter skin tone, but it may be that colorism does exist.

I will say my opinion as to why African Americans (Who are not actually African), and so called Hispanic people (Who are often dominantly so called "White"), in the male gender are tilting more towards the republican party, you might consider that at least in their subconscious minds that Getto culture is very much against their gender, unless they are of the Master or Lord classes.

I saw a woman one time explain why a city burning is promoted.  Well, it gets the peasants out of the burned out area and then the Getto Masters / Getto Lords can come in and buy up the property for pennies on the dollar as the saying goes.

So, the Getto is a special "Baby Moma" place.  It is not a place where the common man is to be respected.

Here is a love song for Getto men: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VAMGZC

Oops! Well actually, it is my house.  You get out.

Here is another love song: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=WRVORC

It really could be true that I was or am now "No Good".  I am nothing very special or of a perfection of any kind.

Hypnosis is said by some to be the repeat of a notion.  So is Advertisement.

If we are being given hate songs, then the males may have a low opinion of themselves and the females may also be brainwashed to think the same thing.

But now, please think if you can if there is a song where a female is singing the love of a man?
I am not aware of much.  I do not specifically attribute this to females, rather I suspect this comes from an elite who like to run Getto Cultures.

I will refrain from attaching a video as it contains what we consider to be profanity at this time, however I will recommend it. 

You may look it up, as I have said many people may be offended by parts of it as what we consider in this era to be profanity: "everything is mate suppression

Whatifalthist
"

So, you see, I consider that we are in a cultural war against a criminal force.  And interference with communications between those who do not like slavery, does cause me to resent.

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So, who has the higher moral ground now?  Mars cannot be populated successfully by a breed of elite people users, with no respect for technological skills and who despise the common man.

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Yes, I like that Calliban.  I started getting a bit lost on the abnormal sun orbit though.  I understand lagites and statites, to some extent, so a second viewing will help.

Even though I have ideas and training on electrical and electronics, also I think I could do a do-over for that as well.  But I grasp the direction of this thing I had more primitive notions of a lesser machine using electric rockets.

At this time, I look at the potential assets we might have a method to grasp and try to thin it down to the best collection.

If we are fortunate the Moon may at least offer significant water enough for initial efforts as has been hoped.

From there to Mars, but in my view not to hide under a rock, only, but struggle with and finally take root to it.  But in the sky, we have the almost miraculous, Phobos and Deimos.  If they do not have the Hydrogen and Carbon that might be desired, then they will give much else and for a time Mars itself can donate Hydrogen and Carbon, perhaps carried to orbit as Methane and reacted with rocks with solar heat to produce desired results. 

And perhaps we can do something like T.A.R.S, in Martian orbit with materials from those moons.

And in my little world then on to 10 Hygea to do similar.

For such a small world we might use a combination of materials of a compressive force, and materials of a tensile force, to make a road from the surface of 10 Hygea into orbits of 10 Hygea.

But we may have yet another device for our road.  Fluid filled volumes.

Perhaps we could call these "Space Noodles", (Or not): https://www.sciencealert.com/this-20-km … into-orbit  Image Quote:

So, the structure as a whole may be in part a tensile space elevator, and a pneumatic tower.  Instead of a singular shell, we might make a network of "Space Noodles" resembling the tissues of a vascular plant perhaps.

Pneumatic beams that are as supports and retainers for a "Shell-Dome".  The shapes can be various.  But at first just a relatively simple "Road".

To weigh the lower parts down to attract gravity these may be partially filled with water perhaps.

I think at this point, we have a paintbrush with various options available.  I think we could be careful not to obsess about a certain type but to sleep on it some, and see what may emerge in our minds.

On the idea of using spin energy, we have perhaps a bell curve of "Utility".  It we try to make it too high performing when then may have to get into exotic and expensive options.

For my part this spin energy is like an inverse rocket equation to some degree.  If bulk water and CO2 can be lofted in tanks and then released, we have a relatively simple option of a steam boiler propulsion while the payload is in the distance of sight for lasers.  The laser propulsion is yet another wish that has been tried to rise in the Earth's atmosphere, but here for this purpose it may serve well.  We have rocket propulsion not using on-board power for the most part.  As you get out of range of the lasers, (rather rapidly), then if you have chemical rockets you can then use those.  Then finally an indirect electric propulsion from solar panels. 

I would say a microwave oven to boil water or CO2, to do course corrections.  This is not to be a major propulsion device, so don't get to bent out of shape.  The combination of Spin/Steam-Laser/Chemical/Microwave-Steam will push the solar cells inward in the solar system so that Mars, Earth, Venus, or Mercury would be approached the solar energy would be significant.

If we have a big tank of Water and CO2, as we approach the Moon, lasers may again activate the Steam-Laser propulsion method to seek to capture the spacecraft to a accessible orbit.  Ideally exhaust from the craft would impact the Moon.  Even better the shadowed craters.  Some of the exhaust might become recoverable as ice.

Should the Moon ever acquire a very thin O2 atmosphere, this might make such a capture more likely.

It seems that laser technology is improving.  Also Tesla reportedly has association with the creation of Aluminum based batteries.   A power source could charge up batteries in order to give a very strong source of power for the intermittent laser events.

At some point we have to ask if we could get bulk Water with CO2 from a world like 10 Hygea, cheaper than to lift it even by space elevator from Earth, or from Mars.  If it is true then this is the thing to do.  If space elevators emerge for Earth, and Mars, perhaps they will mostly be for passengers.

While we may hope to lift regolith from the Moon, I do wonder if we could move water and CO2 to terrestrial crossing asteroids and retrieve that material easier?

I do not oppose a settlement effort and struggle for Mars, but think it would be much better if we could also explore this set of exchanges to find our way out into the solar system.

The Moon with large amounts of Water and CO2 would be much more valuable than it is now.  And eventually it may be possible to get lots of Nitrogen from other worlds.

So some things to ponder.

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Another thing I have been considering over the last set of days, is the re-method of a convergence of SpaceX and Rocket Lab technologies.

There seem to be some murmurings of regret for Stainless Steel.  But I feel that we can have the best of two worlds.

Rocket Labs Hungry Hippo, can also be the SpaceX "Alligator Jaw" method.

Two and 3 stage options exist.

3 Stage: Super Heavy and Starship are used, but Starship does not go fully orbital.  In high sub-orbit, Starship opens its "Alligator Jaws" and out comes a enlarged 2nd stage of Neutron, which then goes to orbit.

Super Heavy perhaps landed on a barge, not too far away from the launch facility.  Starship Sub-Orbital, lands about 1/2 or 1/3 the way around Earth.

The Starship will launch itself empty, with little or no cargo, and sub-orbital to return to the original launch site.

The Lightweight Neutron upper stage will go to orbit with a payload, or to go to the Moon even.  It might even be joined by a capsule of some kind if human return is desired.

2 Stage: Either Superheavy or Starship are the 1st stage.  In the case of Super Heavy, then jaw type fairings might be considered.  In the case of Starship, jaw type fairings will be used.

It can be noted that in this method the Starship will not go that much sub-orbital, so , the thermal stresses for reentry will be reduced, and so the heat shield requirements might be relaxed somewhat.  In both cases the Super Heavy or the Starship as 1st stages will likely land on barges or return to the launch facility.

So, if Rocket Lab can make it's 2 stage Neutron rocket work, then the future may allow the blending of the value of Stainless-Steel methods and lightweight Carbon Composite methods.

As for the Carbon Composite, upper stages, if they are not compatible with repurpose somewhere, then they could be rendered for their chemicals.  For instance, landing on the Moon, and with the access to polar water, they could be converted in part to be methane fuel.  And of course, the Moon could supply Oxygen.

So, I think that convergence will offer a great deal.

But this does not prevent the use of Starship as orbital, and stainless steel in method.

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I will give a limited apology for my part.

I regret having produced a social stress on this site, and will seek to avoid trying to process such conversations here.

I hope it will be understood that my historical way of thinking about things like how an electronic circuit or a process control works, made it seem to me that we could do such an analysis of social structures.

But this site allows other types of discussions that have value.  If it can process 90% of topics and has to reject 10%, I can live with that as it has value.

Please regard my deviation into the dangerous 10% as a mistake which I hope not to repeat for the sake of the 90%.

Thanks, Void.

I want to lodge a complaint against you (th) and Spacenut, based on your post.

I understand that the authority of this site can be arbitrary if it wants to for its own reasons.

This implies that I did something immoral:

In my view, I was analyzing social processes as you might try to do science with it.  I have my opinions as to what real factors are in the structure of society.  I understand that there are means of finance and power, that some entities feel are their property to defend.  I don't necessarily agree that they should be indulged in this, but I understand their motivations.

In order to keep the peace, I withdrew that which apparently offended such entities.  And that is OK, as life can often be about getting along by compromises.  And some of the said entities are actually dangerous, and capable of evil deeds.

I recognize that my presence here is more of a privilege than a right, but I feel that you have slandered me.  Just what does this mean?  Quote:

This comment implies that I have a history as a bad actor.  I don't see it that way, and would like to have evidence presented, of wrongdoing if I have done wrong.  Perhaps I could learn from instruction in this if learning is required.

This is not the first time you have "Slammed" down on me.  For instance, when I suggested that there could be such a thing as a Semi-Cycler which could on occasion stop at Mars and then resume being a cycler after that.

I found that to be very disrespectful.  Obviously if you have the energy and the method and the desire you can do that.  But you indicated that I was promoting something that was entirely false.

So, this will help my psyche a bit, it is not nice for you to try to get alpha on me in this manner.  It is psychologically damaging to be put in that manner.  For me to repress my resentment is not heathy.

I will be happy to be done with this site if that is the cure for the problem.

No apology needed, I just want you to know, that I consider your manner to be very Improper as per my cultural references.  You don't have to adhere to my cultural references, but if we are incompatible, then lets be done with it.

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I certainly hope that this will be actual in the future or something like it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyuCOG … =SpaceCore  Quote:

The part I like best is that they intend to have both artificial gravity and microgravity in the same space station.  Microgravity can be done in the hub.

That is by far the best of both worlds.

I think also that deep spacecraft could be fashioned on this structure.

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Well, we may know within a few years about this one: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE  Quote:

Time will tell.

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You never know, maybe it could have use on Mars or Titan.

Some notions have it that the crust of Titan may to some degree consist of thermally insulating Clathrate of Methane and Water.

If so, then deeper down the heat could be significant.  I would start with a notion of Methane as a working fluid.  But it is a maybe.

However, a Titan with a large amount of geothermal energy and a thick atmosphere has to be attractive even without fusion power.

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Forgive me Calliban in advance: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
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It is a very long video, and I am only about 1/3rd the way though it and they are so far taking about actual fusion.  I am leaning a lot about what won't work.  They really have not touched on "Room Temperature Fusion" yet.

But I am learning some of the stupid things not to try per danger or failure.

I want to go to the gym and have food (I am fasting), so I am dumping this here.  I do not know if they will actually present any important new information.

I intend to finish this later.

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Where a torus might be modified into a pseudo disk, I think I see the idea of a "Teardrop" shape.

And this might have merit for Charon, although Charon is of a considerable size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charon_(moon)

The far side of Charon could host a teardrop shaped shell with space elevator support as Pluto/Charon/Teardrop Shell will spin about.  In this case Pluto itself can host the volatile substances.

This shell shape is not Teardrop, but I think it conveys the idea:

It is a characteristic of icy worlds, that they may be more or less differentiated.  This method may allow accessing the desired materials even so.  In general a distribution of materials is typically desired.

Where in the case of a torus shell, attempts are made to mimic the Moons shadowed craters, going out far enough, a Teardrop method may do, as the exposed surfaces of the icy worlds can remain cold enough to hold on to Volatile materials.

It could be that a scheme like this could be used for tiny icy moons as well, perhaps even for gas giant and ice giant worlds.   It might be possible to work with L1 and L2 of these, as the anchor point of the elevation of the shell.

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